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EP. REVIEW: Horimiya


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Yttrbio
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 4:56 pm Reply with quote
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especially since we learn that Hori was more than a bit of a brat to the student council president when they were little, a revelation that probably everyone, including Miyamura, would be off-put by. (I'm not thrilled that it's used as comedic fodder, honestly.)
Given that Miyamura decided to throw some completely unnecessary violence because he felt like it (presented as cute expression of affection, which is a bit of a downer for me) and then seems to revel in doing some bullying of his own afterwards, I doubt he'd be that off-put by it.
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mangaka-chan



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:24 pm Reply with quote
I started out thinking that Remi is a bratty but dumb type character, but then you mentioned how everyone in this show has two sides to them, and that got me thinking. We're not sure what kind of work Remi was charged with, but suppose it's math (the budget report being the MacGuffin for episode 2), or another subject she's not great at, and I can see her wanting to give it to someone who's more capable. Had she been forced to do it, and would likely do a terrible job at it, the student counsel would've just dug an even deeper hole for themselves. Given that the president, Sengoku, is Remi's boyfriend, and the VP, Sakura, is Remi's best friend, she probably doesn't want to burden them further. Still, this is my own speculation. The manga also never addressed this directly, and I kinda wish they had, as it would've made Remi a lot more sympathetic from the get-go (from what I read a lot of Japanese fans hate her, and after the events in episode 2 it's not hard to see why).

As for Hori, I was alright with her in episode 1, but her bully face in episode 2 kinda soured me a bit. That being said though, teenagers can be pretty brutal to one another (thinks back on junior high and high school >_>) so I can see it happening. Going back to the theme of "everyone has more than one side to them", I think showing a less savory side of Hori was also intentional. She's smart, pretty, a great sister/daughter...but she also has some not so nice tendencies that not everyone can deal with, but that's okay, because that's how people are like in real-life.

A last bit of observation: is it just me or is CloverWay going out of their way to make Miyamura look pretty? Anime hyper
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NeverConvex
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:26 pm Reply with quote
Yttrbio wrote:
Given that Miyamura decided to throw some completely unnecessary violence because he felt like it (presented as cute expression of affection, which is a bit of a downer for me)


I found the headbutt scene really unexpected and thought it felt tonally inconsistent with the rest of the show. Hori's past I was a little more able to appreciate, if only because - despite playing it somewhat for laughs - the show also seemed to frame it as obviously a negative part of her past. These seem like character flaws that the show kind of brushes off more casually than it should.

Otherwise I'm finding this show very charming, though. Hori and Miyamura's relationship with one another is building very organically, I think.
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Ming Yi



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:59 pm Reply with quote
mangaka-chan wrote:
I started out thinking that Remi is a bratty but dumb type character, but then you mentioned how everyone in this show has two sides to them, and that got me thinking. We're not sure what kind of work Remi was charged with, but suppose it's math (the budget report being the MacGuffin for episode 2), or another subject she's not great at, and I can see her wanting to give it to someone who's more capable. Had she been forced to do it, and would likely do a terrible job at it, the student counsel would've just dug an even deeper hole for themselves. Given that the president, Sengoku, is Remi's boyfriend, and the VP, Sakura, is Remi's best friend, she probably doesn't want to burden them further. Still, this is my own speculation. The manga also never addressed this directly, and I kinda wish they had, as it would've made Remi a lot more sympathetic from the get-go (from what I read a lot of Japanese fans hate her, and after the events in episode 2 it's not hard to see why).


It's stated in the series that Remi doesn't really do much of the work in the first place and she's just there as the student council's "mascot."

While I can't explain for all Japanese fans, a lot of the hatred seems to come from the readers of the original webcomic that Horimiya is based on (which you can read on Hero's website). In the original webcomic, spoiler[Remi threw away the worksheets because she messed up the calculations and didn't want to bother with them. Afterwards, she makes Sengoku promise to cover for her (which Miyamura overhears) and when Sakura goes to confront Hori, she drags her to the middle of the hallway just to scold her in front of everyone. None of the student council members apologize for this, and after Miyamura busts them, all they do is tell everyone, "Move along, there's nothing to see here."]
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Covnam



Joined: 31 May 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:35 pm Reply with quote
Any reason to watch the OVAs with this airing? One person already said it wasn't really necessary, but since this is the main thread, I figured I see if anyone had any other opinions. Thanks Smile
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Ming Yi



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:49 am Reply with quote
Covnam wrote:
Any reason to watch the OVAs with this airing? One person already said it wasn't really necessary, but since this is the main thread, I figured I see if anyone had any other opinions. Thanks Smile


The OVAs adapt the original webcomic so they follow a different storytelling tone and are generally darker than Horimiya. There are some minor story details that Horimiya changed from the original webcomic (one example about the student council I mentioned earlier) so if you're interested in the changes, that could be another reason to watch them.
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The Scream Man



Joined: 01 Mar 2020
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:20 am Reply with quote
I love that "She didn't know his first name" is an issue. Its such a uniquely Japanese issue. Smile
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-SP-



Joined: 23 Apr 2018
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:39 pm Reply with quote
Seems like they cut quite a few scenes out, this adaption is going to be missing a lot of content at this rate
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bonbonsrus



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:50 pm Reply with quote
I didn't have as big an issue a many others did with Hori's past, picking on Sengoku. They'd known each other since toddlerhood it seems, and kids are very prone to acting without thinking too hard and regretting it later which seems like where Hori is now. She regrets her immature behavior, but at the same time didn't seem like a real bully as some are classifying her. It isn't often the one being bullied either turns it around and says "I'll tell people how you treated me" and that stops a bully either, I really think this was supposed to be much lighter than some are taking it... perhaps trauma or triggers of the viewer color this for those watching.

As for Miyamura head butting Sengoku, I think it's telling how much he has come to care for Hori that made him angry enough to do it, even if it seems like he's still a bit oblivious to his own feelings.

I haven't read the source material, but I really hope he isn't one of those completely clueless guys who never knows when someone likes him and can never figure out that he actually cares for someone. I don't really expect that to be the case honestly though, but thus far it seems he can't comprehend that Hori likes him since she invites him over all the time and lets her hair down around him not caring about appearances with him at all. I also love how melancholy she seems to get at the thought of him one day not coming over anymore. She decidedly seems more in touch with her feelings.

This show feels like a warm blanket to me, cozy and not offensive, enjoyable and relaxing. I look forward to the rest of this show!
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Yttrbio
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:07 am Reply with quote
bonbonsrus wrote:
I didn't have as big an issue a many others did with Hori's past, picking on Sengoku. They'd known each other since toddlerhood it seems, and kids are very prone to acting without thinking too hard and regretting it later which seems like where Hori is now. She regrets her immature behavior, but at the same time didn't seem like a real bully as some are classifying her. It isn't often the one being bullied either turns it around and says "I'll tell people how you treated me" and that stops a bully either, I really think this was supposed to be much lighter than some are taking it... perhaps trauma or triggers of the viewer color this for those watching.

As for Miyamura head butting Sengoku, I think it's telling how much he has come to care for Hori that made him angry enough to do it, even if it seems like he's still a bit oblivious to his own feelings.
I didn't see much evidence that Hori regretted any of it.

Obviously, you are correct about the function of these things in the show. I think that's what's off-putting. The idea is that this side character is a prop, basically a nonhuman object that can be beaten without moral significance as a tool to highlight something about the relationship that matters. As you say, a some folks have experiences from school where they can be mistreated by what would be called "the popular kids," not out of any malice or hatred, but out of complete indifference to the moral worth of the "other" besides how they can be useful for amusement or impressing their friends (the ones who "matter"). I don't mind a character behaving that way, but for the show itself to hold that up in exactly the same way with exactly the same attitude, presenting that behavior as a positive statement about their character, is definitely going to put me on defense.
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blahmoomoo



Joined: 27 Jan 2020
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:43 pm Reply with quote
Yttrbio wrote:
bonbonsrus wrote:
I didn't have as big an issue a many others did with Hori's past, picking on Sengoku. They'd known each other since toddlerhood it seems, and kids are very prone to acting without thinking too hard and regretting it later which seems like where Hori is now. She regrets her immature behavior, but at the same time didn't seem like a real bully as some are classifying her. It isn't often the one being bullied either turns it around and says "I'll tell people how you treated me" and that stops a bully either, I really think this was supposed to be much lighter than some are taking it... perhaps trauma or triggers of the viewer color this for those watching.

As for Miyamura head butting Sengoku, I think it's telling how much he has come to care for Hori that made him angry enough to do it, even if it seems like he's still a bit oblivious to his own feelings.
I didn't see much evidence that Hori regretted any of it.

Obviously, you are correct about the function of these things in the show. I think that's what's off-putting. The idea is that this side character is a prop, basically a nonhuman object that can be beaten without moral significance as a tool to highlight something about the relationship that matters. As you say, a some folks have experiences from school where they can be mistreated by what would be called "the popular kids," not out of any malice or hatred, but out of complete indifference to the moral worth of the "other" besides how they can be useful for amusement or impressing their friends (the ones who "matter"). I don't mind a character behaving that way, but for the show itself to hold that up in exactly the same way with exactly the same attitude, presenting that behavior as a positive statement about their character, is definitely going to put me on defense.


Something a bit odd here that the anime greatly expanded the flashbacks. In the manga (published version; I don't know about the web version), it was just a single page of Miyamura asking Hori if the president is blackmailing her. And her remembering what she did was just three sketches in one panel.

Manga wrote:

Present day Hori: "Oh, geez! As if! We grew up together, so..."
Kindergarten: Hori's sitting on Sengoku as he's crying. Hori's saying "Sengokuuu! You're such a crybaby. Weird name too!"
Grade school: Hori's slipping her peas onto Sengoku's cafeteria plate. Sengoku's saying "I hate peas too!"
Middle school: Sengoku is shouting at Hori: "When we're in high school, don't just call me "Sengoku"! I want to enjoy my time there!!". Hori's saying "Huuuh?"
Present day Hori: looking to the side, "I just messed with him a bit too much when we were little, that's all..."
Sengoku: he's somewhere else, but feels a chill down his spine.


I think the manga is implying that what she did is teasing that Hori might have since realized wasn't ok. The anime's expansion of this one page makes what she did appear worse than the manga showed. As if the anime staff decided they could make it funny by expanding on it, which instead lead to discomfort in me and a few other posters here.
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Ming Yi



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 4:52 pm Reply with quote
blahmoomoo wrote:
I don't know about the web version


I translated the original webcomic for reference:

Hori and Sengoku's Dark Past wrote:
Ishikawa: Hori, does Sengoku have some kind of dirt on you?
Hori: (gulp) What? No wayyy! Of course not!

Kindergarten Hori: Sengokuuuu! You have a funny name!
Kindergarten Sengoku: Waaah! Waaah!
Kindergarten Hori: You cry so easily! What a baby!
Kindergarten Sengoku: Waaah! Waaah!

Elementary Sengoku: Hori-san, that's my umbrella... (small text: I'll get wet!)
Elementary Hori: Thanks for letting me borrow it.
Elementary Sengoku: I hate green peas too!!

Sengoku: I can't tell anyone I was bullied in kindergarten and elementary school. (sigh)
Remi: Ah! You've recovered! (small text: I'm glad!)
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Saeryen



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 5:49 pm Reply with quote
blahmoomoo wrote:

Manga wrote:

Present day Hori: "Oh, geez! As if! We grew up together, so..."
Kindergarten: Hori's sitting on Sengoku as he's crying. Hori's saying "Sengokuuu! You're such a crybaby. Weird name too!"
Grade school: Hori's slipping her peas onto Sengoku's cafeteria plate. Sengoku's saying "I hate peas too!"
Middle school: Sengoku is shouting at Hori: "When we're in high school, don't just call me "Sengoku"! I want to enjoy my time there!!". Hori's saying "Huuuh?"
Present day Hori: looking to the side, "I just messed with him a bit too much when we were little, that's all..."
Sengoku: he's somewhere else, but feels a chill down his spine.


I think the manga is implying that what she did is teasing that Hori might have since realized wasn't ok. The anime's expansion of this one page makes what she did appear worse than the manga showed. As if the anime staff decided they could make it funny by expanding on it, which instead lead to discomfort in me and a few other posters here.


I got the impression from the anime that she was just an immature child and has since realized that she shouldn't have done that to him.

I am loving this anime so far. Very mellow slice-of-life feel, which is just my cup of tea.
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mangaka-chan



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:43 pm Reply with quote
Since the anime is based on a relatively long running manga (started in 2011, so it's going on 10 years of serialization) there's a good number of people who've followed it during its run and enjoyed it for a long time. For relative new comers, I think the presentation of the characters and the pacing of the anime can give people a different feel for these characters.

And of course, personal taste/experience also color people's individual enjoyment or not of this show. Take Hori's character for example, I think a lot of manga fans like her and I started out liking her as well when I read the manga. But that changed in later chapters spoiler[where we see her being easily jealous and overreacting, and her weird "kink" for Miyamura acting rude/violent towards her, none of which are my cup of tea in a character.]
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all-tsun-and-no-dere
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:05 pm Reply with quote
mangaka-chan wrote:
And of course, personal taste/experience also color people's individual enjoyment or not of this show. Take Hori's character for example, I think a lot of manga fans like her and I started out liking her as well when I read the manga. But that changed in later chapters spoiler[where we see her being easily jealous and overreacting, and her weird "kink" for Miyamura acting rude/violent towards her, none of which are my cup of tea in a character.]


The anime seems to be going out of its way to soften Hori, which I appreciate. I love the manga, but Hori reeeeallly pushes the envelope of what I'll accept in a romantic female lead sometimes. Already it seems to be cutting out her occasional homo/biphobia, which I really appreciate because it could get really nasty.

Which, kind of makes the bit with her childhood with Sengoku a bit strange in context. As others have remarked, it was a quick bit in the manga that seemed like she was a self-centered, unempathetic child taking advantage of her more passive friend; here, she fully came across as a bully. I don't care for it.

Regarding spoiler[her kink for being yelled at, I loved how it was handled! I thought it was a great example of a couple exploring their sexuality together in a way that included healthy separation of fantasy and reality, which is so rare in romance stories. It's not something I'm into personally, but it makes me happy to see something like this represented in a realistic, generally healthy way. I also didn't think it would come up in the anime, but with the way they've been blasting through the source material, they just might reach that point in the story.]
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