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This Week in Games -The New Testament


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FeelMyBlade



Joined: 11 Aug 2012
Posts: 155
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 11:07 am Reply with quote
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Testament's non-binaryness has been confirmed on both the English and Japanese sides of Arc System Works, which unfortunately hasn't stopped some internet reactionaries from pitching the usual fits about “pronouns.” After, all, Guilty Gear is a series free of “woke” nonsense that's never had any kind of gender-non-conforming characters before.


I've been following the Japanese Guilty Gear scene for ages and haven't heard this at all. Do you perchance have a source? Testament was always considered a genderless character in Japan, specifically a hermaphrodite given he was always said to possess traits from both genders. The English localization as far as I know has always called him male though for simplicity's sake. The most recent interview I could find from an ArcSys rep continues to call him "genderless" on a stream so I don't think anything has changed on that front.

I would be wary of considering anything in English localization as canon, let alone voice actors. The whole Ramlethal recasting thing was entirely a product of the American localization that wasn't a factor in Japan.
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b-dragon



Joined: 21 Apr 2021
Posts: 494
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 12:20 pm Reply with quote
"Agender is the best word. Neither male nor female. Testament is Testament," said Ozawa, later adding, "In English, you would say they and them." (Third party translator)

This is from Arc System Works marketing rep, Riku Ozawa during ArcRevo. The bigger change is perhaps that the English website uses they/them specifically, rather than defaulting to masculine anymore. So in this case its less that the character changed, and more that the localization is finally correct.

Also, I'm not sure I understand what you're looking for a source for tbh- just to confirm, I'm pretty sure the comment about GG never having non-conforming characters before is intended to be read as oozing sarcasm.
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Bvick00



Joined: 17 Jan 2022
Posts: 47
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 12:56 pm Reply with quote
Congrats on getting the Egret II mini arcade cabinet, Heidi!
Dragalia Lost EOS : Sigh Sad Dragalia Lost player over here, been playing the game infrequently since 2019 and now I have to add another game to my ever growing list of dead mobile games. Thank goodness the game is at least ending on a later date after the main story conclusion (not to dissimilar to how Mobius Final Fantasy ended) since the previous game that died, Tales of Crestoria, didn't even get to conclude it's story in game. Back to Dragalia Lost, it's the biggest game on my phone - 8.84 GB and I'm currently on Chapter 10, so I got some time to catch up to the current chapter before the story's conclusion in July.
Testament : Nice to see this character back in action, interestingly their JP voice is feminine sounding while the EN voice is masculine sounding and they both fit Testament extremely well!
DNF Dual Release Date : June 28th - finally a proper release date
Virtua Fighter 5 US Tekken Collab : Looking at the thumbnail, I thought it would be a character crossover, but it's actually outfits that look more akin to skins, so to speak. Anyway it's nice to see that Tekken 7 HUD.
Gotta Protectors : Looks cute and I'm a sucker for 8 bit and 16 bit games, so I will definitely check it out
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Guile



Joined: 18 Jun 2013
Posts: 595
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 1:06 pm Reply with quote
b-dragon wrote:
"Agender is the best word. Neither male nor female. Testament is Testament," said Ozawa, later adding, "In English, you would say they and them." (Third party translator)

This is from Arc System Works marketing rep, Riku Ozawa during ArcRevo. The bigger change is perhaps that the English website uses they/them specifically, rather than defaulting to masculine anymore. So in this case its less that the character changed, and more that the localization is finally correct.


To me that doesn't contradict the established canon that Testament is genderless.
Genderless and non-binary are two different things. Non-binary is basically someone who says they identify as a man one day and a female the next. Genderless is biological and not applicable to humans naturally, or most non-microscopic organisms. I assumed the localization used male pronouns because he's still a man, just one that went through horrific experiments and body modifications. Testament was a man who got abducted by the Conclave and converted into a bioweapon and then enslaved. It's seems purely semantics if you call him a guy, a hermaphrodite, a female, neither, or anything else after what happened to him during gear conversion, similarly how people will assign a gender to robots or other creatures like legendary Pokemon depending how they see them despite technically being genderless.

What happened to Testament was basically conversion therapy if you try to apply a gender lens to it, which just makes this thing way more uncomfortable and strange. I'm not sure why anyone would want to claim that as representative of their identity.
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AksaraKishou



Joined: 16 May 2015
Posts: 1414
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 1:37 pm Reply with quote
Guile wrote:
b-dragon wrote:
"Agender is the best word. Neither male nor female. Testament is Testament," said Ozawa, later adding, "In English, you would say they and them." (Third party translator)

This is from Arc System Works marketing rep, Riku Ozawa during ArcRevo. The bigger change is perhaps that the English website uses they/them specifically, rather than defaulting to masculine anymore. So in this case its less that the character changed, and more that the localization is finally correct.


To me that doesn't contradict the established canon that Testament is genderless.
Genderless and non-binary are two different things. Non-binary is basically someone who says they identify as a man one day and a female the next. Genderless is biological and not applicable to humans naturally, or most non-microscopic organisms. I assumed the localization used male pronouns because he's still a man, just one that went through horrific experiments and body modifications. Testament was a man who got abducted by the Conclave and converted into a bioweapon and then enslaved. It's seems purely semantics if you call him a guy, a hermaphrodite, a female, neither, or anything else after what happened to him during gear conversion, similarly how people will assign a gender to robots or other creatures like legendary Pokemon depending how they see them despite technically being genderless.

What happened to Testament was basically conversion therapy if you try to apply a gender lens to it, which just makes this thing way more uncomfortable and strange. I'm not sure why anyone would want to claim that as representative of their identity.


And i'm not sure why we're still taking about it. They/Them. End of story.
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Shenl742



Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 1524
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 1:43 pm Reply with quote
Guile wrote:
b-dragon wrote:
"Agender is the best word. Neither male nor female. Testament is Testament," said Ozawa, later adding, "In English, you would say they and them." (Third party translator)

This is from Arc System Works marketing rep, Riku Ozawa during ArcRevo. The bigger change is perhaps that the English website uses they/them specifically, rather than defaulting to masculine anymore. So in this case its less that the character changed, and more that the localization is finally correct.


To me that doesn't contradict the established canon that Testament is genderless.
Genderless and non-binary are two different things. Non-binary is basically someone who says they identify as a man one day and a female the next. Genderless is biological and not applicable to humans naturally, or most non-microscopic organisms. I assumed the localization used male pronouns because he's still a man, just one that went through horrific experiments and body modifications. Testament was a man who got abducted by the Conclave and converted into a bioweapon and then enslaved. It's seems purely semantics if you call him a guy, a hermaphrodite, a female, neither, or anything else after what happened to him during gear conversion, similarly how people will assign a gender to robots or other creatures like legendary Pokemon depending how they see them despite technically being genderless.

What happened to Testament was basically conversion therapy if you try to apply a gender lens to it, which just makes this thing way more uncomfortable and strange. I'm not sure why anyone would want to claim that as representative of their identity.


Gender identity and biological sex are two separate things

Like, why are you so focused on "Well, actually..."-ing this?
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whiskeyii



Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 2266
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 1:48 pm Reply with quote
Guile wrote:

Genderless and non-binary are two different things. Non-binary is basically someone who says they identify as a man one day and a female the next.


While I don’t know the lore, you’re mixing up terms here. The translated word, “agender”, is a gender identity that falls under the non-binary umbrella, which is quite a bit broader than “feels male one day, female another.” The actual definition is closer to “does not feel exclusively male or female, period.” What you’re describing as “genderless” appears to be a total lack of physical genitalia, which has no bearing on gender identity, as gender is a social construct, not a biological one. Thus, Ozawa and the localization team are correct: a non-binary person would use they/them pronouns.
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ANN_Lynzee
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 02 May 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 1:49 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Non-binary is basically someone who says they identify as a man one day and a female the next. Genderless is biological and not applicable to humans naturally, or most non-microscopic organisms.


First, that's not the definition of non-binary, it is one possible identification under that term but it is not limited to that. Study link: https://biblio.ugent.be/publication/7279758

Abstract quote:
Quote:
Some people have a gender which is neither male nor female and may identify as both male and female at one time, as different genders at different times, as no gender at all, or dispute the very idea of only two genders. The umbrella terms for such genders are genderqueer' or non-binary' genders.


For those using the term 'hermaphrodite' or "genderless", the correct term you're looking for is 'intersex' and is applicable to individuals who are born with or develop physical traits of both sexes. There are a multitude of biological reasons someone may be intersex. A person who is intersex is not necessarily non-binary or vice versa. The sentence that both "genderless [intersex] is biological" and "not applicable to humans naturally" is both factually incorrect and nonsensical. Also asexuality and intersexuality both occur outside of humans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex_(biology)
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Bvick00



Joined: 17 Jan 2022
Posts: 47
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 1:52 pm Reply with quote
b-dragon wrote:
Non-binary is basically someone who says they identify as a man one day and a female the next.

Isn't Non-binary identifying as neither male nor female?
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wolf10



Joined: 23 Jan 2016
Posts: 922
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 2:06 pm Reply with quote
whiskeyii wrote:
Thus, Ozawa and the localization team are correct: a non-binary person would use they/them pronouns.
Well, non-binary persons can use pronouns besides they/them (such as e/em, or the occasional interchangeable he/she), so perhaps the takeaway should be "these are the pronouns that have been chosen for Testament moving forward" and not "this is objectively correct for any non-binary identity and therefore applies to Testament." It sounds like in Japanese they're simply not using pronouns at all (that's what is meant by "Testament is Testament").

I'm not much of a fighting game player, but I looked up Testament's old design and I have to say, I am really digging the new look. Very classy.
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GNPixie



Joined: 25 Jul 2018
Posts: 316
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 2:36 pm Reply with quote
Re the whole Testament thing:

Gears have technically been an "It" since Day 0 since they're technically combinations of magic and science, with very few and rare exceptions in the early games.spoiler[ Sol being the big one.] They only really started to experiment with latter titles. Testament is more of a course correction since early GG was rather infamous for its kerfuffles translation wise but to quote someone I saw post it on another site, it definitely feels like a SF Poison situation given the Japanese trailer where Testament (voiced by Yu Kobayashi!) explicitly uses "watashi", which is commonly used with regards to feminine and female characters.

Compared to the English trailer, they seem to be going with a completely different take but both are technically right, given the character and what Gears are.

Re: Draglia Lost

I really hope they revisit it or even just do a single player version honestly. The art and music are too good to be dumped in the Gacha Graveyard Dump.
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AQuin1904



Joined: 13 Nov 2021
Posts: 270
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 3:16 pm Reply with quote
GNPixie wrote:
"watashi", which is commonly used with regards to feminine and female characters.

Please be more careful with descriptions of language. 私 is used in formal or semiformal situations regardless of gender and is still the most common first-person pronoun in Japanese. Its informal use has been increasingly shifting toward women in recent years (and has given rise to the distinctively feminine form "atashi"), but it's still what you'll hear from most people in a work environment, etc., and men who stick to it in casual conversation aren't exactly rare. Even if you're limiting this to fiction, unambiguously male characters who exclusively use "watashi" are fairly common. They're often relatively formal or standoffish (take Mitsurugi/Edgeworth from Gyaktuen Saiban/Ace Attorney, for example) or have a reserved or understated demeanor.

As far as Testament goes, I know that they've been described as intersex (両性 or 両性具有) in interviews and books long before this, and also something about "transcending their humanity," but is this the first time they've been officially described as agender (無性別) as well?
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SciasSlash



Joined: 09 Jun 2015
Posts: 120
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 9:13 pm Reply with quote
If you look at Testament's bios, they have a ton of new hobbies and mention explicitly in their trailer that they've rethought their relationship to the people around them. It's pretty clear that the whole gender identity thing is meant to be a part of that.
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Covnam



Joined: 31 May 2005
Posts: 3805
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 9:54 pm Reply with quote
Nice pickup with the Egret Mini. I've got an order in for the international version and I can't wait =)

Too bad about Dragalia, though not surprising. It'd be nice to see the IP stick around and get a more traditional game get produced for the franchise. I enjoyed the setting/characters, but didn't get in to the gameplay.
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whiskeyii



Joined: 29 May 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 10:38 pm Reply with quote
wolf10 wrote:
Well, non-binary persons can use pronouns besides they/them (such as e/em, or the occasional interchangeable he/she), so perhaps the takeaway should be "these are the pronouns that have been chosen for Testament moving forward" and not "this is objectively correct for any non-binary identity and therefore applies to Testament." It sounds like in Japanese they're simply not using pronouns at all (that's what is meant by "Testament is Testament").

I'm not much of a fighting game player, but I looked up Testament's old design and I have to say, I am really digging the new look. Very classy.


Whoops, I definitely didn’t mean to come across as declarative there! I’m aware of other non-binary pronouns, but I have a tendency to overexplain and was trying to keep things relatively simple without muddying the waters too much, but I should’ve been more considerate of any potential virtual bystanders, as it were. Thanks for the correction!
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