Forum - View topicWhat are some positive (and negative) opinions of OEL manga?
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82cgunn
 Posts: 1 Location: Columbus, GA |
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I just wanted to get opinions about OEL manga. I would like anyone’s thoughts on whether people view it as a “poseur,” or maybe a form of progression (?). I also wonder if people view Global or OEL manga as “hopping on the bandwagon” or if most manga fans genuinely appreciate it. The reason I ask all of this is that I have finally found the opportunity to launch my first OEL manga Kickstarter campaign for "Sympathy for the Devil: Fall of the Mourning Star." It should always come down to whether the art and the story are entertaining, not where the work comes from. I also agree with the old saying: “Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.” If you would, please check out my Kickstarter page and see if you would maybe enjoy what my artist and I have brought to the table. If you like it, then please pledge something and be a part of bringing this series to life. I promise this first 60 page webmanga will NOT disappoint!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/155951151/sympathy-for-the-devil-fall-of-the-mourning-star
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st_owly
 Posts: 5234 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland |
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I really don't care where a comic originates from as long as I can enjoy it. I've read some good OEL, and I've read some terrible OEL, just like I've read some good manga and some terrible manga.
Don't call your comic manga just for the sake of it though. Make a work that's unique to you, and if it happens to be influenced by manga, then so be it. I think a lot of OEL suffers from the problem of imitating manga because the creators think manga is cooler than comics. A lot of comics fans don't like manga, and a lot of manga fans don't like OEL as they think it's a poor imitation. At the end of the day, they're all comics, manga is just a borrowed Japanese word used in the West to distinguish comics which originate from Japan. In Japan, "manga" are quite often called コミック (komikku) anyway, and if you look at the front of most Japanese manga volumes they'll say "....Comics" rather than "...Manga" for example "Jump Comics." |
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KyuuA4
 Posts: 1371 Location: America, where anime and manga can be made |
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Well, I'll just say: good luck with this project of yours. Unfortunately, I find myself forced to make this prediction:
It won't go very far, just because it carries the OEL label. Overall, those things don't sell. But regardless, kudos to you doing some work in this direction.
I blame them for killing these kinds of endeavors. This only means: the bar has to be set so high - such that - an OEL product is indistinguishable from "actual" manga. For starters, people may have to take on a Japanese pen-name and then reveal the true author's name after said product has gotten a high enough reception. So, once again, good luck, man. EDIT: Hey. Instead of a manga, make a Visual Novel instead. 
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zawa113
 Posts: 7393 |
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I don't like the OEL manga label. Back when Tokyopop started this whole thing, they really shoved out a lot of garbage. A few good things surfaced, I'd be lying if I didn't say Felipe Smith was awesome, but I also feel that MBQ would've sold better as just an indie comic instead of an OEL. As an indie comic, MBQ is great! As a manga? It just doesn't feel like one, it seems a misleading label. Yen is clearly doing it more carefully, Smetlana Chamkova was already a popular comic artist, so she got to do a short series of her own, but any western artist is mostly doing a comic adaptation of some young adult novel held by the parent company Little,Brown. Because they're doing book adaptations, they have to make it so their product both attracts manga fans, but doesn't alienate the book fans who might not be manga fans, I think they're struck a pretty good balance. That said, other than the Nightschool comic, their website says they're publishing non-manga books (for example, their website lists Gabby and Gator), but I've never seen them in the manga section at a store. And I'm cool with that since they're not proclaiming them as manga to me.
So I've read good manga labeled as "OEL", but that's only because they would've been good comics had they been labeled "indie comics" instead. And I would've been way more open to them/happy with them had they just been called indie comics instead. Comics is actually possibly the only word that "indie" can be attached to for me without negative connotation. I generally take it to mean anything not put out by Marvel or DC, they can in black and white, they can be about whatever. Attach indie to anything else, and I think "annoying hipster" or that movie Juno *shudder*. But still, the indie comic scene is where I feel I find innovation, not the OEL manga scene. OEL makes me think they're trying too hard to be manga when they're so clearly not and it's not like I mind the manga style or anything, I've just yet to see an OEL that felt like a manga and not just a good indie comic. Why make up a new word for something that already exists? If Tokyopop wanted to publish US made comics, fine, just don't call it manga, that gives us an entirely different expectation. |
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Mr Adventure
 Posts: 1598 |
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OEL comics that are created with the idea that 'Anime is a Style' are pretty much doomed from the beginning. Because OEL Manga that goes that route largely misses the point.
Now, comics that draw heavily from manga as a whole, and doesn't try to shoehorn it into some kind of Big Eyes, Small Month stereotype as a cash grab, those often work, and often work well. The works of Stan Sakai (Usagi Yojimbo), Brandon Graham (King City), and Adam Warren (Empowered) all spring to mind. But what they don't do, is call their work 'OEL Manga' (well, I guess Graham did on King City when it was at TokyoPop, but that was more so he could get published). They're just comics, that happen to draw a lot on Japanese creative influences. And that's really the trick of it to create a good OEL Manga. Don't make an OEL Manga. Just make a good comic. Oh, and as a personal preference. If I am trying to create something 'manga influenced', I rarely use art styles as a guide. What I actually try to follow, for that 'manga feel', is format. Most Manga is published in black and white anthologies in 17/19/21 page installments. So I try to write something in a manga style, that is what I focus on. Creating serialized stories in a specific page length, that differs from the US comic standard of '22 color pages monthly'. Because that is where the real difference lies. |
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KyuuA4
Posts: 1371 Location: America, where anime and manga can be made |
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"Indie" has the mark of "amateur" attached to it. That's not a direction y'want to go, if you ever aspire to be professional. However, there's nothing wrong with starting up as an "indie" and working your way up.
The days of Dilbert and Garfield are gone. These live in the newspapers, where nobody reads anymore. In order for a web comic to succeed, it has to have as much influence as PennyArcade. |
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Mr Adventure
Posts: 1598 |
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Um that's not true. Plenty of professionals have made their careers off the back of independent comics. Jeff Smith (Bone), Mike Mignola (Hellboy), Robert Kirkman (The Walking Dead); just to name a few.
I really don't see what this has to do with what I said. And, no, you don't have to be as influencal as Penny Arcade to 'be successful'. [/quote][/spoiler] |
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Tamaria
 Posts: 1512 Location: De Achterhoek |
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'Indie comics is simply an different name for alternative comics. You know, an alternative to the Marvel and DC superheroes. The dirty word you're looking for is 'vanity press'
Alternative comics make of a considerable part of the market and there are more than a few publishers who specialise in these comics. There is absoluty no shame in having your work published by a publishers such as Last Gasp or Fantagraphics. Or, if you're thinking in the direction of independent publishers who focus more on action, horror and/or popculture related works, Dark Horse or Oni Press. Even starting with a webcomic and the self publishing TPBs is nothing something people look down upon nowadays. There may be a lot of crap out there, but the same goes for 'normal' comics. Draw like a professional, present your work like a professional and people will see you as a professional. |
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Matarael
 Posts: 51 |
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Not as good as The Rolling Stones' song I'm afraid. |
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KyuuA4
Posts: 1371 Location: America, where anime and manga can be made |
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Vanity press? What hipster came up with that? 
Bingo. Seeing the quality of fan art from the American side -- for anyone to draw manga at the professional level. The talent pool has a long way to go. Hence, if you ask me, people may be able to get away with it (as a short cut) by producing Light Novels. And now, I realize I mistook Light Novel for Visual Novel. 
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Tamaria
Posts: 1512 Location: De Achterhoek |
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You can pay a publisher to publish your book for you. The result will be a professional looking book (on the outside anyway), but it can easily cost the writer thousands of dollars. That's vanity press. |
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RAmmsoldat
 Posts: 1261 Location: North wales coast |
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This is true, when the walking dead hit i read it partly because it was a zombie story but also because i was a fan of Battle Pope which was published under the funk-o-tron label which kirkman founded and published his own works through and it closed when he went over to image its the very definition of indie I never thought of it as unprofessional and kirkman is now one of the biggest names in comic books so it hasn't hurt his career any. I dont like to go on too much about "western" comics as I've not had a real depth of exposure outside of a few titles here and there and reading 2000AD a little back in the early 90's but if you are going to make an OEL title i really would stress playing down the manga angle and trying to make your work stand on its own merits. People who like manga will see the style influence without it being pointed out and pointing it out kinda reflects poorly anyway. If people ask about it then yeah of course say its manga inspired but i guess what im saying is that if you focus on the substance over the style then the work will find its audience. |
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