Forum - View topicThis Week in Games - Live In Y○ur W×rld, △I Plays □urs
|
Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|
FireChick
 Subscriber Posts: 2760 Location: United States |
|
|||
|
Sister Other Paranoia's Steam listing says it used some generative AI:
"Some background images have been adjusted using Adobe's AI features in order to modify copyrighted material. All in-game content, story, and assets are pre-authored and finalized by humans. No AI-generated content is created or modified during gameplay." Not sure why they bothered to use AI to do that when there were probably many other ways to modify copyrighted material that don't rely on AI. |
||||
|
||||
Greed1914
 Posts: 5348 |
|
|||
|
Not impressed with the AI game help. Guide videos exist, and the in-game help has existed on PS5 this whole time. The thing is that most games didn't use it because it was something that the devs would also have to include. Like a lot of neat features on Playstation, it ends up being Sony itself that bothers with it, so unless it's a first-party game, you're not likely to see the pop up that in-game assistance is available. Even when it is there, I forget it exists and will probably go look for a guide if I am truly stuck.
|
||||
|
||||
|
Purple Tentacle
Posts: 44 |
|
|||
|
I think the main difference between the Nintendo game examples and what Sony might have in mind is Nintendo's seem to all involve some kind of God Mode or outright Invulnerability cheat like the white Tanuki suit in 3D world. Sony's idea sounds like it would actually adapt and change real-time and be like assisted aim or something. In theory, anyway. A lot of these features games advertise tend to fall short. We'll see if they can cook.
Although given the way the speedrunning community is, calling it 'stolen content' is pretty silly. A lot of people learn and copy techs and strategies when they become found and it's encouraged. The idea no one else can do DDD skip in Mario 64 because one guy did first and if you do it too you're 'stealing' his strategy is crazy and no one who's actually serious and in the speedrun community thinks that way. Actually managing to do it yourself is like 95% of the challenge anyway. |
||||
|
||||
Zased
 Posts: 144 |
|
|||
More than likely because it was much more convenient and easier for them than doing it manually by hand. We're definitely getting into an interesting era where a lot of people who used to be staunch advocates for better working conditions and accessibility settings are now deciding it's better for people to suffer and go without aid than use freely available technology that can help alleviate both. If using an AI feature in Adobe to edit those things means something takes minutes instead of hours or even days then why not use it? Surely people aren't suggesting they be subjected to overtime and crunch instead of using a widely available feature in a piece of commercial software if it's available. |
||||
|
||||
|
Greed1914
Posts: 5348 |
|
|||
I don't think I would call that people wanting suffering in the creative process. Instead of allowing more time to do work to avoid crunch, companies are prone to use it to do less. Using the example given, why was the choice made to alter copyrighted material? Using a tool, even an AI one, to modify something they made themselves makes more sense since they can do as the please with their own product. Instead, a choice was made to use copyrighted material, which is already a shortcut compared to an original creation. Then, since they knew that using someone else's copyrighted material wouldn't work, they then took a further shortcut by letting AI alter the images instead of making anything of their own. The current state of AI is built on taking other people's work and smashing it back together as if that is something new. I'm not sure it is any better for a company to say, "We really like that particular image. Let's deliberately take it and have the program change a few things." vs. having an in-house artist do the same thing manually. Both save time compared to being original, but both are based on taking from someone else. |
||||
|
||||
FishLion
Crazy Fangirl Posts: 857 |
|
|||
That's a pretty disingenuous way of looking at it. You can copy plays from a football game, but if you set up a YT channel broadcasting football games then the companies would definitely take you down. This is no different, if you want to watch a speedrun and copy a technique in the game for your own you're all good, hell if you want to put a clip of the speed run in your own breakdown (which at least advertises the original streamer) to show a technique then that's fine, but the second you take a let's play, put an AI ghost filter over it, and slap it in a game without credit, advertising, or compensation to the original creator, that is obviously stealing. I do think it is funny AI supporters keep citing it as an accessibility issue. It is a thousand times harder to start your art or game design career now thanks to AI, they flood the social media channels with stolen material and make it impossible for real artists to get known to companies and find jobs. They will cry foul that people have to do work to make art even as they make every artist do ten times as much work just to be seen over the people that have stolen their labor. But they don't care about that increase in labor, they only care that artists being overworked gives them a convenient moral argument to claim AI is helping people. I know people say it more as a gotcha statement than a serious one, but I feel like these people lack a basic understanding that it isn't a good gotcha if solving an ethical issue is done by creating another one. The artists whose content was stolen to power AI also worked for hours or even days, when you consider how many works went into this that probably adds up to thousands of stolen hours or days that were done with absolutely no reward, but now because someone that sells media products is overworked they apparently have a right to take advantage of those other overworked people to ease their own burden. A burden they or their bosses just happens to want to save money on while giving us a worse product, but oh won't someone think of their crunched workers and accept crap while still paying publishers a mint? It's very transparent to me that people are only leveraging "accessibility" as an argument to justify their own pillaging. |
||||
|
||||
Joe Mello
 Posts: 2559 Location: Online Terminal |
|
|||
|
I think the last story of the week nicely ties in with the first, as you don't get HoloType without Sega publishing The Typing of The Dead.
Nintendo may outlive the heat death of the universe, but Sega's impact is also immensely profound. |
||||
|
||||
AiddonValentine
 Posts: 2947 |
|
|||
|
-Sony AI Nonsense: It's always funny when people try to bring up "accessibility" with AI when we all know that's just a bunch of crocodile tears. After all, accessibility is about inclusion and AI advocates find inclusion icky. I also find it funny how Nintendo did this years ago (which I might add caused a "betrayal!" uproar in the gaming press) without AI. Typical tech industry behavior: pretend like you're the first to make something that's been around for ten years, but way less efficient.
Anyway, back to the DQVII demo which is just in time as I just finished the DQI remake. Also, fun little tidbit to add to the Soraya Saga stuff from last week, she actually mentioned her late brother was the one who came up with Chrono Trigger's name: https://bsky.app/profile/sorayatokyo.bsky.social/post/3mbxwrdhxhc23 |
||||
|
||||
|
That Little Rapscallion
Posts: 146 |
|
|||
By original creator do you mean the game studio because I don't think content creators can really copyright their stuff given they profit from other companies work themselves. You cannot "steal" from them - let alone the game companies that would employ this AI stuff that is their work originally anyway. In this case it seems pretty cut and dry that they can probably do whatever they want with whatever footage you take of their game. I know no one actually reads any of those EULA but I assume there's a thing in there about any content you make in game or out of game using footage from it is theirs or subject to their discretion. And if it's not already it no doubt will be in the future which will freely allow them to use whatever footage is out there on the internet. Much like companies like Nintendo, Square-Enix, or SEGA can get your channel struck or banned if you break their content creation guidelines. Dragon Quest 7's Reimagining apparently has some of those very strict guidelines in place currently even for the demo. |
||||
|
||||
|
FishLion
Crazy Fangirl Posts: 857 |
|
|||
|
Firstly, in the US at least you automatically get copyright of things you create, which makes transformative game content a gray area.
Let's player's content can be subject to strict fair use guidelines, but that is because YouTube, Twitch, or whoever else hosts the video is ultimately the responsible party and they don't want to get in a copyright lawsuit over a content creator. But theoretically, if Nintendo sent you a cease and desist for hosting a let's play of Nintendo's work you could claim fair use in court. Who knows how that would be ruled on, but the point is that even if Nintendo has a right to take down a LP because it has their copyrighted content, that in no way gives them legal ownership of the entire derivative work. They only have so much control over what is shared on these platforms because the platforms do not tend to question copyright claims seriously, if anything they tend to force the creator to prove innocence after a complaint is filed. Secondly, you might be right about the EULAs giving them a legal right to that because YT at least definitely had a clause stating they can use your work for training AI and I totally believe they would try to make their own game help tools or sell the data to Sony, so I am sure game producers have something similar in their games that gives them control over derivative works. That would still be wrong though, i honestly hate EULAs and how they are used to control the internet. Every major art hosting space on the internet has similar terms in their EULAs to scrape their data for AIs and it's wrong they force people into those agreements. It's a well known fact that EULAs are stuffed full of legalese to purposefully hide from people what all they are signing, putting some fine print in a contract you have to sign to create content and then waving it in your nose when they steal your work actually even grosser than just stealing it. Just because game makers have EULAs doesn't mean they are a good system or we shouldn't be upset people are potentially going to use them to steal. So no matter how you slice it if they use the work the content creator did is stolen, it may be legally harvested and not have broken the law in doing so, but you have still forced people into a manufactured consent situation where the only way to be a Let's Player without being stolen from is to make your own video game which is just not feasible for everyone. Besides all that though, generative AI is trained on pretty much the whole internet, I don't think it would be feasible to just take let's plays of a single game or even a single company's games and make a functional game solver like Sony describes. It would need to be trained on more than Sony games and at that point we are back to Sony has no right to steal from other companies that didn't sign EULAs. |
||||
|
||||
|
AiddonValentine
Posts: 2947 |
|
|||
|
Eh, Dragon Quest VII's guidelines are pretty run of the mill for Japanese guidelines, especially now that Sugiyama can no longer lord over his music and people don't have to mute it anymore.
|
||||
|
||||
|
Silver Kirin
Posts: 1761 |
|
|||
|
- David Rose: may he rest in peace. His passing reminded me how old the video game industry has become, especially with how many games are celebrating their 40th anniversaries this year, but it also reminded me of how companies like SEGA and others (like Namco, Konami and Taito) actually had their origins in the electromechanical games and amusement business, something which is kind of ignored by the majority of the gaming public, aside from some hardcore fans, though it seems Nintendo is the only company whose origin as a playing card and toy manufacturer is a somewhat well-known fact, to the point that some people tend to still refer to Nintendo as a toy company as a negative, for some reason. Still, it's kind of sad that very few people are aware of SEGA's innovations in the pre-video game arcade business, or even many of their innovations in their pre-Genesis/Mega Drive days, though one of the main issues is that, as explained in this article, many of SEGA's arcade machines relied on huge cabinets, which sometimes acted like theme park rides, which is something almost impossible to replicate at home and I believe that's a reason why some younger people aren't impressed by games like Space Harrier, Fantasy Zone, After Burner, OutRun, or even Daytona USA and Virtua Fighter, just to name a few.
|
||||
|
||||
wolf10
 Posts: 989 |
|
|||
Paradise was very deep in my backlog, but I'll have to move it up if it's actually getting the fandisc released, too. Still a shame JAST Blue's deal with Nitro+Chiral fell through before we got Lamento or any of the extra DMMD content. Moving on to the news (for some reason it's always the footnotes that really call out to me), with Itahana packing up and leaving, I'm trying to figure out exactly how much of the old old artistic talent Square even has left at this point. Hideo Minaba left for Cygames a long time ago, Akihiko Yoshida left for CyDesignation. Who's even left now? Gen Kobayashi? Square is in this really weird position where it seems like talent keeps leaving on paper, but you'll still see the same names popping up in game credits years or even decades later (see Akihiko Yoshida's continuing work on FFXIV box art). Kind of sad that the last new thing Square put out with Itahana's name on it was a single character design for FFXIV, but I guess that's part of why he's leaving. Maybe the rumored FFIX remake was canceled after all and that was the last straw. (Or maybe the Another Eden crossover mini-remake really was it.) The full reasoning is destined to stay private, and it's probably a lot of little things, but when a big ol' announcement post goes up it's hard to keep from speculating. |
||||
|
||||
|
Markole
Posts: 2 |
|
|||
It’s a little odd that they used AI just for minor background adjustments. They could have manually edited or redrawn the images, but I guess it was quicker or easier with Adobe’s tools. At least they clarified that all story and gameplay content is fully human-made. |
||||
|
||||
|
AsleepBySunset
Posts: 315 |
|
|||
Is this the new rhetorical tactic ai advocates are going to launch into. Sigh. The simple fact is people put up with the abusive conditions in the anime industry/game industry because it's their dream job. AI will not "assist" these people in making their lives easier. It will AT BEST cut 90% of these people and make the lives of the 10% remaining easier. AT BEST. And easier is a euphemism, it's more like forcing the remaining 10% to use something they would rather never touch. At least personally I feel like the prospect of working in an ai assisted job is worse than working at mcdonalds and since "AI assisted" jobs would be entirely de-skilled, they would pay exactly as much as mcdonalds. Essentially, at best you're savaging the anime/gaming industry limb from limb with a giant bulldozer which deskills and devalues the LABOUR of EVERYONE in that industry, to the point most people would now value a picture at at best $1 per picture, after all they can just ask shitgpt, and that's NOW. While claiming your some benevolent advocate for labour conditions. In short, stop pretending to be "pro labour", the ai industry STOLE the fruits of all artists/programmers labour EVERYWHERE, claiming since it's on the internet it's free, and repackaged it back to "ideally" the artists/programmers, but more practically, their bosses, for a low, low, low cost. Now the artists/programmers can safely be removed from the industry. There will be better labour conditions because they'll be forcibly unemployed. And no. UBI's not coming. |
||||
|
||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group