Forum - View topic
EP. REVIEW: 86


Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
jroa



Joined: 08 Aug 2012
Posts: 493
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:10 pm Reply with quote
This show reminds me a lot of Code Geass: Akito the Exiled.

I suppose imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, since it sure doesn't seem like a coincidence.

All the same, they'll likely have a lot more time to develop the story since the LNs are ongoing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Key
Moderator


Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 16777
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:32 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
(This is the only time I've ever asked to cover a seasonal anime for ANN weekly reviews).

Loved seeing this line in the review. Always great when someone is truly passionate about the title they're reviewing.

And yeah, I'll probably also be watching that action scene a few more times while waiting for next week's episode to come up. I expected this series to be good, but being that good (especially from a first-time head director) is a pleasant surprise.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website My Anime My Manga
Electric Wooloo



Joined: 19 Aug 2020
Posts: 61
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:42 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Episode 2 has pulled away from some of my earlier concerns.


I had the exact opposite impression, though Episode 2 was quite enjoyable. The lecture that Lena gives was the exact kind of Light Novel info dump I was hoping wouldn't happen, and the entire scene felt less like Lena expressing her views and more like the Author making sure the audience knows this background.

Further, I have A LOT of questions about the logistics of the show that I'm not super confident the show will explain. Why doesn't the 86 rebel or just leave? They're apparently autonomous and from episode 1 the Military seems to be a cushy office job with day drinking in the other 85 districts. Are there literally no other countries in the world that would take them in or they could persuade to intervene?

Why are they so sure the war will end in 2 years? The info is "The Empire appears to have been destroyed so all the robots will stop after their life expectancy of 6 years" but is there any evidence of that? Maybe the Empire just stopped communicating. Maybe the robots have developed autonomous factories. It seems like a very big thing to just hand wave.

Why is Lena literally the only person to question the 86's status? I realize propaganda and mob mentality can sway a populous, but so far literally only Lena has shown any sympathy and that seems... unrealistic? Considering these internment camps apparently started only 9 years ago the majority of people alive would have known and probably had some connections with the people who are now the 86. And since Lena is so adamant about her beliefs, what made her that way? Was there some formative moment for her or is she just the only one with a conscious?

All that said I am enjoying the dynamic going on, and I hope the show can approach the racism topic while avoiding Lena being a white savior. And I'm curious about the "being sent" and "take them" comments in regard to Undertaker and his squadmates. I have an idea of what might be going on there and its connection the the "ghosts" other Handlers heard from Spearhead.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
killjoy_the



Joined: 30 May 2015
Posts: 2224
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:54 pm Reply with quote
Electric Wooloo wrote:
I had the exact opposite impression, though Episode 2 was quite enjoyable. The lecture that Lena gives was the exact kind of Light Novel info dump I was hoping wouldn't happen, and the entire scene felt less like Lena expressing her views and more like the Author making sure the audience knows this background.


Yeah, in the context of this being an anime my initial reaction was "well I guess that's one way to deliver an infodump and pretend it's natural dialogue - a classroom", but then it seemed like this was information everyone in there already knew anyway, the questions the students threw at Lena seemed silly, and all I got from all of it was afterwards Lena admits she can only actually have this stance because she's family with a higher up

Overall I thought episode 2 was quite a bit weaker than the first, but also I didn't care for the action scene and that seems to be what most people enjoyed about it a lot
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
7777ale7777



Joined: 13 Nov 2017
Posts: 58
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:20 pm Reply with quote
I'm still not sure whether or not the general population knows that there are people inside the drones. I first believed they didn't know because it seemed like the government could be covering it up by saying that there're just "processors" inside the drones. This is also backed by the line Vladilena says in episode 2: "...the now supposedly empy area became known as the 86th district...". Or is it because the 86s are "not people" that the population considers that area empty in the first place and Vladilena is actually saying "hey, they're people too so is not acually empty"?

There's also the thing about that law that made everyone that was not silver haired a non-human just 9 years ago?? So, where were the 86s before then? Did they live together with the silver haired? How did the silver people just accepted it like it was nothing? That leads me to believe that they were all racists in the frst place so they gladly accepted that the 86 were "actually" pig people and send them to war, and that would mean that they know there are people in the drones, just not people people for them.


Last edited by 7777ale7777 on Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Key
Moderator


Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 16777
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:22 pm Reply with quote
Electric Wooloo wrote:
I had the exact opposite impression, though Episode 2 was quite enjoyable. The lecture that Lena gives was the exact kind of Light Novel info dump I was hoping wouldn't happen, and the entire scene felt less like Lena expressing her views and more like the Author making sure the audience knows this background.

That's actually an anime-original scene used to summarize some information doled out more piecemeal in the novel.

Quote:
Further, I have A LOT of questions about the logistics of the show that I'm not super confident the show will explain. Why doesn't the 86 rebel or just leave? They're apparently autonomous and from episode 1 the Military seems to be a cushy office job with day drinking in the other 85 districts. Are there literally no other countries in the world that would take them in or they could persuade to intervene?

This should be explained eventually, as it is a key plot point.

Quote:
Why are they so sure the war will end in 2 years? The info is "The Empire appears to have been destroyed so all the robots will stop after their life expectancy of 6 years" but is there any evidence of that? Maybe the Empire just stopped communicating. Maybe the robots have developed autonomous factories. It seems like a very big thing to just hand wave.

Recall that in that classroom scene the instructor also lauded the supposed superiority of the Juggernaut units. But that didn't match up to what the 86s were saying about them in the run-up to the battle, does it? The Alba are fooling themselves on many things.

Quote:
Why is Lena literally the only person to question the 86's status? I realize propaganda and mob mentality can sway a populous, but so far literally only Lena has shown any sympathy and that seems... unrealistic? Considering these internment camps apparently started only 9 years ago the majority of people alive would have known and probably had some connections with the people who are now the 86. And since Lena is so adamant about her beliefs, what made her that way? Was there some formative moment for her or is she just the only one with a conscious?

I think you mean "conscience."

As you should see eventually, there are other Alba who are sympathetic to the 86s, but most of the populace of San Magnolia has clearly bought into government propaganda. If the government played onto existing, deep-seeded distrust of minorities (who are also immigrants, BTW), being able to foster this kind of attitude even in only a few years' time is hardly unrealistic; you only need look at Nazi Germany for a real-world parallel. (And yes, the author implies in the first novel's Afterword that the parallel is intentional.) Add on that the populace was desperate for a scapegoat when the military situation during the initial invasion turned south and you have a very ugly recipe for persecution.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website My Anime My Manga
RenimLS



Joined: 26 Mar 2014
Posts: 44
Location: North America
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:28 pm Reply with quote
Electric Wooloo wrote:


Further, I have A LOT of questions about the logistics of the show that I'm not super confident the show will explain. Why doesn't the 86 rebel or just leave? They're apparently autonomous and from episode 1 the Military seems to be a cushy office job with day drinking in the other 85 districts. Are there literally no other countries in the world that would take them in or they could persuade to intervene?


They're still very much dependent on the 85 districts as much of their materials and supplies are still manufactured in facilities there. Synthetic food rations are manufactured at their external depots, but the power facilities are also all located within the walled 85 districts.

spoiler[ The military leadership has long range artillery, and while supposedly defensive in nature, it's used more as a gun to hold the 86 as hostages and will be used to suppress revolts if they were to happen.

Since the start of the conflict they have been cut off from all neighboring countries and are surrounded on all sides by Legion forces. With no way of communications and no way to scout beyond their current frontlines, it is unknown if any other countries even still exist beyond their own. ]


Electric Wooloo wrote:

Why are they so sure the war will end in 2 years? The info is "The Empire appears to have been destroyed so all the robots will stop after their life expectancy of 6 years" but is there any evidence of that? Maybe the Empire just stopped communicating. Maybe the robots have developed autonomous factories. It seems like a very big thing to just hand wave.


spoiler[ Studying downed units have shown that their original configuration does have a built-in life span. Some Legion units have already started showing decay of their processing unit from age when inspecting their remains and while they're regularly being attacked, the overall number of attacking forces have gradually been going down. As far as their current data would suggest, their enemy while vast is finite and will expire in the near future if they hold their ground.]

Electric Wooloo wrote:

Why is Lena literally the only person to question the 86's status? I realize propaganda and mob mentality can sway a populous, but so far literally only Lena has shown any sympathy and that seems... unrealistic? Considering these internment camps apparently started only 9 years ago the majority of people alive would have known and probably had some connections with the people who are now the 86. And since Lena is so adamant about her beliefs, what made her that way? Was there some formative moment for her or is she just the only one with a conscious?


spoiler[ There are others, but keeping it focused on Lena probably helps to emphasize the fact that people like her who are both supportive of the 86 and vocal about her thoughts are the minority. The majority either believe the propaganda or they've resigned themselves that this is just the way life has to be, so don't speak up and rock the boat to paint a target on yourself.

Much of the ranks of their military were also wiped out early in the conflict, with the people filling the ranks predominately those who were more thugs who found that following the governments edicts rewarded them well and gave them a position of power to exert force over the lives of others (the 86). You're not going to find many immediately around Lena who likely want to change their current position in society.]


Will be interesting watching this series, I wonder how much they will cover, as like SAO the original volume 1 was written as being complete enough to not necessarily warrant needing furthering the story beyond it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Electric Wooloo



Joined: 19 Aug 2020
Posts: 61
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:01 pm Reply with quote
Key wrote:

That's actually an anime-original scene used to summarize some information doled out more piecemeal in the novel.


Regardless of whether it was original or not it's a poor way to explain things

Key wrote:


As you should see eventually, there are other Alba who are sympathetic to the 86s, but most of the populace of San Magnolia has clearly bought into government propaganda. If the government played onto existing, deep-seeded distrust of minorities (who are also immigrants, BTW), being able to foster this kind of attitude even in only a few years' time is hardly unrealistic; you only need look at Nazi Germany for a real-world parallel. (And yes, the author implies in the first novel's Afterword that the parallel is intentional.) Add on that the populace was desperate for a scapegoat when the military situation during the initial invasion turned south and you have a very ugly recipe for persecution.


Yes, the parallel's aren't exactly subtle. I'm aware that the series is referencing Nazi Germany. But even in Germany there were dissidents and people who were coerced to join the party but weren't ardent supporters of their ideas. Everybody so far seems to truly believe in the inferiority of the 86, and the Republic doesn't exactly seem like an Autocracy crushing dissent. A simple "I have an Uncle in high places" shouldn't have gotten Lena off the hook for that speech if it was a Nazi like police state.

RenimLS wrote:
They're still very much dependent on the 85 districts as much of their materials and supplies are still manufactured in facilities there. Synthetic food rations are manufactured at their external depots, but the power facilities are also all located within the walled 85 districts.

spoiler[ The military leadership has long range artillery, and while supposedly defensive in nature, it's used more as a gun to hold the 86 as hostages and will be used to suppress revolts if they were to happen.

Since the start of the conflict they have been cut off from all neighboring countries and are surrounded on all sides by Legion forces. With no way of communications and no way to scout beyond their current frontlines, it is unknown if any other countries even still exist beyond their own. ] ]


This is very disappointing to be honest. Boiling it down to a post apocalypse ethno-state with no other Civilizations simplifies the narrative, but really limits the world building. Also in episode 1 we saw the 86 preparing their own food, and Lena's journal mentioned how jealous she was of them for eating "real eggs." They're clearly not completely dependent on the Republic.

I don't expect every story to go deep into the world building, and I'm here for the story that the author wants to tell, but at the same time not all the dots are connecting for me
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Porudogumaz



Joined: 21 Dec 2020
Posts: 8
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:33 pm Reply with quote
Electric Wooloo wrote:
Yes, the parallel's aren't exactly subtle. I'm aware that the series is referencing Nazi Germany. But even in Germany there were dissidents and people who were coerced to join the party but weren't ardent supporters of their ideas. Everybody so far seems to truly believe in the inferiority of the 86, and the Republic doesn't exactly seem like an Autocracy crushing dissent. A simple "I have an Uncle in high places" shouldn't have gotten Lena off the hook for that speech if it was a Nazi like police state.


That's the one major aspect of the show's setting that I'm questioning the most so far; how much of a secret are the 86's? From what the show establishes up until that point, you'd think that a high ranking official like here pulling such a stunt would be grounds to have her at the very least discharged from service if not far worse, but instead it's basically treated as just a small offense that she could easily weasel her way out of consequence for. If the government really wants to keep the fact that the 86 are human a secret then I'd expect for the punishment to be far harsher.

(And that's not even getting into the fact that the 86th district is apparently only 9 years old, so how, even with propaganda, the majority of people seems to not know/remember the existence of non-Alba humans in such a short time is anyone's guess...I swear, if it's brainwashing I-)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
invalidname
Contributor



Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 2177
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:48 pm Reply with quote
What do the LN readers think of the pacing here? I've only read the first book, and after two episodes, it feels like they could cover it in maybe six episodes or so? Does that sound right?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
whiskeyii



Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 1951
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:50 pm Reply with quote
In the Preview Guide I mentioned that I was a little concerned that 86's portrayal of racism might not feel particularly relevant to a modern audience given when it was released (I make no judgment on how well it'll be executed, mind you), but given what Theron has said about the author's sources, I can't shake the feeling that this might end up being a story that's "about racism" purely on a semantic level (in that the 86's are an in-universe race), and that it's going to end up feeling more like an anti-Semitism story. Not that you can't have a White Savior in an anti-Semitic story, I just wonder if it won't also be helpful to keep an eye out for whatever the narrative equivalent of Not All Germans a la JoJo Rabbit is and the like as well. I mean, it's super early days, so who knows? It's really just a weird gut instinct at this point.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SilverTalon01



Joined: 02 Apr 2012
Posts: 2206
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:22 pm Reply with quote
I smirked a little when I read the part in the review about the only brown person getting killed immediately because I remember questioning when this got announced how it was suppose to be about white supremacy when all of the characters are 'anime white' (by which I mean that skin tone used by most anime which is at minimum white enough that some people, including some Japanese people, will think the character is white). Regardless of which bucket it falls in, the discrimination themes being put so forcibly on top of what could stand on its own as a straight mecha series is interesting. I think this is my favorite series this season, at least based on the first 2 episodes.

jroa wrote:
This show reminds me a lot of Code Geass: Akito the Exiled.

I suppose imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, since it sure doesn't seem like a coincidence.

All the same, they'll likely have a lot more time to develop the story since the LNs are ongoing.


I get a Code Geass feel from this as well. The whole 86 thing is pretty similar to how Britainia dehumanized the Japanese by labeling them as Elevens. The other series that I get vibes from is Iron Blood Orphans.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Aaronrules380



Joined: 08 Oct 2012
Posts: 113
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:30 pm Reply with quote
I want to say in fairness on the note of brown characters that there is a signficant dark skinned character in the light novels who has yet to be introduced (Though given the pacing we're going at I wouldn't expect to see them much if at at all until the second cour)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
77gc88



Joined: 24 Mar 2021
Posts: 3
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:51 pm Reply with quote
Porudogumaz wrote:
Electric Wooloo wrote:
Yes, the parallel's aren't exactly subtle. I'm aware that the series is referencing Nazi Germany. But even in Germany there were dissidents and people who were coerced to join the party but weren't ardent supporters of their ideas. Everybody so far seems to truly believe in the inferiority of the 86, and the Republic doesn't exactly seem like an Autocracy crushing dissent. A simple "I have an Uncle in high places" shouldn't have gotten Lena off the hook for that speech if it was a Nazi like police state.


That's the one major aspect of the show's setting that I'm questioning the most so far; how much of a secret are the 86's? From what the show establishes up until that point, you'd think that a high ranking official like here pulling such a stunt would be grounds to have her at the very least discharged from service if not far worse, but instead it's basically treated as just a small offense that she could easily weasel her way out of consequence for. If the government really wants to keep the fact that the 86 are human a secret then I'd expect for the punishment to be far harsher.

(And that's not even getting into the fact that the 86th district is apparently only 9 years old, so how, even with propaganda, the majority of people seems to not know/remember the existence of non-Alba humans in such a short time is anyone's guess...I swear, if it's brainwashing I-)
As someone else mentioned, that scene was an anime original scene done to summarize a bunch of smaller conversations. Its also one of my biggest issues with the adaptation so far. In the context of the world, she wouldn't be able to get away with that speech. In the book, Lena does express these views, but only amongst her closest friends and relatives; all of who pretty much tell her to shut up and keep it to herself. I also think the speech hurts her character arc a bit.

I understand why they did it, they wanted to get the lore dump out of the way quickly, but it happened at the expense of Lena's development and a bit of the world building.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
T.Silver



Joined: 13 Jul 2015
Posts: 143
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:18 pm Reply with quote
Electric Wooloo wrote:
This is very disappointing to be honest. Boiling it down to a post apocalypse ethno-state with no other Civilizations simplifies the narrative, but really limits the world building.
I think you misinterpreted what he meant, that's what the Republic believes as a possibility. They would have no idea if the other nations survived and are still out there fighting the Legion since all outwards communication is completely cutoff. spoiler[There are other nations and the world does get expanded upon, so don't worry.]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 1 of 4

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group