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REVIEW: The Tyrant Falls in Love GN 1


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FMAvatard



Joined: 24 Jun 2009
Posts: 184
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:16 pm Reply with quote
This was an excellent review. I have to say, I'm very out of the loop when it comes to new releases from Jun, so this was very helpful.

It sounds like a good read for a fujoshi like me, and I wouldn't have known it existed otherwise. Anime hyper
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FeralKat



Joined: 06 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:57 pm Reply with quote
Great review! I usually despise non-con yaoi, but Tyrant is just too hilarious! Laughing
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Crisha
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Joined: 21 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:01 am Reply with quote
Yeah, this series is not for me. Curious because of the art style I ended up reading these chapters and promptly about tore the furniture up around me. I was disturbed and disgusted with the non-consensual sex scene and then really pissed with the "make-up" sex scene, which to me felt just as noncon.

Oh well, the series helped reminded me why I don't read a majority of yaoi. Consider my lesson learned.

Good review anyways.
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CCSYueh



Joined: 03 Jul 2004
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Location: San Diego, CA
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:14 am Reply with quote
I am awaiting my copy to get in. I had DQ's on order for a couple yrs, but only got my order in on this one last month so I'll probably be waiting a bit.
Challengers was silly funny & big bro was one of the funniest bits. Of course the chapters where they decide to consumate their relationship but can't figure out how so one asks a gay person whole the other reads up on how to do it was one of the high points
However, the homophobia is over a professor making advances in the past, isn't it? Can't recall if it was actually rape or just unwelcome touching. I got the impression (& knowing how all the guys in yaoi novels seem to be gay) were it not for that, Big Bro might be willing to lean that direction.
I might have to break open the comic bag they're stored in & re-read Challengers. Was Challengers the one with the gay American who kept wanting to steal the uke? The attitude seemed to be every guy in America is gay.
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poonk



Joined: 05 Jun 2008
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Location: In the Library with Philip
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 1:01 am Reply with quote
I don't even remember how I first heard about this title but it's been on my Amazon wishlist for what seems like forever (along with a lot of other "why-didn't-they-ever-release-this-after-announcing-it?" titles from various BL publishers). Now that it's actually out I've throw it in my Shopping Cart but I've been wondering-- would I enjoy this more if I read Challengers first? I never picked up that series and I don't really relish the idea of hunting down all 4 volumes from various Amazon Marketplace sellers, especially since unlike some books these haven't gone down in price (besides v01) in the secondary market.
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momogoldfish



Joined: 01 May 2009
Posts: 135
Location: New Zealand
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 3:27 am Reply with quote
I don't think it matters. I didn't read Challengers first (and still haven't finished reading it) but that hasn't stopped me from really enjoying Koisuru Boukun.
I wonder if any company will bring the ova over to the west as well after junjou romantica...though the "scenes" will be a much bigger problem in this case.
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CCSYueh



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:20 am Reply with quote
I don't read scans so I have no idea until I get my copy, but Big Bro is a side character which means usually it doesn't hurt not reading their story, but you shuold be able to just read this one & still follow. It's not like he's in it a lot, though he is discussed a lot more than he is actually seen.
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Past



Joined: 14 Feb 2006
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Location: HK wherabouts Pronouns: she/her
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 5:57 pm Reply with quote
I read the review and I've just got a little feedback; I was wondering if the writer could take better care to check for grammatical errors. Quality is a big part of any review I think. There are plenty of fujoshi out there who'd love to be published in ANN or other popular sites, so of the ones that do [get published] have lots of errors in their piece, it doesn't paint a very good picture for the rest of them.
willag wrote:
Yeah, this series is not for me. Curious because of the art style I ended up reading these chapters and promptly about tore the furniture up around me. I was disturbed and disgusted with the non-consensual sex scene and then really pissed with the "make-up" sex scene, which to me felt just as noncon.

Oh well, the series helped reminded me why I don't read a majority of yaoi. Consider my lesson learned.
You know, it's something that's been bothering me. Every manga involving sexual situations I've encountered does involve non-con sex. Is it that it's an unfortunate necessity in manga in order to build tension, plot and conflict? Do we in fact have to turn off the part of our brains that tells us rape is wrong (but doing doesn't deny the fact we recognize it is) in order to enjoy a sexual romance manga, because due to the nature of the storytelling it is not possible for consensual romances to be (as) interesting and engaging? I don't know. But from the lack of experience with it (because of the lack of titles like that out there), that's what I'm starting to think.
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tuxedocat



Joined: 14 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 6:54 pm Reply with quote
Past wrote:
You know, it's something that's been bothering me. Every manga involving sexual situations I've encountered does involve non-con sex. Is it that it's an unfortunate necessity in manga in order to build tension, plot and conflict? Do we in fact have to turn off the part of our brains that tells us rape is wrong (but doing doesn't deny the fact we recognize it is) in order to enjoy a sexual romance manga, because due to the nature of the storytelling it is not possible for consensual romances to be (as) interesting and engaging? I don't know. But from the lack of experience with it (because of the lack of titles like that out there), that's what I'm starting to think.


The Romance Writers call it "forceable seduction" and it is one of the most overused tropes in romance fiction. It is but one of the big reasons I don't read a lot of romances. It is out-of-favor for the most part, but still used in a lot of romances that you see on the bookstore shelves.

It is not limited to yaoi by any means. The yaoi writers haven't figured out yet how overused the trope is, I guess because of the amount of repression over subjects like homosexuality, so it is still used (and overused) in abundance.
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rinmackie



Joined: 05 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:02 pm Reply with quote
Well, I actually like these kind of stories, not saying that every yaoi I read has to have non-con, but I certainly don't mind it. Of course, I don't think this kind of behavior is acceptable in real life but in fiction, it makes for an exciting story.

Now, if the story has a guy forcibly rape another guy who doesn't want it in any way,shape, or form, not even secretly, then yes, I'd probably find that offensive and not sexy. But when you have a couple and one of them is reluctant, then having one of them seduce the other makes for a more interesting story. (Seduction is what the old-timers would probably call it: nowadays there's just completely consensual sex or rape.)

Romances involving heterosexual couples are the same way; well, maybe not so much anymore. They didn't call them bodice-rippers for nothing. Anyway, it's not real and I think most people realize real life relationships are not like the ones portrayed in romance novels. (At
least, I hope.) It's just fantasy and that's why people like them because you get to experience things that you can't or shouldn't in real life.
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Past



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:59 pm Reply with quote
From my understanding (and the responses above), the majority of hentai manga, largely because almost all of it is doujinshi, seem to involve forced sex because as an expression of fantasy which it is, a respectful couple with all the bells and whistles of an honest romance that culminates in a night of non-lustful sex doesn't deviate from reality enough to qualify as fantasy sex found in hentai. While romance novels may portray sex as non-lustful and free of violence, the purpose of those types of books is to emphasize how perfect a romance could be, without excessive emotional baggage and angst that is usually attached to dating and relationships.

I think that is something that is more akin to yaoi manga than straight hentai. Because homosexuality is repressed in mainstream culture (although less so recently), yaoi seems to be an expression of the romance perfection that I mentioned in novels, because readers (typically women) are not placed in the characters shoes: Since the characters are male. Romance novel readers (typically women) also are not placed in the characters shoes because they recognize in reality a romance could never be this perfect.

So yaoi and romance novels have the commonality of being from an external POV while hentai is from an internal POV: the fantasy is derived from the reader imagining he is the male, or one of the male characters in the story. I think this distinction in what role fantasy plays in different genres of stories about sexually graphic romances forms the basis in determining whether non-consensual sex in fantasy is acceptable or not.

Sorry for going off on a tangent in this thread, but in Tyrant, with a character that is so adverse to homosexuality it just doesn't seem like a good formula for a book about any type of relationship. Usually in yaoi, characters seem resistant to intimacy with their partners because society discourages behavior which it considers deviant. The appeal of BL is that they are usually young romances, and this initial feeling of shame or denial of one's orientation creates tension that's often portrayed as non-consensual. In reality it's a reflection of the beauty of the lack of rules and boundaries when it comes to true love.
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carosene



Joined: 11 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:51 pm Reply with quote
I was kind of disappointed to see Tyrant get such a good review, and then I remembered "Oh yeah, up at that point, it wasn't apparent yet that the series only existed to have a rape every chapter..." And Tyrant did have the quality and the sexiness to get me a lot farther in the series than I'd like to admit...

But I'm very happy to see a intellectual discussion of con vs. non-con here! Very Happy

My experience is that most writers seem to think that consensual sex isn't hot. Shocked Because if it wasn't hot, nobody would be doing it. You'd think.

Seriously, non-consensual sex easily ties into a plot (Dude, this guy's trying to rape me!) and emotional drama. (Dude, this guy's raping me and I might be into it!) A hack-neyed, stereotyped, overdone plot. Not to mention not treating rape with all the seriousness it's due and ignoring the psychological scaring involved. Ever heard of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder? Yeah, that's love.

With consensual sex, it puts the burden of tying the sex to the plot on the writer. And sometimes it's an epic fail. I recently read a BL manga called "I Love You" by Youko Fujitani. It was a slice-of-life about a couple. But the sex felt so ridiculously out of place. It's like "Our relationship is a going-to-lunch/walking-to-work relationship! I shouldn't be here! Excuse me while I let myself out! You guys have fun!"

Though awkward consensual sex is leagues better than major Unfortunate Implications.

Maybe I shouldn't expect plot with my porn, but I can't help it. o.o If it weren't for Yoneda Kou I'd have given up on the stuff.
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vashfanatic



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 9:10 am Reply with quote
I don't read yaoi (it doesn't appeal to me as porn, though I don't mind a good BL series), but I will say that the nonconsensual aspect is far from exclusive to yaoi in terms of manga. The "forced seduction" trope (i.e. rape-is-love) gets trotted out in heterosexual adult manga too. And not just straight-up porn, I'm talking about your smutty josei romance novels. And it's rife with unfortunate implications:

-sexual repression justifies rape
-a rapist can tell that you subconsciously want it
-if you orgasm (even though this can be involuntary), it isn't really rape
-if you don't actively physically fight off your assailant, it isn't really rape
-if someone loves you or is in a relationship with you, it isn't really rape

Some people do have rape fantasies (i.e. in a safe situation like to pretend they're being forcibly "taken"), but the more frequently you see it in literature, the more depressing it gets. Why? Because these exact same arguments have been trotted out against raped women in real life! And when you add the additional horrid idea that men always want sex so they can't really be raped... you get the picture.

So just remember, folks, if you like this kind of fantasy, make sure you remember that it is fantasy. If this were real life, these ideas would be unacceptable and unethical.
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GracieLizzy



Joined: 26 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 12:57 pm Reply with quote
vashfanatic you have summarised why I can't read most yaoi or other hentai manga. I just find all the rape scenes a massive turn off for the exact reasons you just gave. Are there any good examples of yaoi or other hentai that doesn't have rape it in? At all? Or at least, not on panel nor between the primary couple?

Even in backstory rape can be troubling but at least then it is relegated to being a villainous act (usually). I've never understood the idea that consensual sex isn't sexy. I personally prefer it when I care about the characters involved, and I know they have feelings for each other as I like the emotional aspect of the scene in question.

I expect it's easier to find heterosexual hentai and yuri hentai that doesn't feature rape than it is with yaoi as rape is so, so, prevalent in that genre and it has yet to diversify much in that area.
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Parsifal24





PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 1:12 pm Reply with quote
When ever I hear the words non-consensual sex scene I check out mentally.

Also this just raises a question I've been batting around in my head for a little over a week. "Is Yaoi just the fetishistic use of someone elses sexuality for the readers own pleasure? And if so is it a double stranded that when women create Yaoi which uses Homosexual relationships it is looked upon sometimes as a form of female empowerment where as when men do the same thing with Lesbian sexuality that's looked upon as exploitative?"

I realize not all writers or readers of Yaoi/Boy's Love are women but this is just a question i had on my mind as of late.
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