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INTEREST: Macross Creator Shoji Kawamori Thinks Recent Anime Are Too Similar


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KH91



Joined: 17 May 2013
Posts: 6176
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:52 pm Reply with quote
I like this man. Thank you for being yourself. While I have no problem with similar stories, I'd also like to see something different. Like with every brother-sister romance series. Oh, they love each. Then we end up finding out near the end that they're not related. That gets boring. Don't do that story if you can't go all the way.
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Angel M Cazares
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Joined: 23 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:58 pm Reply with quote
I guess Mr. Kawamori does not watch much anime or is looking in the wrong places because anime is more varied than ever. There is stuff for all audiences.
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AiddonValentine



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:02 pm Reply with quote
unfortunately he made Nobunaga the Fool, which proves just because something is different doesn't make it better.
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MarshalBanana



Joined: 31 Aug 2014
Posts: 4414
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:07 pm Reply with quote
I sort of get where he is coming from, in the sense that when a title becomes big, everyone wants their own version of that. Gundam is big lets make that. Shoji: "Nah I'm making a different robot show with idols". I had no idea that Macross was hated by Gundam fans, I assume Japanese Gundam fans in the early 80s.
Quote:
a project to make three original television anime for 2020
Was one of those the one with the cyberpunk city made or glowing swords that he teased sometime ago.
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XerneasYveltal



Joined: 09 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:14 pm Reply with quote
It is possible that Kawamori is looking for something fresh.
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Moroboshi-san



Joined: 06 Apr 2015
Posts: 174
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:19 pm Reply with quote
Considering this guy work is carbon copies of each other and that he hasn't innovated anything for 35 years his comments lack credibility in a big way.
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Codeanime93



Joined: 28 Jul 2017
Posts: 597
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:32 pm Reply with quote
MarshalBanana wrote:
I sort of get where he is coming from, in the sense that when a title becomes big, everyone wants their own version of that. Gundam is big lets make that. Shoji: "Nah I'm making a different robot show with idols". I had no idea that Macross was hated by Gundam fans, I assume Japanese Gundam fans in the early 80s.
Quote:
a project to make three original television anime for 2020
Was one of those the one with the cyberpunk city made or glowing swords that he teased sometime ago.

Doesn't Lacus Clyne sort of count as a idol singer type character from a Macross show? I mean I guess Gundam Seed doing it didn't outrage the Gundam fans that much because the show was still popular over there. Then Seed Destiny had Meer Campbell who was a Lacus clone who sung propaganda songs for Zaft during that show. I guess Gundam fans got over it?
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omoikane



Joined: 03 Oct 2005
Posts: 458
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:08 pm Reply with quote
Moroboshi-san wrote:
Considering this guy work is carbon copies of each other and that he hasn't innovated anything for 35 years his comments lack credibility in a big way.


I'd love to watch the carbon copy of Arjuna LOL.
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Chrono1000





PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:13 pm Reply with quote
Moroboshi-san wrote:
Considering this guy work is carbon copies of each other and that he hasn't innovated anything for 35 years his comments lack credibility in a big way.
As much as I like Macross it is amusing that he complains about originality when he combined idols and transforming robots together and made that into a huge franchise. I get that it is easy to mock story ideas that you dislike but one man's garbage is another man's gold. Also magic academy shows vary greatly in content and would include Little Witch Academia.
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MrSatyre



Joined: 25 May 2009
Posts: 65
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:20 pm Reply with quote
I may be the oldest geezer here (50); I got hooked on Macross (under its Harmony Gold Robotech name) in the 80's, and then managed to get my hands on a VHS---and shortly after a LaserDisc copy---of the movie Do You Remember Love? and was the envy of my anime-obsessed friends.

While I am a huge fan of Super Dimension Fortress Macross, Macross Plus, and Macross Zero, I still have a hard time accepting the singing idol obsession Kawamori has. The emotionally disruptive element of song on the Zentraedi, etc. in the original series and movie was a clever twist on the old humanity-at-war-with-aliens trope. An idol as a central character in Macross Plus was fine because singing wasn't actually a tool for defeating an enemy, and the symbiosis between Myung and Sharon Apple was much more interesting and sinister because singing became the common theme to both characters, but...

...that should have been enough. He started to beat that idea of song being an underlying current to all societies and conflicts to death with Macross Zero, and that's where the characters really started to suffer developmentally.

The next several Macross series put even more emphasis on songs and idols than ever, to the point of unwatchability. Stories suffered serious pacing issues thanks to being constantly interrupted with unnecessary and irrelevant singing idols.

Kawamori asks why so much anime now is the same? He really needs to take hard look in the mirror.
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Jayhosh



Joined: 24 May 2013
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Location: Millmont, Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:37 pm Reply with quote
Any comment that is even slightly critical towards the state of the medium is greeted with a healthy dose of salt as per usual, lol. I'm not sure if I agree that anime as a whole isn't varied enough, but there's certainly the fair argument that even within these varied stories there are common tropes that make them feel redundant. Hopefully this new anime project initiative brings some of that freshness they desire with it. Most of the time you'll have users on here (and in this very thread already) complaining that "oh, they're just being grumpy, I don't like their shows so I'm gonna use that to crap on their credibility," or "if they dislike it so much then why don't they make the shows they wish existed?" But since he seems to actively be doing the latter, that complaint isn't valid.
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Moroboshi-san



Joined: 06 Apr 2015
Posts: 174
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:43 pm Reply with quote
Chrono1000 wrote:
...I get that it is easy to mock story ideas that you dislike but one man's garbage is another man's gold.

I don't mock the idea. I mock the fact that as this is all he has done in all three-and-half-decades he has been in the business he is not a guy to complain "anime being too similar".

SDF worked, not because of idols but because of comedy. Since then what he has done has not worked at all, they have been absolute bore to watch.
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MadHi



Joined: 10 Mar 2014
Posts: 188
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:34 pm Reply with quote
He's not wrong at all. Too many anime nowadays follow the same structure, tropes and character types. Sadly, crap like that sells so they have no choice but to keep making them.

However
Quote:
"The [Macross] idols were hated by Gundam fans. They always said singing in war was imprudent."


That's an odd statement considering that Gundam SEED and Gundam SEED Destiny are among the most popular Gundam series and they feature a pop idol, Lacus Clyne, who has the record for the following:

Most Best Girl winner - 4 times (2002, 2004, 2005, 2006)
Most Consecutive Best Girl winner - 3 times (2004, 2005, 2006)
Most Appearances in Top 5 Best Girl List - 6 times (2002-2007)
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Chrono1000





PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:35 pm Reply with quote
Moroboshi-san wrote:
I don't mock the idea. I mock the fact that as this is all he has done in all three-and-half-decades he has been in the business he is not a guy to complain "anime being too similar".
I was referring to him mocking magic academy anime which is why I mentioned Little Witch Academia. Even if the story idea is common I personally don't think that is an issue since the quality depends on the specific show.
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Kicksville



Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Posts: 957
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:45 pm Reply with quote
I feel like this year has been better than usual, with some interesting things yet to come, so the timing feels a bit funny - but, yeah, it's not as if those complaints haven't been true for quite a few titles for the past few years (regardless of his own output).
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