Forum - View topic
The List - 6 Japan-International Co-Productions Revisited


Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Nyron
It...it's not like I post for you or anything!It...it's not like I post for you or anything!


Joined: 16 May 2013
Posts: 160
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:03 am Reply with quote
No mention of Oban Star Racers smfh
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
killjoy_the



Joined: 30 May 2015
Posts: 1970
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:15 am Reply with quote
I like how "All of the above" is actually the first choice.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
cyberdraco



Joined: 30 Jun 2013
Posts: 312
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:16 am Reply with quote
I still think Kira from Seed shouldn't be in the poll because they were never called Newtypes in Seed or Seed Destiny, they were called Coordinators.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jex2193



Joined: 28 Jan 2014
Posts: 252
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:25 am Reply with quote
I don't know, if it looks like anime but is made elsewhere I usually refer to it as American or Western Anime...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
EnigmaticSky



Joined: 06 Aug 2011
Posts: 746
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:31 am Reply with quote
I think at the end of the day it's kinda ridiculous to draw lines in the sand. You can't say it's based on art, because it can vary, and even what is the trend for animation in anime changes. Saying the staff has to be "pure-blooded Japanese" is well, ridiculous. Can you imagine anyone getting as uptight about french animation as some people do anime? "I only watch french animation, called frenchimation, and don't you dare call it cartoons. Oh wait, the director was actually Japanese, dropping this show." At the end of the day we all like what are essentially animated foreign films, sometimes in short form television programs, and sometimes motion pictures. Animation frees you of the limits of filming reality and allows you to abstract details, allowing for various new storytelling techniques. I mean I know a lot of people think "cartoon" is a dirty word, but I mean... why? Does it have to be anime because it sounds cooler and more socially acceptable, like when comic books were calling themselves "graphic novels?"

I just like good movies, and I tend to particularly enjoy Japanese animated films. Who cares about what you call it. I'll watch any movie about anything from anywhere if it's good. Yes, even if I have to call it a cartoon because it's from somewhere else.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DrXL



Joined: 24 Dec 2013
Posts: 9
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:38 am Reply with quote
Thunderbolt Fantasy also qualifies for this list arguably, since even though it was produced by a Taiwanese Puppet company the style that the show has is more anime fantasy melodrama. Not to mention Gen Urobuchi leading the helm. Even Crunchyroll placed the show in their anime category and ANN included it in their Weekly Episode reviews.

I've had this conversation with a lot of others in my anime club so I will admit personal bias, but I do feel that it qualifies as an anime even though it is a puppet show. I mean, when you consider medium in the mix, does CG count as anime? And if only hand drawn animation counts, then all shows past the mid-2000s no longer qualify. It's an interesting idea.

In my opinion inclusiveness is the best way to approach it, since the world is becoming more and more global we only stand to gain by appreciating the style as the indicator of Anime over other factors
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Parsifal24



Joined: 20 Apr 2010
Posts: 950
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:46 am Reply with quote
The Mysterious Cities of Gold didn't get included either something can have a non-Japanese source material and still be Anime or be co-funded by a foreign company and still be Anime.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
7jaws7



Joined: 17 Aug 2013
Posts: 613
Location: New York State
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:03 am Reply with quote
Animation that is made in Japan, end of story.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
meruru



Joined: 16 Jun 2009
Posts: 386
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:12 am Reply with quote
To me anime is defined by who directed it. I think this is a pretty relevant definition because it's EXTREMELY common to farm out the actual animation to other countries, and it's always been very common. In the past, Japan was a great place to get cheap animation, so many older things were animated in Japan. Now, Korea's often cheaper, so pay attention to the credits on anime, and you'll notice a lot of them have Korean animators. This list doesn't remotely show all the crossover that happens between countries. If you take a look at the directors for shows mentioned on this list, directors' nationality 100% aligns with which shows people generally consider anime, and which shows are not.

The Last Unicorn was directed by Jules Bass and Arthur Rankin Jr. Not anime.

Bloodivores chief director: Masashi Nakamura. To Be Hero's director: Shinichi Watanabe. Cheating Craft's director: Keitaro Motonaga. All anime.

Adventure Time's numerous directors were all not Japanese. Not anime.

Big O's director: Kazuyoshi Katayama. Anime.

Supernatural's directors: Atsuko Ishizuka and Shigeyuki Miya. Anime.

Simple.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NearEasternerJ1



Joined: 29 Sep 2015
Posts: 395
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:12 am Reply with quote
The Last Unicorn is NOT anime. It was produced, written and scripted in America and animated in Japan. That is NOT what an anime is.

Anime has to be PRIMARILY produced in Japan, PRIMARILY for a Japanese audience. I raised this issue about a year ago with Batman Gotham Knight. It should have a "U.S." tag on it since the executive directors, producers and are American. Toshi Hiruma is American, contrary to popular belief, albeit of Japanese roots. The only anime thing about it were the lip flaps and those were done in English before it was done in Japanese.

The first few Ghost in the Shell anime were produced by American and British companies (Yes, Bandai Ent was an American company; shouldn't have to belabor the obvious) but are anime due to its intended target and primary Japanese production, direction and screenplay.

Interestingly, ANN are not consistent on this. Why are Mega Man, Transformers and Street Fighter coded as "U.S." shows on here despite the fact that a lot of the production of these shows were partially Japanese, but Batman Gotham Knight was not? I mean come on.

Conclusion: Anime is primarily Japanese. Yes, in Japan, all cartoons are anime, BUT we're speaking in English and words mean different things in different languages. "Bae" means shit in Danish and "babe" in English.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hiroki not Takuya



Joined: 17 Apr 2012
Posts: 1297
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:21 am Reply with quote
I am a little surprised that with the one episode of Adventure Time being mentioned that The Amazing World of Gumball wasn't since the recent episode "The Fury" has proven tremendously popular among fans and had a good chunk animated by Studio 4*C of anime fame. Personally, I believe that while there are several art styles that encompass anime in the last few decades, the styles having originated in Japan qualifies shows with those styles as anime whether they they have any Japanese people involved or not (witness Mike Inel's YT adaptations). Conversely, Panty and Stocking with Garterbelt I view as non-anime as the art style I believe obviously borrows from American animated shows like Kim Possible and Jimmy Neutron, a feature not lost on several commentators. Also a little surprised Avatar:The Last Airbender isn't mentioned as the creators and part of the staff were American and there is a Forum topic "Is Avatar:The Last Aribender Anime?" here on ANN.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Triltaison



Joined: 03 Jul 2011
Posts: 315
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:21 am Reply with quote
Special mention to all those Russo-Japanese animated projects from around the Soviet era? Family fare like Enoki and Souyzmult Film's Scamper the Penguin was co-produced for both Russian and Japanese children, trying to appeal to both countries' audiences and was released simultaneously. Then the English version edited around it, and even arbitrarily changed the actual animated material around. I have some images comparing Scamper's English version to the Russo-Japanese one here, showing how the English one (smaller images) changed the backgrounds of the actual animation from the original Russo-Japanese (larger images) while using the same cels:

spoiler[






]


Does the Russian backing and audience make it not anime, despite it being a coproduction with Japan? Does the English one still count if it has scenes entirely reshot, using the same cels but different backgrounds?

There's a whole pile of Russo-Japanese fare in a similar state from that time frame.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
L'Imperatore



Joined: 24 Mar 2014
Posts: 449
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:49 am Reply with quote
meruru wrote:
To me anime is defined by who directed it.

........
If you take a look at the directors for shows mentioned on this list, directors' nationality 100% aligns with which shows people generally consider anime, and which shows are not.

Using this definition, unless US-born Michael Arias has changed his nationality, then his two directorial works, Tekkonkinkreet and Harmony, don't count as "anime".

And the first Emon Animation Company's work, Hitori no shita the outcast, is directed by Xin Wang. Again, doesn't sound Japanese to me. *shrugs*
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Swissman



Joined: 11 May 2006
Posts: 527
Location: Switzerland
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:55 am Reply with quote
I'd say, instead of thinking in absolute terms what makes some animation "anime" or not, is to think about what a "prototypical" anime is and what isn't. When you think of a prototypical bird, most people would probably think of a sparrow, but not of a penguin or an ostrich. Why is that? Because most people associate birds with characteristics like "tiny", "can fly", "has wings", "can sing", and so on. Same goes for "anime": When you think of anime, what pops up first in your mind? A show like K-On, or Afro Samurai? What is more prototypical of "anime", the first or the latter? For what reasons?

My simple definition of "anime" is that it's animation produced in Japan (it doesn't matter here if the director or some animators are japanese or not) intended first and foremost for a japanese audience.


DrXL wrote:
I mean, when you consider medium in the mix, does CG count as anime? And if only hand drawn animation counts, then all shows past the mid-2000s no longer qualify.

What do you mean by that? Most TV series are in fact still drawn by hand. Cel-animation has been replaced by digimation (digital ink & paint) and effects are mostly computer based nowadays, but the actual character animation is still hand drawn.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website My Anime My Manga
CorneredAngel



Joined: 17 Jun 2002
Posts: 827
Location: New York, NY
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:14 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Instead, let these examples work as jumping-off points for the conversation around the ever-changing definition.


Would also be interesting to show some examples of Japanese animation that don't look at all like "anime".

That ANN certainly covers - like Le Maison en Petits Cubes - anime#10654

In my mind, 'anime' is basically an appellation/geographical indication, like Champagne or all the ones that go with whisky. Yes, you can have American Champagne-style wine, and Japanese styles of alcoholic beverages that are very similar to or inspired by whisky. But those are not Champagne, and not Whisky.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Page 1 of 7

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group