Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: CROSS ANGE Rondo of Angel and Dragon
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Souther
 Posts: 629 |
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I agree with Key that there's a rather cynical edge to the show, and the other reviewers also picked up on it during their previews, which became one of the many points of critique about Cross Ange. Though, I think the show's also being optimistic.
It's fitting that earlier on, most of the reviewers and some of the members made the point during their critiques that works and art aren't made in a vacuum and the ideas present in the show reflected badly on the creators. Then as the series progresses, you find out in-universe, the fictional world of Cross Ange wasn't made in a vacuum either and it reflects Embryo's thoughts and values as well. He's a cynical man who doesn't believe in humanity to better itself on its own due to what happened in the past. He didn't trust the Norma to be able to integrate into his world either, so he put them up as pariahs so that the Mana users wouldn't fight amongst themselves and channel all of their aggression onto them, and also enslaved them. He's also mastered the art of exploiting and manipulating people (seems to have a preference for using women) and that's reflected in the horrifically exploitative system he uses to fuel his world (fitting that the Norma are all women as well). While the DRAGONs have sacrificed their original humanity, they're shown in a far more positive and optimistic light in comparison IMO. They've realised their sins and are working together to rebuild their world and achieve harmony through a slow process, contrary to Embryo's opinions. Embryo's responsible for what he's criticising in this episode. I don't think Embryo can ever really hope to make a perfect world because he has very warped views and they'll be reflected in whatever world he creates, no matter his attempts. |
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ichii_1
 Posts: 151 |
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Embryo sama aka "THE SEX GOD"
spoiler[Embryo sama will give you pleasure beyond what a mere human can do, he will fulfill you in both body and mind as long as you submit to him, if not he will become the devil himself. Salia is jeaolus and her doubts are confirmed, Ange is just better than her at everything, but she still saves Ange cause she still considers her a friend deep down :'( Hilda and Rosalie <3 Hilda doesn't want to have sex cause she loves Ange now, and Rosalie confesses her feelings for Chris, a bit late thou and that's why you should not let love go unchecked otherwise you're love might be gone.] Angelize sama's new look is HOT! :O Whooooooooooooooooooooot https://40.media.tumblr.com/f49bf1db2778c60f064d4546c0b13a70/tumblr_nk6jdtZTbB1qaqdx1o2_540.png And Angelize sama's ferocity is intense. https://38.media.tumblr.com/7469b7f2854980c3e50c04ced6879d08/tumblr_nk6cigS0jC1qknyvjo1_r1_500.gif Riza aka Lizardia getting the slave treatment again, but Momoka saves her and treats her but wants her to heartily apologize. At the end Lizardia is ecstatic that Salamandinay sama has come. |
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Izanagi009
 Posts: 473 Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA |
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I can understand why you think there isn't any controversy since it seems more like a normal thing a psycho would do to break someone but man looking back, it's a bit much and I get the feeling that we will have to deal with a lot of argument again especially since another reviewer on the site, Miss Chapman, hasn't been kind to the show and has now caught up with the show; to say she's pissed is an understatement. and people wonder why I hate fanservice |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 25624 |
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My big problem with the show these days is that Embryo-sama (and believe me, you have no idea how it makes me cringe to have to type that name - ANIME, COME UP WITH BETTER VILLAIN HANDLES, DAMMIT!!! ... I suppose we should be thankful he wasn't tagged as Fetus-dono) is wildly overpowered. To the point where I don't understand how there is any opposition to him, at all. It seems like he would have been able to find the sub that Alektra and the others are on ages ago and wiped it out, if he wanted. The show doesn't seem to be playing the "those gnats aren't worth my bother" card, but maybe we're supposed to intuit it?
Anyway, we haven't seen what his Kryptonite is yet and I just hope it isn't something that will make me groan (in the not good way). |
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Stuart Smith
 Posts: 1298 |
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I think you're overestimating controversy and putting the opinions of a random person or two as some kind of relevant or majority opinion. A random person on the internet who doesn't even speak Japanese getting angry at this show does not mean it has controversy surrounding it. All the places I see the show discussed are treating it no different than any other show. -Stuart Smith |
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Izanagi009
Posts: 473 Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA |
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No but I have a feeling that there is one and that people will be taking sides. Chapman is on the "hate" side and so am I at this point. This is an issue with the show and it would need to be addressed. |
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Izanagi009
Posts: 473 Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA |
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yeah, i would bet that the resolution to this whole thing will be very cheap or stupid and piss me and everyone off like Aldnoah did. this show just keeps finding ways to bore into our heads and piss us off doesnt it? |
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HaruhiToy
 Posts: 4118 |
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Well, Ange did manage to annoy him a little with her comments about his tea. Well c'mon at least he isn't invincible. I think a bigger problem with the character is that his actions really aren't making a lot of sense. For example, with Ange he thinks she is unique and wants to waifu her because she is so .. whatever. And then what does he try to do with her other than turn her into a pliant doll no different than he did with any of the other girls. At best Ange would be a snack that resisted him a bit longer but once that's done that would be it. Why bother? And if he thinks that the current experiment where he gives everyone Light of Mana is a failure, why doesn't he just give the prime dragon back? It isn't as if we haven't seen his dilemma before. In The Matrix the Machines had to re-create the world I think about six times before they got around to making Keanu Reeves a star. The basic message is that Humans Are Messy and Won't Do What You Want Them To no matter how powerful you are. We are also seeing that in Junketsu no Maria. I think you can take it for granted that Embryo (yes I agree an awful name) started out genuinely interested in doing good for everyone and feeling selfless, then sliding down the path of frustration coupled with hubris to the point were he has lost all human perspective. He feels no need for input from anyone because he is obviously the smartest guy in the room. So no doubt he has some weakness that Ange will find and use -- count on it. The only real question is will he contribute to the solution or resist it to the end. |
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gloverrandal
Posts: 406 Location: Oita |
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I would say Cross Ange is doing decent for an original property. Remember, it's not a sequel or based on anything so it's at a disadvantage in terms of recognition. The Festa event happened over the weekend and some reports on 2ch have been saying it was a success. >Dakimakuras sold out immediately one hour before the event >Hilda sold out first, then Ange followed by Salia a few minutes later >Some people were mad they didn't get to buy theirs but the event staff promised there would be more in the future >Fukuda came in late, complained why there is no Perolina stuffed toy >There was a long line of people who preordered Volume 3, its as long as the line in the entrance >Merch were mostly sold out, it was a success! There's also a long Q&A with the staff and seiyuu that's floating around that's fun to read. |
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15882 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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I thought the episode was good. The sexual violation has been a big part of this series, and it has always stood counter to Ange's personal strength. This time it was not just her body, but her mind too. Which seems to be what Embryo does, violating the minds and desires of people to put them in a role he wants. With the series being so female character heavy you could probably connect that to some idea of women being forced into roles by society due to various manipulation.
I get the feeling that you might be disturbed by your level of thinking sexuality in how you might think about Ange being forced to masturbate. I wonder if outcry could be of thinking that the creators are making Ange do so for titillation, but the context really is that the villain is forcing Ange to do so out of his manipulation, we are meant to see it as his cruel act. And on the other side it really is a bodily function, it is not like she has to really feel soul breaking ashamed, and she is doing a great job at fighting against the control. The series always seems to have done things two ways. One is the open nudity and sexuality that could be taken as pandering or some such. The other is how Ange has been shown as a character that has almost always defied expectations with her dignity of who she is and how she has stood against the situations that have made up what have put her as what some would say as a sexual object. And lastly it is not always like she has to pick one of the other, she has shown interest in sexuality also, and it has been fairly healthy, and been her choice. In a number of ecchi series you have characters forced into the sexuality as they go all meek, saying "don't" as they moan because the show want the audience to know that they really do want it despite no saying so. Ange really has fought against that, she is a strong character that wants to define herself and generally owns against what the system has placed on her. Also it is my feeling that Hilda's deal of doing it with Tusk was her feeling of wanting to protect Ange's chastity from him. |
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Cptn_Taylor
Posts: 925 |
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Good (Kosh docet)
I'm sorry but whose issue is it that you and Miss Chapman don't like this series ? ------------------------------------------------
Yeah Sunrise should have named him I don't know let's see, uhm Full Frontal ? Now that's a name that says everything. 
Superman is very well invincible for humans and yet a tiny puny rock can kill him. Embryo while vastly powerful can be killed. And he can be killed only with the Vilkiss. I think it was said by one of the characters in this episode. The Vilkiss is Embryo's kryptonite. The question therefore is not "can he be killed" rather "will Embryo kill the only one capable of piloting the Vilkiss". Is he going to kill Ange first ? |
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Rogueywon
Posts: 309 |
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Yikes - I just went to check the relevant twitter feed and - oh my word, that is a lot of anger there (and not much civility). But you're right, there's no "issue that would need to be addressed". If you really don't like the show, don't watch it. ISUCA had the single worst opening episode I've seen since the pre-bubble days of the mid-00s, so I just dropped it. I mention it here as a point of reference, but I don't feel the need to bang on about it. Yurikuma Arashi made it five episodes before I concluded it was a pile of pseudo-intellectual tosh and moved on, but if it floats other peoples' boat, that's fine. I'll admit upfront that I found Cross Ange ep 20 a bit uncomfortable, as described in my last post. But it's still my favorite show of this season or last (Maria and Parasyte its only real rivals). The fact that it makes me uncomfortable actually counts in its favour to an extent. And Ange is the single best developed protagonist - male or female - we've had in anime for years. |
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Souther
Posts: 629 |
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While I see Cross Ange as more or less the anime equivalent of a pink movie and dismiss the less savoury elements in favour of the story, I think you can definitely take the creators to task about how they use and frame scenes of rape/sexual assault in the series. One issue's that they use it to reaffirm Ange's strength and will through her resisting them, which isn't the best of messages to send out, to say the least. Another issue's that they frame it in a titillating way.
I got the context of this episode's scene as well as the other scenes and don't think they were purely shock and titillation. With Jill, it was a form of control, especially since later down the line, you find out how much she needs Ange. With Zola, again, it was a form of control as well as a twisted form of "comfort" to keep her squad in line and keep them loyal to her. She'd also been beaten into submission about how Normas are beasts and whatnot, and became a hedonist to make the best of the hostile environment of Arzenal, and reclaim a degree of status, power and comfort. While one of the themes of the series is people controlling and forcing others to do what they want to get what they want, they could've been, if not omitted, been more tasteful in how they did those scenes IMO. I don't think the rape and sexual assault's the only thing people'll critique the show for either. Despite all that, I quite like the show. Last edited by Souther on Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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Alright, woke up this morning to a thread explosion. I removed most of the previous argument so this thread can get back on topic, which is discussion of the series.
New rules for this thread: Discussion needs to focus entirely on the show itself and your opinion of it. Attacking other people for their opinion - especially when they are obviously not participating in this thread at all - is not cool. Attacking eachother is also not cool. Suggesting that people who enjoy this show are misogynist or otherwise bad is not cool. This thread will be policed for anything that even kinda seems like a personal attack until we can all get along and discuss the show in peace, until it's over in a few weeks. Attacking people who are offended by this show is not permitted. Attacking people who like this show is not permitted. Attacking anyone for any reason over this show is not permitted. Baiting people who you know disagree with you (but are not participating in this thread) into coming here to fight with you is not OK. Likewise it is not OK for anyone who has a serious problem with this show to wander in and start tossing bombs. Discussion has to be civil above all else, and at this point, it also has to be benign. Discussions and disagreements about the series can be had, but the second it gets personal on any level, posts will be removed. Anyone persisting in attacking people over this show in this thread will be taken care of swiftly. Hope's response - locking the thread - was not acceptable and it has been explained to her why that wasn't OK, and it will not happen again. She has been asked not to exercise any of her moderator abilities in this thread moving forward; someone else will be called in to handle it if there's a problem. OK, carry on. Be nice. Don't pick fights. The end. |
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Izanagi009
Posts: 473 Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA |
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I am writing to apologize for partially causing this explosion to happen since I was the one to mention Miss Chapman in relation to her responses to the show. Regardless, this show is certainly giving me and many others reasons to dislike it and many reasons to at least enjoy a trainwreck. |
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