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This Week in Games - Brace Yourself For Gamer Discourse In 2024


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AiddonValentine



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 2341
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2024 2:24 pm Reply with quote
Layoffs begin so companies can pad their numbers. Pathetic on their part. I wish 2023 was going to be the worst of it, but it seems the industry is determined to make that not the case.

As for better stuff, the Prince of Persia demo is out and...huh, it's actually good and early buzz is very positive. Gee, maybe companies need to diversify their games and realizing that big budgets don't always mean critical acclaim. And Atlus has revealed the tutorial for the entire card game included with Unicorn Overlord's special edition. Just...JESUS:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4mf8jFtU_Q&ab_channel=OfficialATLUSWest

Also, Golden Sun hitting Switch Online. Oh, happy days


Last edited by AiddonValentine on Fri Jan 12, 2024 3:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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MarshalBanana



Joined: 31 Aug 2014
Posts: 5503
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2024 3:51 pm Reply with quote
I don't see why Nintendo just don't have all their VC games from their last system's eshop, available on their new console at launch. They waste years putting up overpriced NES games, before finally getting the games people actually want on, late in the system's lifespan.
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Sakurafire_



Joined: 01 Jun 2015
Posts: 67
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2024 4:20 pm Reply with quote
MarshalBanana wrote:
I don't see why Nintendo just don't have all their VC games from their last system's eshop, available on their new console at launch. They waste years putting up overpriced NES games, before finally getting the games people actually want on, late in the system's lifespan.


Because getting the games to work on the virtual console requires a considerable amount of programming, testing, and human-hours. It's not as easy as flipping a switch, pun not intended.
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Lord Geo



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 2666
Location: North Brunswick, New Jersey
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2024 4:28 pm Reply with quote
MarshalBanana wrote:
I don't see why Nintendo just don't have all their VC games from their last system's eshop, available on their new console at launch. They waste years putting up overpriced NES games, before finally getting the games people actually want on, late in the system's lifespan.


Licensing deals, for one. If Nintendo wants to offer third-party games from its prior consoles on current hardware it needs to make new deals with the third-parties, and as we can see with NSO it's obvious that not all third-parties agreed to the terms. It's why there aren't any Square or Enix games on NSO, for one. NSO is a completely different form of offering than the Virtual Console was (subscription based, rather than point of sale/POS based), so brand new deals have to be made, with brand new terms. Also, I highly doubt Nintendo's deals for the VC were written in a "applies to every single console Nintendo will ever make" language, because I highly doubt most third-party companies would ever agree to a deal that gives Nintendo that kind of eternal control.

Now, as for Nintendo's own games (&, to be fair, even some of Nintendo's own games have other companies' involvement, so there are deals to be made there too), everyone says that they just want everything released all at once, but all that would do is result in instant gratification & then a quick drop in interest, followed by nothing new to renew interest every once in a while. It's often said that collections of older games tend to have short tails, i.e. they may sell somewhat at first but tend to not continue selling over time due to a limited amount of potential buyers, so I can't fault Nintendo for wanting to do what it can to occasionally revitalize interest in NSO's classic console services by staggering new additions.
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AiddonValentine



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 2341
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2024 4:54 pm Reply with quote
Sakurafire_ wrote:
MarshalBanana wrote:
I don't see why Nintendo just don't have all their VC games from their last system's eshop, available on their new console at launch. They waste years putting up overpriced NES games, before finally getting the games people actually want on, late in the system's lifespan.


Because getting the games to work on the virtual console requires a considerable amount of programming, testing, and human-hours. It's not as easy as flipping a switch, pun not intended.


Pretty much; it's not copy-paste, even something as simple as a port to new hardware can cause interesting quirks. And some games had some interesting quirks to begin with. Earthbound for example has an absurdly unorthodox coding language used because its development was so hellish Satoru Iwata himself reprogrammed the game by himself. The code for the in-game text alone is complex enough to run an emulator with.
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Snowcat



Joined: 01 Feb 2021
Posts: 190
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2024 7:33 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
It all makes my head hurt, and I can only presume how much baggage it would be to drop all that online hate on an unsuspecting actor. Thankfully, Bailey got ahead of the hate by voicing her support for Dever on X (formerly Twitter).


I didn't played the games but the first season of the TV show was clearly proud of the "woke agenda" they were putting on screen and has probably selected its audience. That was not the problem for me, i dropped it because it was boring.
But after this first season, i don't see why gamers hating on Abby would tune in the second season to attack the actor. Except if they are masochists, they will probably ignore this show.
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yeehaw



Joined: 09 Sep 2018
Posts: 544
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2024 7:37 pm Reply with quote
So it sounds like the Nvidia AI is maybe unethical? But maybe not?
Honestly I don't get why they'd even spend any resources on NPC mouth flaps, because who in the world cares about NPC mouth flaps?
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 6278
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2024 7:50 pm Reply with quote
AiddonValentine wrote:
As for better stuff, the Prince of Persia demo is out and...huh, it's actually good and early buzz is very positive. Gee, maybe companies need to diversify their games and realizing that big budgets don't always mean critical acclaim.


This cuts both ways Smaller budgets and making more of the same kind of games people grew up on in the 80’s and 90’s doesn’t mean better either.

Not to mention in this particular case Lost Crown very likely only exists because of whatever the hell got Sands Of Time remake put in development hell. And as much as their were complaints about it at the time it wasn’t simply the issue of people complaining about the not remotely bad looking character designs in the non gameplay reveal trailer.
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tintor2



Joined: 11 Aug 2010
Posts: 2116
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2024 8:24 pm Reply with quote
With the whole SNK artist I kept expecting a confirmation about the handling plagiarism with K9999 who even got renamed.
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Turtleboy76



Joined: 06 Jun 2023
Posts: 162
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2024 8:37 pm Reply with quote
I just find it funny that Hogwarts was the biggest selling game of 2023, beating the COD and Rockstar streak. 22 Million. Its actually funny looking back at all the "boycotts" for that game and boy it couldnt have gone any more successfully if it tried.
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Dark Mac



Joined: 17 May 2008
Posts: 321
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2024 11:40 pm Reply with quote
AI has been used to match lip flaps for years, including in Final Fantasy VII Remake. Nothing new about it being used here.

Turtleboy76 wrote:
I just find it funny that Hogwarts was the biggest selling game of 2023, beating the COD and Rockstar streak. 22 Million. Its actually funny looking back at all the "boycotts" for that game and boy it couldnt have gone any more successfully if it tried.

Tears of the Kingdom's final numbers aren't out yet, but it hit 19.5M in September. There's a decent chance it's bigger than HL was.
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FinalVentCard
ANN Reviewer


Joined: 28 Oct 2018
Posts: 640
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2024 2:57 am Reply with quote
Dark Mac wrote:
Tears of the Kingdom's final numbers aren't out yet, but it hit 19.5M in September. There's a decent chance it's bigger than HL was.

Yeah, that's definitely something that needs to be examined. It's also important to look at a lot of the context around the sales data. For one thing, a lot of CHUDs bought Hogwarts Legacy "to trigger the libs", or whatever. We know this because the active player base dropped off within the month of the game releasing. A lot of what the kids call "copium huffing" followed with folks claiming that Hogwarts Legacy being a single-player game would do that...

... meanwhile, Tears of the Kingdom came out much later in the year (May vs HL's February release date), and almost caught up to Hogwarts Legacy. And folks were still obsessing over TOTK stuff like Zonai engineering or Purah, well into the end of the year; it definitely slapped HL's lifespan in the face. More importantly, Purah was a sensation of a character, whereas HL's characters didn't have any kind of staying power, be it the token olive leaf that was the trans bartender (whose name I don't know/remember) or the one teacher people were horny over for literally 15 minutes (I wanna say she was the herbology professor, I can't be bothered to check). HL had the Starfield issue where there was more splitting hairs about the game than actual discussion of people enjoying it. Whereas, TOTK was widely beloved and enjoyed and is an evergreen title that'll sell well after the Switch's lifespan.

Current Warner Bros is definitely going to try and milk a sequel out of HL's outrage-purchases (they're working on a quidditch game), and nobody deserves to be harassed if they just like the game outside of any of the background info (there are a lot of people who aren't nearly Online-enough to know a lot about Rowling being a horrid TERF). But diminishing returns is gonna hit any HL sequel hard (see: the Fantastic Beasts movies). Even true HP fans aren't gonna settle for mediocrity forever, even if they like the taste of British Styrofoam.
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MarshalBanana



Joined: 31 Aug 2014
Posts: 5503
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2024 4:38 am Reply with quote
Sakurafire_ wrote:
MarshalBanana wrote:
I don't see why Nintendo just don't have all their VC games from their last system's eshop, available on their new console at launch. They waste years putting up overpriced NES games, before finally getting the games people actually want on, late in the system's lifespan.


Because getting the games to work on the virtual console requires a considerable amount of programming, testing, and human-hours. It's not as easy as flipping a switch, pun not intended.
The PS1 games I brought on my PS3 are all playable on both my PSP and Vita, three entirely different systems. Some like Harvest Moon and Wild Arms are also on my PS5. Because all they are doing, is moving the emulator from one system to another. For Nintendo, taking those emulators from the Wii U to the Switch is super easy. They are not porting each individual game, they are just dumping roms onto an online store.
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Juno016



Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 2423
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2024 8:18 am Reply with quote
a_Bear_in_Bearcave wrote:
People bought the game because they love Harry Potter. Shops here are full of HP merchandize and no one here cares about Rowling, they like the world she created and don't care about US politics about UK author.


It isn't "US Politics". The targets of Rowling's political speech, as well as where she directs her political campaigning, are in the UK. While the start of everything has been over twitter, she has been in the UK news on and off over the years because of her views on trans people.

Anyway, I'm trying to think of the ethical implications behind why AI models training mouth-flapping on voice actors is wrong. Like, I can understand why it's unethical to steal artists' work to train models, or a voice actor's actual voice to make them say things they wouldn't want said with their voice, but mouth flapping is not a creative work, right? It's not unique to one person's likeness, either. Unless I'm misunderstanding/missing something in the larger discussion?
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Avec ou Nous



Joined: 17 Feb 2023
Posts: 150
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2024 9:32 am Reply with quote
Snowcat wrote:
I didn't played the games but the first season of the TV show was clearly proud of the "woke agenda" they were putting on screen and has probably selected its audience. That was not the problem for me, i dropped it because it was boring.
But after this first season, i don't see why gamers hating on Abby would tune in the second season to attack the actor. Except if they are masochists, they will probably ignore this show.


I think it's less about video game fans who already hate the character watching the show and doing it to the show actress and more about the unaware mainstream television viewers doing it once the show gets to that part. The show itself has it's own fanbase that are unfamiliar with the games, or video games at all for that matter. Being "woke" or "anti-woke" doesn't matter since both sides do outrage and harassment campaigns as people already pointed out with the Harry Potter stuff so leaning into one audience over another won't ward off people being mean online. The only thing that changes is the reasoning people try to use to justify it

I do have to raise my eyebrow at the article claiming the main reason people hate Abby is apparently some people thinking she was trans though. I mean, I certainly don't find her to be an appealing character looks-wise, but I'm pretty sure most people hated her for other things like.... well, just in case you or other people don't know I won't say, it has nothing really to do with political leanings or any kind of issues like that. spoiler[ Considering how much people seem to love Pedro Pascal as Joel in the show it's not hard to think those events might spark a new wave of outrage and hate towards the character. ]

Juno016 wrote:
Anyway, I'm trying to think of the ethical implications behind why AI models training mouth-flapping on voice actors is wrong. Like, I can understand why it's unethical to steal artists' work to train models, or a voice actor's actual voice to make them say things they wouldn't want said with their voice, but mouth flapping is not a creative work, right? It's not unique to one person's likeness, either. Unless I'm misunderstanding/missing something in the larger discussion?


I imagine some people probably just have a general blanket dislike of AI no matter the context or other factors involve. So if "AI = bad" then "this = bad" by default and the specifics are not important.
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