Forum - View topic
Shelf Life - The Departed


Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Reaper gI



Joined: 05 Oct 2009
Posts: 299
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:22 am Reply with quote
Shigofumi's picture dramas are from the Japanese dvd release.
Many other Bandai Visual shows have them as well, like Code Geass or My-HiME.
It's a case of the English release actualy having the on disk extras.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
CCSYueh



Joined: 03 Jul 2004
Posts: 2707
Location: San Diego, CA

PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:42 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Maybe it's just my Toriyama-related madness talking, but I'm starting to think Vegeta looks pretty hot. There's just something about his widow's peak…

It's the spandex on that ass.
It's also that he has a brain. Yamcha & Krillin are pretty average IQ & we all know why Bulma dumped Yamcha (Come on-he has her but wants to watch the exercise shows like Roshi? You know Vegeta would never do that). Goku is way less than sharp. Unless you're into slugs, Vegeta's about it for intelligent conversation. I mean, Trunks is actually a kid so while it maybe ok to like teen Trunks, he sort of feels like pedophilia.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
GordanHam



Joined: 01 Mar 2009
Posts: 147

PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:49 am Reply with quote
Hahhaa.
The part with the androids farting around and stealing a truck actually is in the manga. I remember reading it thinking sort of same way,but hey, in the manga it is like a page so I can see how you can react that drastically about it in the anime when it is surrounded in pointless filler to begin with.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 3151

PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:47 am Reply with quote
Fumika's past and connections interweaving all the characters together make Shigofumi more compelling for me. Otherwise, it would have just been an anthology of short stories with nothing common between them except for receiving a shigofumi. The jigsaw puzzle analogy is apt but I actually like how everything is wrapped up in the end--a rarity for anime--with the picture dramas providing a nice bonus. Actually though, Birdy ended with everything wrapped up as well though in a round about way.

Quote:
Birdy fights a foe at an inhuman speed, and the show uses animated backgrounds and a scribble-y look to portray movement on the very edge of the eye's perception.

It might have seemed intentional... but to me it looked like they were either out of time or budget or both and decided to go with that sketchy style to cover it up. It was absolutely terrible, not just the look, but very low frame rate as well, as if they just colored in the pencil tests.

In fact they used similar short cuts in Birdy's childhood flashback when she went beserk on that robot. Even without the rough scribbly outline look, without even much or any action at all, the figures became super simplified and the fps became lower towards the end like Nataru's final encounter with Moss Kiri. The first season didn't suffer from any of this.

It's unfortunate that such a great show, with the second half being much better, is marred by such flawed visuals.

I do have to say that I enjoyed the way it was wrapped up with the past events "resolved" or spoiler[caused] by Nataru's ability and spoiler[his current/future actions]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
championferret



Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 630

PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:45 am Reply with quote
...I honestly can't figure out why 'Fumika's past is something that could only happen in anime or light novels' is said so negatively. Maybe it 's because...SHOCK HORROR! It's an anime and a light novel! Who could have thought that something that would only happen in an anime or a light novel would occur, in all places, in an anime and light novel.

"Shigofumi will collect dust on your shelf" is also a bit presumptious. This is one of my favourite anime, so it won't be on mine. I respect the reviewers opinions but statements like this imply that everyone will feel the same way as her.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Ian K



Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Posts: 243

PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:32 am Reply with quote
configspace wrote:
Quote:
Birdy fights a foe at an inhuman speed, and the show uses animated backgrounds and a scribble-y look to portray movement on the very edge of the eye's perception.

It might have seemed intentional... but to me it looked like they were either out of time or budget or both and decided to go with that sketchy style to cover it up. It was absolutely terrible, not just the look, but very low frame rate as well, as if they just colored in the pencil tests.

In fact they used similar short cuts in Birdy's childhood flashback when she went beserk on that robot. Even without the rough scribbly outline look, without even much or any action at all, the figures became super simplified and the fps became lower towards the end like Nataru's final encounter with Moss Kiri. The first season didn't suffer from any of this.

It's unfortunate that such a great show, with the second half being much better, is marred by such flawed visuals.

I do have to say that I enjoyed the way it was wrapped up with the past events "resolved" or spoiler[caused] by Nataru's ability and spoiler[his current/future actions]


We seem pretty much diametrically opposed. I felt the fight scenes looked really really cool. The simplified, fluid look allowed for a much better sense of motion, which is what really sells animated action scenes for me. The final fight spoiler[between Birdy and Nataru] is my favorite action scene ever animated.

Of course, it's cool if the style doesn't appeal to you, but I think you really aren't giving the animators enough credit for amount of thought and work they put into 'scribbley' scenes. There were a few times when the frame rate dropped, most noticeably in the flashback, but they were the exception, not the rule (and they did happen in the first season as well - watch episode 1 again).

In the final fight especially, the animators went all out - they actually animated shifts in perspective, like when Nataru jumps through a doorway and the camera follows him. You never see that attempted in anime.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Akukame



Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 115

PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:45 am Reply with quote
Ian K wrote:
configspace wrote:
Quote:
Birdy fights a foe at an inhuman speed, and the show uses animated backgrounds and a scribble-y look to portray movement on the very edge of the eye's perception.

It might have seemed intentional... but to me it looked like they were either out of time or budget or both and decided to go with that sketchy style to cover it up. It was absolutely terrible, not just the look, but very low frame rate as well, as if they just colored in the pencil tests.


We seem pretty much diametrically opposed. I felt the fight scenes looked really really cool. The simplified, fluid look allowed for a much better sense of motion, which is what really sells animated action scenes for me. The final fight spoiler[between Birdy and Nataru] is my favorite action scene ever animated.

Of course, it's cool if the style doesn't appeal to you, but I think you really aren't giving the animators enough credit for amount of thought and work they put into 'scribbley' scenes. There were a few times when the frame rate dropped, most noticeably in the flashback, but they were the exception, not the rule (and they did happen in the first season as well - watch episode 1 again).

In the final fight especially, the animators went all out - they actually animated shifts in perspective, like when Nataru jumps through a doorway and the camera follows him. You never see that attempted in anime.

I have to agree, the fight scene was gorgeously done. Though I think that there is a definate budget issue coming into play here, it works to the advantage.

When we're really looking at it, would you rather have a really fluid 30 second scene? Or would you rather have a very well choreographed scene, with all kinds of cinematography added in, that goes on for like 10 minutes, but where the characters themselves lack detail. (argueably its kind of weaved between other scenes of talking, but theres a whole lot there).

I think its worth noting that the director has used this style of fights before in the past. It was used quite heavily (though I don't think quite as well) in Noein. My understanding is, although nobody watched it (me included), it was used in Heatguy J aswell. So it'd be very difficult to assume it was made for purely budget reasons.

EDIT: PS. Although its definately ranked up there as one of my favorite fight scenes. My favorite animated fight scene still goes to the final fight in Sword of the Stranger. That one is truly amazing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
here-and-faraway



Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 1382
Location: Sunny California

PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:10 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Maybe it's just my Toriyama-related madness talking, but I'm starting to think Vegeta looks pretty hot. There's just something about his widow's peak…


And he really does rock those spandex... Embarassed
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JohnnySake



Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 557
Location: Auburn Hills, MI

PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:22 am Reply with quote
configspace wrote:
It might have seemed intentional... but to me it looked like they were either out of time or budget or both and decided to go with that sketchy style to cover it up. It was absolutely terrible, not just the look, but very low frame rate as well, as if they just colored in the pencil tests...

...It's unfortunate that such a great show, with the second half being much better, is marred by such flawed visuals.


I'm glad you said this because I was feeling the same way. I was sitting there trying to internally figure out if it was either cheapened animation or if it was some sort of artistic flair. Thankfully at the time I was too wrapped up with the story to worry too much about it. I made a conscious effort to not allow the artistry, or lack thereof, to detract from how much I was enjoying the story.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Chrno2



Joined: 28 May 2004
Posts: 4527
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:04 am Reply with quote
Now I want to see the 'Musical Muscle' show could be interesting. I've been curious about that Shigofumi. I really want to check it out. From what I've heard from folks around here that it's a pretty nice show. I don't mind shows like this. I mean I saw 'Ballad of the Shinigami' sometime back and I enjoyed it. If it's like that then I wouldn't mind. I was hoping someone would have released it since the manga was planning on being released. As for Birdy, I'm for it all the way.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address My Anime My Manga
vashfanatic



Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 3441
Location: Back stateside

PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:22 am Reply with quote
GordanHam wrote:
The part with the androids farting around and stealing a truck actually is in the manga. I remember reading it thinking sort of same way,but hey, in the manga it is like a page so I can see how you can react that drastically about it in the anime when it is surrounded in pointless filler to begin with.

Actually, that sounds precisely like the sort of filler you get in a lot of long-running anime; take one page and extend it into a full episode, that way you can still claim it's canon!

As for Vegeta being hot, well, he is a totally badass, both in brains and brawns, and if you close your eyes and imagine he's a foot taller than he actually is... Laughing I know, that's my biases, I like guys tall.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
Zhou-BR



Joined: 28 Feb 2008
Posts: 452

PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:32 am Reply with quote
People don't believe it when I say it, but DBZ's android saga is one of the most coherent, well-thought-out time travel stories I've ever seen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
garfield15



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 1365

PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:33 am Reply with quote
CCSYueh wrote:

It's also that he has a brain.

We're talking about the same Vegeta who had every opportunity to kill Cell but didn't because he wanted him to be Perfect right? Razz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 3151

PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:47 am Reply with quote
@Ian K, @Akukame

The first season had a few places where it was choppy but it was not as bad as it was in the second season, as you mentioned with the flashback with Violin http://www.youtube.com/​watch?​v=​OFZdB0LgZvI#​t=​16m10s
(which looked like they skipped tweening altogether)
and certainly had nothing like the simplified figures

(young Birdy, season 2, ep 7)
normal:


... to:


(final ep, Moss Kiri)
normal:


then moments later (no action)


... (during action), more of:


background buildings also affected, understandably though when animated



The choreography, scene direction, storyboarding, and story itself were done well! but I have to say the actual animation was not. In contrast to just about all shounen anime when they have to make sacrifices: save time and budget for the big important scenes. For example, all of the regularly crappy animation in Naruto have long been the butt of jokes. Yet, they don't skimp when it matters:
- clips:
http://www.youtube.com/​watch?​v=​tHCnqyEO35Y#​t=​3m25s
http://www.youtube.com/​watch?​v=​_dx4ddQnHws
http://www.youtube.com/​watch?​v=​UtdWXRXVsJw
As far as changing perspectives, camera movement goes, Birdy Decode definitely isn't the only one to feature it but I'll give that it's one of the longer sequences which does take much more effort doing it frame-by-frame as they did. But such cinematic techniques are used occasionally in many other shows and in a few instances in the clips above.

JohnnySake wrote:
I'm glad you said this because I was feeling the same way. I was sitting there trying to internally figure out if it was either cheapened animation or if it was some sort of artistic flair. Thankfully at the time I was too wrapped up with the story to worry too much about it. I made a conscious effort to not allow the artistry, or lack thereof, to detract from how much I was enjoying the story.

Yeah, which is good so I'd still recommend the series to everyone as well. For me it was just something that stood out (because it made me think "if only ..." )
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
braves



Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 2278
Location: Puerto Rico (but living in Texas)

PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:02 am Reply with quote
I honestly don't get this fixation on "fps". What are we judging? A first person shooter with tons of mayhem where 60 fps is mandatory?

In animation, it's not all about how many frames you use, it's how you use them. It's frame rate manipulation. It's timing, shapes, perspective, choreography, etc. Fixating on how "smooth" the animation is way too narrow-minded. You have to look at the bigger picture. You may as well say that Family Guy has tremendous animation since it's so smooth.

And no, they didn't have a budget issue.

Quote:
For example, all of the regularly crappy animation in Naruto have long been the butt of jokes. Yet, they don't skimp when it matters
Funny, 'cause Birdy used some of the animators in those episodes that actually worked on the bigger episodes of Naruto. Namely Norio Matsumoto, Shingo Yamashita, Kenichi Kutsuna and Ryo-timo. Others on the Birdy staff for 7 & 12 where Tomoyuki Niho, Takahiro Kishida and Yuusuke Tanaka.

I would admit that Niho's probably the worst "offender" on this list, but not the others.

EDIT: Honestly, is the change in visual style from one episode to another so distracting for some? I saw that was the biggest complaint over on AoD and I simply can't relate.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website My Anime My Manga
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group