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INTEREST: The Artificial Life Tech Miyazaki Slammed Will Be Unveiled Thursday




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H. Guderian



Joined: 29 Jan 2014
Posts: 1255
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:24 pm Reply with quote
I think he's too cranky, but with him on this. I don't really care what or how a machine animates things, the whole behind the scenes meta of creators putting their life experiences into their art is a large part of anime, its how trends and styles emerge. Rivalries between studios and styles.

This will just lead to the vague auto-tune variations of animation.
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Morry



Joined: 26 Jun 2016
Posts: 756
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:54 pm Reply with quote
Let's be honest, if technology can mimic the quality of art seen in anime, the vast majority won't care whether or not the artist put their feelings into it. The question is whether it can or will ever reach that point, hence the demonstration.

At worst, this technology could help save studios on quality control for less important scenes so their talented animators can focus on the most important ones. That'll affect outsourcing and lower-tier animators trying to climb the ladder, as well as lessen some of the more egregious off-model shots.

We'll have to see how far it's come first.
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Zin5ki



Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 6680
Location: London, UK
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:08 pm Reply with quote
As more reports of the working culture at Ghibli come to fruition, it may soon be appreciated that the studio's celebrated helmsman lacks the innocence to dismiss something so loftily. (Especially when the thing in question is a technology that can save an animator's undervalued time.)
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jdnation



Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 1994
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:10 pm Reply with quote
To be fair, it was obviously borked and broken when he saw it. I don't tihnk anyone would've been too impressed.

Certainly we don't think such a thing would ever serve as an adequate replacement, but it might have uses as a supplementary tool for procedural background crowd simulations, flocks of birds, or areas where there are a lot of things on screen in the background etc.

You think they animated all those Orc armies in Lord of the Rings? Much of that was A.I. simulation. There was a funny story in the making-of where they actually had to tone down the A.I. because the soldiers kept running away from danger.

So there's always some usefulness to a lot of animation tech that can come in handy at some point.
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Cardcaptor Takato



Joined: 27 Jan 2018
Posts: 4787
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:49 pm Reply with quote
I remember Disney was using similar computer program technology to animate large crowd scenes back when they did Mulan. I remember learning about it through a behind the scenes special. I think a tool like this could be potentially helpful in lessening the workload of animators. I doubt this kind of technology could ever be used to replace animators entirely but it will probably be useful for things like aforementioned large crowd scenes.
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AiddonValentine



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 2201
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:55 pm Reply with quote
jdnation wrote:

You think they animated all those Orc armies in Lord of the Rings? Much of that was A.I. simulation. There was a funny story in the making-of where they actually had to tone down the A.I. because the soldiers kept running away from danger.


Actually that group was standing still because they had no one around to attack, so it was a programming glitch. Still, Massive (the program the production team used) was an impressive program when WETA Digital utilized in LOTR and that kind of tech is vital to productions of the scale those movies had.

As such, I'm very interested in these kinds of programs if they help ease the burden for animators and artists.
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FenixFiesta



Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Posts: 2581
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:08 am Reply with quote
Cardcaptor Takato wrote:
I remember Disney was using similar computer program technology to animate large crowd scenes back when they did Mulan. I remember learning about it through a behind the scenes special. I think a tool like this could be potentially helpful in lessening the workload of animators. I doubt this kind of technology could ever be used to replace animators entirely but it will probably be useful for things like aforementioned large crowd scenes.

That is the nature of the situation, society gains valuable new technology that could enhance masters of the craft but what happens is the inevitably said masters simply are "too costly of talent" and either are being paid well under there skill value or are forced to another venture.

The same is of the technology in of itself, if you have a team of programmers that can create a system that creates a worthwhile animation experience, it means that said program could only be feasibly be used for a high budget projects or by a large conglomerate studio for a flagship series.

As for Miyazaki, his reasoning is similar to the era when Don Bluth and many other animators left Disney as "more cost efficient animation technology" came into fruition, it isn't about how the new technology can stream line the process as it is an inherent sign that "making something for cheaper" has become more important than the quality of the work.
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EricJ2



Joined: 01 Feb 2014
Posts: 4016
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:44 am Reply with quote
Quote:
The program takes a human model but ignores standard limitations to make it move, causing it to writhe across the ground in unnatural ways.

jdnation wrote:
To be fair, it was obviously borked and broken when he saw it. I don't tihnk anyone would've been too impressed.


I know I wasn't...Geez, that thing was nightmare fuel. Shocked
animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2016-12-09/hayao-miyazaki-calls-ai-cg-animation-presentation-an-insult-to-life-itself/.109717
For a Resident Evil game, maybe, but the programmers were so in love with "Look what we theoretically did!", they basically passed off Miyazaki's very understandable "You have GOT to be kidding..." as more grumpy-old-animator wolf-crying.

I'm guessing they're hoping to unveil a few "improvements" over the last two years, but somehow the basic theory seems a bit underdeveloped.
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SHD



Joined: 05 Apr 2015
Posts: 1752
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:05 am Reply with quote
H. Guderian wrote:
I think he's too cranky, but with him on this. I don't really care what or how a machine animates things, the whole behind the scenes meta of creators putting their life experiences into their art is a large part of anime, its how trends and styles emerge.

Come on. For one, this tech's purpose is not to replace existing animation techniques, but to expand and streamline its capabilities. And as for creators and their art, I sincerely doubt that any given animator gets into this field being all "yay, I can't wait for drawing in-betweens and faceless crowds for the rest of my life!" This is not the part where creators pour their heart into their art, this is where poor underpaid animators slave away in last-minute overtime.
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