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NEWS: Slam Dunk Plagiarism Scandal


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freshkazuki



Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 235
Location: Texas
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:33 pm Reply with quote
Ok, this is now starting to get dumb. So next are they going to say his basketball was modeled on the basketball from the first ever basketball game? Or someone owns the copyright on a jump shot. I'm sorry but the human body can only be in so many positions when it plays any sports. If you looked at every basketball game every night, I'm sure you could get pictures of players in the exact same pose. To me, this sounds as if someone is trying to even the score with the Slam Dunk artist.
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konosuke15



Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 67
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:40 pm Reply with quote
if i ever watched Basketball, those were positions i usually saw. Its not uncommon, so this is plain and outright dumb.....

can we say 'Flower of Eden' fans taking on revenge? o.o
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YourNeighborTotoro



Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 90
Location: On this forum...No Duh
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:46 pm Reply with quote
He didn't lie in that interview. He said he used magazine pictures that he remembered...
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Hi no Neko



Joined: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 204
Location: Austin, TX
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:48 pm Reply with quote
While I admit that some of those pictures do look very similar, a good number of them also look like . . . well, like people playing basketball.

Unless there's a very strict copyright on those photos or something, I don't see what the big deal is. What, I'm not allowed to use a tree photo as refference in my art anymore?
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noneko_Mamimi



Joined: 05 Dec 2004
Posts: 41
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:53 pm Reply with quote
freshkazuki wrote:
Ok, this is now starting to get dumb. So next are they going to say his basketball was modeled on the basketball from the first ever basketball game? Or someone owns the copyright on a jump shot. I'm sorry but the human body can only be in so many positions when it plays any sports. If you looked at every basketball game every night, I'm sure you could get pictures of players in the exact same pose. To me, this sounds as if someone is trying to even the score with the Slam Dunk artist.


It really is stupid. I mean, there are plenty of characters in manga that were modeled after a celebrity, and i really don't think you can just draw out a game of basketball without reference pictures.
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darkhunter



Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 2992
Location: Los Angelas
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:56 pm Reply with quote
Inoue acknowledge that fact that he use NBA photo as references several years ago. Many artist use picture for reference. It's not like he kept it a secret and didn't let anybody know what he was up to. Inoue did 30 volumes of Slam Dunk with over 1000 panal of basketball scene and all they got was 9 scenes from NBA photo that he acknowledges using, and say Inoue couldn't draw bball so he had to plagiarize? I think the fans of Flower of Eden are just really mad.

This is almost as bad as Diamon Dallas Page (former wrestler) sueing Jay-Z (multi-millionaire rapper), becaue they both use the same hand-sign: The Diamond cutter and the Roc symbol.


Last edited by darkhunter on Fri Dec 23, 2005 2:35 am; edited 3 times in total
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Ztarr



Joined: 15 Mar 2005
Posts: 44
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 10:25 pm Reply with quote
can you copyright poses?

Is it plagerism to draw from a picture you've seen but replace the person with you own original character?

I know it would be plagerism if you traced an entire picture and didn't even change the characters.

Is this plagerism?:







seriously, I want to know, because I'm an artist and this is probably my most extreme example of using someone else's pose. I do not intend to plagerize and would never want to.
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wildarmsheero



Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 55
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 10:27 pm Reply with quote
A lot of anime copies shots and borrows story elements from various movies. Are all their creators going to be accused of plagiarising too? This is silly. Everyone uses photos as references.
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EroKaos



Joined: 13 Feb 2005
Posts: 7
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 10:33 pm Reply with quote
... Im speechless. And no is not about the similarities. This is just plain bullcrap. This is not plagiarism, Inoue is not using any of the pictures themselves in the manga. How is a person suppose to draw manga if he can use poses that are used by everybody playing basketball?

The people how started this conflict or whatever you want to call it should do a little more research on what plagiarism means.
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purple_monkey



Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 48
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:25 pm Reply with quote
This is dumb. I mean, even if the guy didn't go by pics of basketball players, how many drawings do you think the mangaka could do before one looks like a real pic? You watch enough basketball (actually if you've seen more than three shots ever), and you'll notice players copy each other (you know, like how the hook shot came from one player and all others "copy" that guy) because they're smart. They use what works.

I really feel sorry for the artist whose forced to draw every jump shot different from any pic of a jump shot (if that artist could get beyond 1 page of his manga before he was "plagiarising").

(And I thought the "assault on Chirstmas" in the states was stupid.)
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LordRobin



Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Posts: 354
Location: Akron, OH
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:29 pm Reply with quote
I fail to see what the big deal is. In "Even a Monkey Can Draw Manga", it's stated that doing "swipes" (as they're called on this side of the Pacific) are a long-standing tradition in manga. If you need a specific pose, it's recommended that you search through your manga collection for an example of that pose and copy it. (Barring that, have a friend pose for you -- which was the humorous ending to that episode.)

------RM
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LordRobin



Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Posts: 354
Location: Akron, OH
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:35 pm Reply with quote
Oh, and looking at the "trace" site, though I can see the resemblance in some of the images, others seem like a bit of a reach. The basic shot is the same, but the details are different.

------RM
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sclassen



Joined: 18 Mar 2005
Posts: 3
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:37 pm Reply with quote
Wow, he plagerized the jump shot. Shocked It's shocking!

Seriously though, almost all artists (inside and outside of mangas) use photo refrences. I just watched a short documentry on a Jim Dine in which he was using photographs as refrences. I was just assigned in one of my art classes to get a photograph of some scenery and draw it. Am I going to plagerize a forest now?
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Sketchee



Joined: 22 Jul 2003
Posts: 65
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:38 am Reply with quote
This is kind of silly. Even American comic artist Scott McDaniel recommonds doing this: http://www.scottmcdaniel.net/drawing/drawexer/char.html

"Bodybuilder Albert Beckles becomes Kraven the Hunter!!" "Bodybuilder Barry DeMey becomes the Silver Surver!!" "Talk-Show host Phil Donahue becomes the Supreme Intelligence!!"

http://www.scottmcdaniel.net/drawing/drawexer/dual.html

"Wrestler Ric Flair becomes Lion-O!!" "Basketball star Isaiah Thomas becomes Spider-man!!" "Baseball star John Franco becomes Wolverine!!"


If it's okay for an American artist to say he does this right on his own website ... and that he recommends it to others... I don't see the problem... At least by American standards. Are things so different in Japan?

Andy Smith recommends the same thing in his book Drawing Dynamic comics
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Shale



Joined: 04 Dec 2002
Posts: 337
Location: The Middle of Nowhere, DE
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 1:23 am Reply with quote
Setting aside for a moment that you can't plagarize real life, for God's sake, I'd just like to point out that if you couldn't look at one if Inoue's action shots and find one of the hundreds of thousands of available basketball photos that it looked like, it wouldn't mean he was being original, it'd mean his art sucked and was completely unrealistic.

Assuming that people are using proper form, you'll only see a few "poses" in a game of basketball, and over a single season, much less however many years those comparisons cover, you'll get pictures of those few poses from every conceivable angle, at every part of the action. As long as Inoue's drawing realistic action, it'd be a miracle if you couldn't find any pictures it looked like.
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