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INTEREST: Aspiring Animation Creator Alleges Corporate Bias Against Diverse Creators


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Ryuji-Dono



Joined: 26 Apr 2018
Posts: 359
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:30 am Reply with quote
On one hand, I can get her frustration...

On the other hand, ranting at such level makes it more like she didn't took rejection well. Not to mention that as the Oryx creator mentioned, it can't be helped because marketing and writing are two different things. Oh, and for the time being, there are at least two shows with Latino creators for the Originals So for the time being, I'm taking her claims with a grain of salt.
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#810704



Joined: 15 Mar 2014
Posts: 74
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:42 am Reply with quote
Ryuji-Dono wrote:
On one hand, I can get her frustration...

On the other hand, ranting at such level makes it more like she didn't took rejection well. Not to mention that as the Oryx creator mentioned, it can't be helped because marketing and writing are two different things. Oh, and for the time being, there are at least two shows with Latino creators for the Originals So for the time being, I'm taking her claims with a grain of salt.


I mean, shows generally take awhile to develop so for all we know they were already in production BEFORE this mess with High Guardian Spice happened. This could be in reference to new ideas/projects going forward, and given how easy it is to scare executives over the smallest controversies, it's not a stretch to believe they would take the WRONG lessons from this and backpedal like their lives depended on it. Either way, this was one hell of a marketing miss fire.


Last edited by #810704 on Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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NiPah



Joined: 11 Feb 2011
Posts: 156
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:42 am Reply with quote
Yeah I take major issue with targeting the creators, and while I think companies are ham-fisted when marketing diversity I believe this specific incidence came from clickbait youtubers selling outrage. Looking at productions like recorded by arizal or work by D’ART Shtajio shows people are interested in works by diverse creators.
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Ryuji-Dono



Joined: 26 Apr 2018
Posts: 359
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:45 am Reply with quote
#810704 wrote:
Ryuji-Dono wrote:
On one hand, I can get her frustration...

On the other hand, ranting at such level makes it more like she didn't took rejection well. Not to mention that as the Oryx creator mentioned, it can't be helped because marketing and writing are two different things. Oh, and for the time being, there are at least two shows with Latino creators for the Originals So for the time being, I'm taking her claims with a grain of salt.


I mean, shows generally take awhile to develop so for all we know they were already in production BEFORE this mess with High Spice happened. This could be in reference to new ideas/projects going forward, and given how easy it is to scare executives over the smallest controversies, it's not a stretch to believe they would take the WRONG lessons from this and backpedal like their lives depended on it. Either way, this was one hell of a marketing miss fire.


That I can get...but as long High Guardian Spice can be launched and hopefully be of good quality alongside Equinox, then it would make them a bit more open to such ideas. Like I said, it's still the early days of the Crunchyroll Originals, and we have like 3 western originals so far. So we must wait and see how it rolls, regardless of marketing.

And before you ask, I'm a Latino man who also has the dream of creating my own works. Just saying.
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Jonny Mendes



Joined: 17 Oct 2014
Posts: 933
Location: Europe
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:53 am Reply with quote
For what I remember the problem with High Guardian Spice was that they shot themselves in the foot with a bazooka. And also this hurt the other shows they had in mind. And may have hurt this creator.

They didn't promote the show or the plot. They promote the creators.
Unless is a famous creator, that is no way to promote a show.

When i look for a anime, I don't really take attention what the staff behind the show is.
I look for the characters and the plot. Only after that I will look for the staff.

The same is for TV shows or cartoons like this one.
I don't care what ethnicity, gender, nationality the staff have.
What I look for is a good plot and characters.

Like the with anime, If the show is good, I then will look for the staff behind the show I enjoyed.

They jumped the gun promoting the staff before the show.

Even if I don't really am in to cartoons, I hope High Guardian Spice have success and promote more cartoons like it. It would be a good addition to HIDIVE,
It probably not work in a site like Crunchyroll here the subscribers are more focused on anime and Asian media.
As long the funding of anime don't be reduced to make them.


Last edited by Jonny Mendes on Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:35 am; edited 1 time in total
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#810704



Joined: 15 Mar 2014
Posts: 74
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:58 am Reply with quote
Ryuji-Dono wrote:


That I can get...but as long High Guardian Spice can be launched and hopefully be of good quality alongside Equinox, then it would make them a bit more open to such ideas. Like I said, it's still the early days of the Crunchyroll Originals, and we have like 3 western originals so far. So we must wait and see how it rolls, regardless of marketing.

And before you ask, I'm a Latino man who also has the dream of creating my own works. Just saying.


That is true. At this point, no one really knows what's going on behind the scenes which makes it more difficult to determine what's fact and what's heresy/exaggerations. Equinox doesn't have any 'baggage' whatsoever so I doubt it'll have much issues pulling in a crowd so long as it has a decent story, but High Guardian Spice is gonna have an uphill battle irrespective of how good it ends up being, solely due to that poorly conceived trailer. The show's not even out yet and there are already a lot of STRONG opinions about it, so it'll be interesting to see how it turns it around.

Wasn't gonna ask actually, but I wish you the best of luck all the same Smile
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Ryuji-Dono



Joined: 26 Apr 2018
Posts: 359
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:10 am Reply with quote
#810704 wrote:


That is true. At this point, no one really knows what's going on behind the scenes which makes it more difficult to determine what's fact and what's heresy/exaggerations. Equinox doesn't have any 'baggage' whatsoever so I doubt it'll have much issues pulling in a crowd so long as it has a decent story, but High Guardian Spice is gonna have an uphill battle irrespective of how good it ends up being, solely due to that poorly conceived trailer. The show's not even out yet and there are already a lot of STRONG opinions about it, so it'll be interesting to see how it turns it around.

Wasn't gonna ask actually, but I wish you the best of luck all the same Smile


Oh thanks.

That's why I say: "Execution is the key" when it comes to works' ideas and such.
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karyuudo0127



Joined: 28 Nov 2011
Posts: 96
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:27 am Reply with quote
Just because a vocal minority wants things doesn't mean it will happen. If a company doesn't think that an idea / story will sell then there's no use bitching about it since you have no control over it.
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Ryuji-Dono



Joined: 26 Apr 2018
Posts: 359
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:32 am Reply with quote
karyuudo0127 wrote:
Just because a vocal minority wants things doesn't mean it will happen. If a company doesn't think that an idea / story will sell then there's no use bitching about it since you have no control over it.


It's a double edged sword about it.
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Beatdigga



Joined: 26 Oct 2003
Posts: 3126
Location: Here!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:34 am Reply with quote
Hoo boy, so much to unpack here.

There is an argument about so-called White Feminism and how it neglects the needs of minorities, that I will not speak on further because I’m not a feminist nor an expert in such.

There is a perfectly logical chain of events of corporate heads to go “Well She-Ra didn’t sell crap for merchandise, High Guardian Spice is a laughingstock, and every time someone pushes the diversity angle it bombs, so let’s just adapt something without those elements.” If that means the death of the Avatar clone, or Onyx Equinox gets cancelled and Crunchyroll green lights something like Karate Minoru, I’m not going to shed a tear.

A lot of minority creators get shut out of conversations involving portrayals by white creators giving lip service to diversity.

The problem is going about it in a Twitter rant is a one way ticket to the blacklist and to the end of your career. Not to mention phrasing it as an “Me vs Social Justice Whiners” argument gives opponents of any sort of diversity whatsoever more ammunition to go “any show with diverse elements is clearly pandering garbage” when that’s not what she’s trying to say, but likely will be interpreted as such. So I get the frustration, but the way she went about it is not going to help her case, and certainly has doomed her pitch.


Last edited by Beatdigga on Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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Nayrael



Joined: 05 Dec 2010
Posts: 17
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:35 am Reply with quote
Quote:
So f*ck the creators who use 'diversity' as a selling point instead of promoting the STORY...


It's the story that's supposed to be promoted, not these diversity themes that won't sell because people care more about story and characters than political goals of their creators. If the story and characters are good, people won't mind diverse casts, but if the diversity of your cast is your selling point while the story should be f*cked... yeah, why would anyone care? Even the represented groups don't care about shows that don't have a good story and characterization.
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Ermat_46



Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 531
Location: Philippines
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:45 am Reply with quote
Frankly, the only way Crunchyroll could save High Guardian Spice is to put it on HBO Max instead of Crunchyroll. Putting it on HBO Max will expose it to people who are non-anime fans and are possibly ignorant of the show's controversy, and it might find its audience there. Putting it on Crunchyroll's platform will just provoke the loud angry reactionary mob.
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Ryuji-Dono



Joined: 26 Apr 2018
Posts: 359
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:50 am Reply with quote
Ermat_46 wrote:
Frankly, the only way Crunchyroll could save High Guardian Spice is to put it on HBO Max instead of Crunchyroll. Putting it on HBO Max will expose it to people who are non-anime fans and are possibly ignorant of the show's controversy, and it might find its audience there. Putting it on Crunchyroll's platform will just provoke the loud angry reactionary mob.


Again, execution is the key. If the shows proves to be successful, then the reactionary mob would not matter in the end.
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SilverTalon01



Joined: 02 Apr 2012
Posts: 2169
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:56 am Reply with quote
Nayrael wrote:
Quote:
So f*ck the creators who use 'diversity' as a selling point instead of promoting the STORY...


It's the story that's supposed to be promoted, not these diversity themes that won't sell because people care more about story and characters than political goals of their creators. If the story and characters are good, people won't mind diverse casts, but if the diversity of your cast is your selling point while the story should be f*cked... yeah, why would anyone care? Even the represented groups don't care about shows that don't have a good story and characterization.


The problem is how do you convince people to invest enough time into the series to see if the story is any good when they've been burned by these garbage productions? Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I often have to question if a show with a diverse cast is trying to tell a story or push an agenda. I absolutely hate that I think that way now, but so much garbage was produced just to virtue signal that I get bad vibes from anything that looks like it could possibly fit under that umbrella.

I do feel bad that the people who are really losing out are those like the one mentioned in the article. I hope that producers can build a new strategy that won't stop quality works from getting attention.
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AmpersandsUnited



Joined: 22 Mar 2012
Posts: 255
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:06 pm Reply with quote
The fact people could tell easily tell it was about High Guardian Spice kind of defeats the purpose of not naming names so I'm not sure bridges have not been burned already. Especially since creative industries are very anti-criticism of your peers. When you start bad mouthing fellow cartoonists or shows, it's a very quick way to get blacklisted. Especially if you're criticizing things like diversity in a progressive dominated workplace..

That being said, High Guardian Spice easily had one of the worst trailers I've ever seen, easily surpassing Mighty No 9's. It's not really surprising it caused a domino effect and backlash, especially given it was supposed to be Crunchyroll's flagship original series. It wouldn't be out of place at all on Netflix or Cartoon Network which air shows very similar to it, but trying to market that stuff towards anime fans on an anime platform seemed so tone deaf and not really knowing what anime fans actually like or are into.
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