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INTEREST: Ender's Game Author Praises Cowboy Bebop


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nhat



Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 918
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:14 pm Reply with quote
You really have to give credit where it's due.

I seen people talking about great works of animation being put down (especially anime fans themselves) only because they are "animation." Animation storytelling and characterization can be as good anything live action or any other media.


Last edited by nhat on Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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Apollo-kun



Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 1213
Location: City 7, Macross 7
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:23 pm Reply with quote
Nice seeing Bebop getting mentioned in the press. In my opinion, it's finest anime series ever produced, and hopefully this article will inspire somebody to pick it up and immerse themselves
in it's rich, intricately woven world. Smile
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thenextday



Joined: 08 Nov 2009
Posts: 75
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:32 pm Reply with quote
Orson Scott Card is a bro. Ender's Game is great.
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doctordoom85



Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 2019
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:35 pm Reply with quote
Cowboy Bebop is my favorite anime, and definitely one of the most fitting choices to use to introduce someone to anime.

Man, I hope Mr. Card's daughter did not have to pay THAT much for the DVDs, the Bandai Anime Legends boxset should still be in-print and going for $40 or less.

My mom watched Paranoia Agent with me, enjoyed it, and now treats anime with a lot more respect, so I too was able to at least get one parent to "see the light".
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xBTAx



Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Posts: 181
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:44 pm Reply with quote
thenextday wrote:
Orson Scott Card is a bro. Ender's Game is great.


Because it's going to come up eventually... I love the Ender's Game series. They're some of my favorite books. But... I'm not really a fan of Card himself anymore due to some of his political views that he's become very vocal about. Mad
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The Nagabuchi



Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 103
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:44 pm Reply with quote
Great to see the classic getting some mainstream acknowledgement.
Having said that, I always find it funny (if not a little sad) that the show that the West holds up as an example of the penultimate anime is a title that is pretty much unknown of in Japan. The only people I've ever met who knew Bebop were in a Japanese Yoko Kanno fan circle.
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 8256
Location: IL
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:56 pm Reply with quote
xBTAx wrote:
Because it's going to come up eventually... I love the Ender's Game series. They're some of my favorite books. But... I'm not really a fan of Card himself anymore due to some of his political views that he's become very vocal about. Mad

Oh man. Here I thought I'd actually see one mention of Card without this.

Guess I overestimated the ANN forumgoers.

EDIT: Homophobia? The ignorance is amazing.

Protip: You can be against same-sex marriage without being homophobic.


Last edited by Megiddo on Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:00 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Nekusagi



Joined: 22 Jun 2009
Posts: 49
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:58 pm Reply with quote
thenextday wrote:
Orson Scott Card is a bro. Ender's Game is great.

While I'm happy an established science fiction author is a fan of Cowboy Bebop, I'm a little bugged it has to be one notorious for his homophobia and far-right conservatism, to be honest.
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TokyoGetter



Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 416
Location: CA. You can tell by the low moral standards.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:22 pm Reply with quote
Megiddo wrote:
xBTAx wrote:
Because it's going to come up eventually... I love the Ender's Game series. They're some of my favorite books. But... I'm not really a fan of Card himself anymore due to some of his political views that he's become very vocal about. Mad

Oh man. Here I thought I'd actually see one mention of Card without this.

Guess I overestimated the ANN forumgoers.

EDIT: Homophobia? The ignorance is amazing.

Protip: You can be against same-sex marriage without being homophobic.


Yeah, but it doesn't mean that his taking an officious stance towards somebody else's bidness is cool. I personally DO think he's a homophobe from what I've read; it seems to come out of fear.

"Oh the man-kissers are marryin' each other! I might have to explain something!"
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Lightning Leo



Joined: 04 Jul 2010
Posts: 311
Location: Earth
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:32 pm Reply with quote
I never heard of Orson Scott Card, or his work Ender's Game. However, sharing the awesomeness of Cowboy Bebop with the world is definitely a cool thing in my book, controversial political opinions notwithstanding. Very Happy

I wonder if this will lend more likelihood to the Hollywood film being produced?
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Leon Evolon



Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 212
Location: Crazytowne
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:51 pm Reply with quote
Funny how this article came so close on the heels of the one about the live action adaptation. It's almost as though there's some sort of subliminal messaging going on -- ANN is telling you to watch Bebop, now go forth minions and create more fans! Twisted Evil

And I'm not even going to comment on OS Card's personal life, because it has nothing to do with how wonderful some of his stories are. Ender's Game was one of my early science fiction favorites but I really need to go back and re-read it... I've forgotten most of the premise behind it.
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Zac
Subscriber
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:00 pm Reply with quote
Megiddo wrote:


Protip: You can be against same-sex marriage while insisting to yourself and others that you aren't a homophobe but nobody really buys it


Fixed that for you.

And now that both sides have been mentioned, this thread can either go back to discussing Ender's Game and Cowboy Bebop or swiftly get locked.
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Anime World Order



Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 387
Location: Florida
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:24 pm Reply with quote
Time truly is a relative quantity. To one heavily invested within the realm of literary science fiction such as Card, the "classics" are defined by what was released around the turn of the 20th century. Works from the 1970s would often be considered "modern" in these circles. So it is that he has little reservation about using Cowboy Bebop as a "contemporary" example of Japanese animation. 1998-2001 wasn't that long ago by comparison.

But here's the thing: about half of the anime fans I encounter today, in 2011, have never seen Cowboy Bebop at all. I explained why that is in more detail here, but the short of it is that 13 years is longer than a lifetime in the realm of anime fandom. Something is "old" if it's "from the last season." People don't really have time to go back to things from "all the way back in the 90s." It's been this way for a while; most of the people who have seen Cowboy Bebop are ones who saw it several years ago, when it was "new."

I only mention this because so much has changed about anime in the decade that's passed since Cowboy Bebop's final installment. Whereas in the 1970s and 1980s anime was first and foremost considered a "science fiction" pursuit because otaku and anime creators were initially drawing their influences and inspirations from the notion of "Progress and Harmony for Mankind" per the 1970 World's Fair and titles such as Star Wars/Trek, the realms of outer space just haven't had the same allure to people since the dawn of the new millennium. The current anime creating and viewing audience is more captivated by inward-looking stories rather than outward-looking ones, and so sci-fi is something of a novelty at this point. Mention "anime" in most non-anime dedicated discussion forums nowadays, and the common perception will have more to do with works for very young kids...or works for people who like very young kids...

The Spring 2011 guide shows that SF anime isn't completely gone, but it's definitely in short supply. When people say the word "anime" it doesn't instantly conjure up notions of starships and interstellar travel. If someone says they're an "otaku," you no longer immediately assume they are adept at assembling their own electronics. The world that Card speaks of is a thing of the past, and Cowboy Bebop was one of the swan songs of that era. Perhaps you might know some people who wouldn't really call themselves anime fans, but didn't mind Cowboy Bebop or FLCL? Those both came out a long, long time ago.

I wasn't there but at the New York Anime Festival it was widely reported that the crowd packed the room to see the new Haruhi Suzumiya, which despite being a series with elements of the fantastic is not something you'd typically hear described as a hard SF tale. By contrast, the attendance for the premiere of the through-and-through science fiction anime Mardock Scramble was downright minimal, and that title still hasn't even come out on video.

Make no mistake: Cowboy Bebop is great and I want everyone to watch it. But let's not accept the claim that it's indicative of anime, because it's an anomaly. How I wish I was wrong.
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Echo_City



Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Posts: 1236
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:48 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Card compares it to the Joss Whedon live-action television series Firefly, wondering if Whedon's show was itself inspired by the anime.

Sheesh, not THIS again. This implies that Firefly was somehow less than CB, when it was far, far greater. Shoot, the Civil War, American Westerns, or even Outlaw Star could be said to be more inspirational than CB. Even if CB were inspiration to Whedon, the aforementioned others would clearly be moreso.

Being a history buff, you'd think Card would see that the Civil War had an insurmountable influence on Firefly, far more noteworthy than any influence CB could have wielded. Card also writes that he was greatly influenced by Army of the Potomac, which is about the Civil War. Perhaps he ignores this due to his personal bias exhibited in his same quote?

Though I wonder why is Orson Scott Card levying his opinion on CB, edifying it above other works of Science Fiction? He does not seem particularly qualified to make such statements. Card writes that he has a deficiency in actual sciences, and so makes his science fiction based off of what he does know, history, and merely coats it in a scifi wrapper. Perhaps his credibility would be best suited for a historical work, or at least a science fiction work rooted in history (Like the Foundation series he seeks to homage).

Cowboy Bebop has next to nothing to do with history. Nor do the science fiction works he is holding CB to be better then. What then, besides money and fame, are his qualifications for nominating himself such a critic? With his influence, he should perhaps restrain himself to his true areas of expertise. People won't evaluate Card's relevant credentials for making such a statement, and might be influenced towards accepting spurious judgment just because a famous dude said them. This is my fear, especially how CB was not work of science fiction per se. A character drama, sure, it was good. But then why only compare it to other works in the scifi genre, rather than to all character dramas?

In the realm of science fiction, CB can't even hold a candle to its fellow Sunrise production, Planetes.

(Referring to what Card wrote in the 1991 prologue for the "author's definitive edition of Ender's Game)
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 8256
Location: IL
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:55 pm Reply with quote
Wow Echo, I had no idea that you held the Rhinoceros Times as some sort of bastion for artistic acknowledgement. I do wonder who you would feel it would be appropriate to recommend a title to non-anime fans in some small column of a conservative newspaper.
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