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Viz Censors Flame of Recca


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Wolverine Princess



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1100
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 9:48 pm Reply with quote
I found this out from the Anime on DVD Manga Editing forum. Volume twenty of the Flame of Recca manga was censored to remove the nipples in every scene showcasing topless female characters. I can't find any scans of the English version, but here are a few scenes from the Japanese tank that were edited:

page 96
page 98
page 103

There are also reports of pages 104 and 109 being censored. Although I haven't been following this series, I don't approve of censorship in the slightest and wanted to spread the word that Viz has once again edited one of their series. Hopefully those who have been reading Flame of Recca will reconsider purchasing this edited volume.
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unhealthyman



Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 306
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 10:20 pm Reply with quote


There we go, much more acceptable. Viz can send me a cheque or something. I've even censored it in an authentic American style.
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Swordfish_II



Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 617
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 10:52 pm Reply with quote
Heaven forbid people see a goddamn nipple.

At least we still get to partake in the rape and other assorted violence uncensored.

Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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JoshuaStChristopher



Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 351
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:59 am Reply with quote
Since it isn't Fullmetal Alchemist, I predict no one will really care that much.
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bahamut623



Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 1463
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 1:26 am Reply with quote
It's just nipples(ugly ones at that Confused), who cares if they're there or not, unless the crux of Flame of Recca lies in those nipples....which I doubt. Definitely not worth boycotting or anything lol.
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animalia555



Joined: 12 Jun 2004
Posts: 467
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 1:38 am Reply with quote
That seems so unlikely as they have had plently of nipples on girls in the past in Flame Of Recca.
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Richard J.



Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 3367
Location: Sic Semper Tyrannis.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:01 am Reply with quote
bahamut623 wrote:
It's just nipples(ugly ones at that Confused), who cares if they're there or not, unless the crux of Flame of Recca lies in those nipples....which I doubt. Definitely not worth boycotting or anything lol.
It's a matter of principle. Consider this: how far can the editing go once they start? Will it just be a few nipples or will it be whole scenes altered? Maybe entire plot lines altered by removing key references to events? (Don't think this can happen? Take a look at a few of the majorly edited titles like Tenjho Tenge.)

The point is, once the companies start editing, they may not stop. Manga has been treated very badly in the past in an effort to make it more marketable to the "masses" and as fans we should all try to keep the mistakes of the past from being repeated.

Also, regardless of the actual importance of the edit overall, what does this say about Viz as a company? Since when is censorship something to just wave away? As Americans, we have a right to protest content we don't like. We also have a right to stand up for the protected rights of free artistic expression even if that expression is from a foreign country and being sold for commerical profit. Viz should listen to us, the people buying their products, not to a few whiny bookstore people who are trying to bully them and bluffing anyway. (Oh yeah, like Borders wants to pull product off it's shelves that sells well. Rolling Eyes )

animalia555 wrote:
That seems so unlikely as they have had plently of nipples on girls in the past in Flame Of Recca.
Companies have had these sudden changes of heart before. Tokyopop was releasing Moonphase unedited and then suddenly started removing nipples while leaving in bondage.

Weird? Yes. Logical? Nope. Did it happen? Oh yeah.
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fighterholic



Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 9193
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:23 am Reply with quote
Doesn't suprise me at all. From what I've been hearing about edits over here and such, I'd be surprised if they left any in.
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Kagemusha



Joined: 20 Feb 2004
Posts: 2783
Location: Boston
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 3:51 am Reply with quote
Richard J. wrote:
bahamut623 wrote:
It's just nipples(ugly ones at that Confused), who cares if they're there or not, unless the crux of Flame of Recca lies in those nipples....which I doubt. Definitely not worth boycotting or anything lol.
It's a matter of principle. Consider this: how far can the editing go once they start? Will it just be a few nipples or will it be whole scenes altered? Maybe entire plot lines altered by removing key references to events? (Don't think this can happen? Take a look at a few of the majorly edited titles like Tenjho Tenge.)

The point is, once the companies start editing, they may not stop. Manga has been treated very badly in the past in an effort to make it more marketable to the "masses" and as fans we should all try to keep the mistakes of the past from being repeated.

Also, regardless of the actual importance of the edit overall, what does this say about Viz as a company? Since when is censorship something to just wave away? As Americans, we have a right to protest content we don't like. We also have a right to stand up for the protected rights of free artistic expression even if that expression is from a foreign country and being sold for commerical profit. Viz should listen to us, the people buying their products, not to a few whiny bookstore people who are trying to bully them and bluffing anyway. (Oh yeah, like Borders wants to pull product off it's shelves that sells well. Rolling Eyes )


Simply put, no. This isn't a matter of a manga's artistic integrity being ruined, or defending freedom of speech, it's a matter of pointless fanservice being excluded to better sell to the mangas target audience. Why don't they edit the controversal content in Drifting Classroom or Phoenix? Because it not only has a point, but the audience wouldn't take edits that seriously effect the story. We saw that in Tenten (which, to be honest, had nothing but fanservice and a pointless rape scene edited out) that fans don't tolerate mass editing, and no company in english is stupid enough to edit something to that degree right now. People are still going to buy Flame because (hopefully) they're reading it for reasons other than wanking matterial. It's unfortunate that it was edited and all, and as a paying customer you've got every right to protest Viz, but lets not blow this out of proportion and act like they're going to censor everything they release. And the manga-ka didn't seem to have a problem with the edits if it meant a paycheck, so it's not like they're skrewing him over.
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Richard J.



Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 3367
Location: Sic Semper Tyrannis.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 4:13 am Reply with quote
Kagemusha wrote:
We saw that in Tenten (which, to be honest, had nothing but fanservice and a pointless rape scene edited out) that fans don't tolerate mass editing, and no company in english is stupid enough to edit something to that degree right now.
So your point is that fan outrage convinced the companies not to do mass edits but fans have no reason to get worked up over minor ones? You actually believe that if we completely ignore minor edits that they won't eventually start doing major ones again?

What exactly makes you think that they won't start editing titles again on a large scale if we don't keep them in check? Do you really expect them to not want to increase the number of people that a title can be sold to? That was the whole point behind the massive editing of Tenjho Tenge, they wanted to sell it to a younger age group than it was possible to unedited.

You obviously don't view this as a free speech issue or a matter of integrity. You have the right to disagree with me about this. However, there are many who do view this as an issue of free speech and expression.

Where you see pointless fanservice and a scene which I think can be argued to be important to the plot, I see the vision of an artist being altered for no reason other than a desire to water down something so that losers who don't have anything better to do than complain won't be offended. I hate that sort of PC crap and I find it shameful for a corporation to succumb to such insipid nonsense.

Also, I fully believe that this is one of those proverbial "slippery slopes." Once a company starts editing, it becomes easier and easier to do it again and more drastically, unless they are called on it.

I'm not calling for a ban on Viz manga. Heck, I'm buying Claymore from them and there were some minor edits to it in a few scenes. I'm not going to burn my manga over something minor, but I also can't stop thinking that next time might be something a lot bigger.

You don't agree with me, that's just fine. Just remember that they can edit your favorite series at any time, in any way, that they want. I hope that they leave your favorites alone but don't assume they will and don't assume that no one will pull a 4kids! on a manga series.
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 15304
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 5:16 am Reply with quote
It sucks, but it's halfway through the series, and I doubt I'm going to stop reading it now, seeing as I want to finish the damn thing. But if Viz pulls this crap with any of their Editor's Choice titles, I'll stop buying from them.
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Kagemusha



Joined: 20 Feb 2004
Posts: 2783
Location: Boston
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 6:02 am Reply with quote
Quote:
So your point is that fan outrage convinced the companies not to do mass edits but fans have no reason to get worked up over minor ones? You actually believe that if we completely ignore minor edits that they won't eventually start doing major ones again?


Like I said above, there was a fan outrage over a major editing: Tenjo Tenge. CMX attempted to make major alterations to manga that went beyond Viz's minor changes, and they paid for it dearly, in terms of both sales of that title and the overall
status in the market. Viz is as slow as can be when it comes to spotting marketing trends, but even they're not so stupid as to pull something that major and expect to get away with it. The fact remains that many manga companies have in some way edited or censored their products in the past and continue to do so. Tokyopop did a similar thing as recently as this year. Unfortunate, but I seriously doubt that any company would edit to a manga like CMX did. It's simply too risky.

Quote:

Where you see pointless fanservice and a scene which I think can be argued to be important to the plot, I see the vision of an artist being altered for no reason other than a desire to water down something so that losers who don't have anything better to do than complain won't be offended. I hate that sort of PC crap and I find it shameful for a corporation to succumb to such insipid nonsense.


How do nipples constitute as something of importance to the plot? And apparently the vision of the artist wasn't as important to him as money, because Viz can't just do whatever they want with a given manga. Either than or he felt as I do: editing three pages of fanservice shouldn't effect the reader's enjoyment of his manga. It happens all the time with movies, and unless new information surfaces this doesn't seem to be too diffrent from one of those many examples that you'll see today in the theatres.

Quote:

You don't agree with me, that's just fine. Just remember that they can edit your favorite series at any time, in any way, that they want. I hope that they leave your favorites alone but don't assume they will and don't assume that no one will pull a 4kids! on a manga series.


And if they edit out insignifigant fanservice in a series that I like I'll continue to buy it. For the record, I'm against censorship in any form and I do think it's rather silly to edit something of this nature. I'd probobly be more outraged if I had more investment in the series, or if this wasn't so minor compared to alot of the crap that happens in the comic industry.
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Vahn17



Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Posts: 21
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:51 pm Reply with quote
I do find it kind of odd that they pull this now. Flame of Recca is more than halfway finished. If they think they can pull in new readers at this point (especially by making minor nudity edits) they are incorrect. People aren't gonna say "Hey, Volume 20 of Flame of Recca, I think I'll buy it and start really far into the story." That obviously makes no sense. Regardless of the overall importance to the story, it is just a strange thing to do.
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animalia555



Joined: 12 Jun 2004
Posts: 467
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 3:27 pm Reply with quote
Vahn17 wrote:
I do find it kind of odd that they pull this now. Flame of Recca is more than halfway finished. If they think they can pull in new readers at this point (especially by making minor nudity edits) they are incorrect. People aren't gonna say "Hey, Volume 20 of Flame of Recca, I think I'll buy it and start really far into the story." That obviously makes no sense. Regardless of the overall importance to the story, it is just a strange thing to do.
I agree. I just hope this isn't a sign that they are going to go back and edit future releases of past volumes.
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Abarenbo Shogun



Joined: 19 Jul 2005
Posts: 1573
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 4:24 am Reply with quote
Kinda odd given they just released the last volume of Hot Gimmick, and that was bagged and tagged. Red River also has had thier latest volumes bagged and tagged.

So why the edits now? Question
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