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EP. REVIEW: Demon Slayer: Kimetsu no Yaiba Entertainment District Arc


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ZiharkXVI



Joined: 29 Jan 2009
Posts: 247
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:51 pm Reply with quote
Can I just ask...was the reviewer ever on board the hype train? I read the review and I just don't get it. This show is fairly consistent in terms of pacing and story. It's really nothing new from some of the episodes from the first season. I have no idea what's changed and nothing in the review explained any of the conclusion to the review (other than a strong dislike for Rengoku). To say that the episode title doesn't match the content isn't very persuasive (or even relevant in my opinion).

I'll defend Rengoku as a character as well. He didn't have to be around long to leave a mark - he's at the top of the organization that all our main characters serve in. He is clearly talented and inherently charismatic by nature of his positive and straightforward attitude. He saves the passengers. He defends them against a major opponent and refuses to join the attempt to tempt him. He then fights to the death for them...I don't care how one slices this - that's a big deal. Someone laying down their life for you in front of you can be life changing. It certainly warrants an emotional response. If we take into consideration our main characters are still young, there can be both real trauma as well as unshakeable devotion. In short, it makes all the sense in the world for Rengoku to be a huge deal to our characters and in this universe. The reviewer is entitled to his opinion of course, but it is possible to just be wrong. And I would argue he's just wrong.

Additionally saying that it didn't affect somebody is a meaningless argument. If I say I was emotionally invested in the Demon Train arc does that mean it delivered? Hardly. Tantamount to saying I like this. I do not like that. There is nothing wrong with an opinion, but as a review I'd at least like some attempt at objectivity. Maybe that's not fair for an internet reaction review. But I do want more than that. Smile

Anyways, can't wait for the rest of this arc. This was clearly a transition episode and I like that they don't feel the need to rush into this. We'll get more than enough Tengen soon enough.
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RoninX



Joined: 03 Aug 2016
Posts: 32
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:11 pm Reply with quote
ZiharkXVI wrote:
Can I just ask...was the reviewer ever on board the hype train? I read the review and I just don't get it. This show is fairly consistent in terms of pacing and story. It's really nothing new from some of the episodes from the first season. I have no idea what's changed and nothing in the review explained any of the conclusion to the review (other than a strong dislike for Rengoku). To say that the episode title doesn't match the content isn't very persuasive (or even relevant in my opinion).

I'll defend Rengoku as a character as well. He didn't have to be around long to leave a mark - he's at the top of the organization that all our main characters serve in. He is clearly talented and inherently charismatic by nature of his positive and straightforward attitude. He saves the passengers. He defends them against a major opponent and refuses to join the attempt to tempt him. He then fights to the death for them...I don't care how one slices this - that's a big deal. Someone laying down their life for you in front of you can be life changing. It certainly warrants an emotional response. If we take into consideration our main characters are still young, there can be both real trauma as well as unshakeable devotion. In short, it makes all the sense in the world for Rengoku to be a huge deal to our characters and in this universe. The reviewer is entitled to his opinion of course, but it is possible to just be wrong. And I would argue he's just wrong.

Additionally saying that it didn't affect somebody is a meaningless argument. If I say I was emotionally invested in the Demon Train arc does that mean it delivered? Hardly. Tantamount to saying I like this. I do not like that. There is nothing wrong with an opinion, but as a review I'd at least like some attempt at objectivity. Maybe that's not fair for an internet reaction review. But I do want more than that. Smile

Anyways, can't wait for the rest of this arc. This was clearly a transition episode and I like that they don't feel the need to rush into this. We'll get more than enough Tengen soon enough.
Troof. I’m hardly someone who boards the “hype train” even when the first season came out whilst everyone was praising the series as a top tier in shonen (not even close)… but even I can smell a whole bunch of bias against the series and what’s it’s trying to convey to its audience.
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Top Gun



Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 4014
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:24 pm Reply with quote
Someone coming to a different conclusion than you does not make them "biased." By the same token, an "objective" review would just be a summary. I mean I've found the series to be solid but unspectacular shonen since the first season and have never understood the massive amount of hype it generated...and that was before the ridiculousness that was the movie, which I haven't felt particularly compelled to see. Shockingly enough, people can have different reactions to a piece of entertainment.
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ZiharkXVI



Joined: 29 Jan 2009
Posts: 247
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:21 pm Reply with quote
Top Gun wrote:
Someone coming to a different conclusion than you does not make them "biased." By the same token, an "objective" review would just be a summary. I mean I've found the series to be solid but unspectacular shonen since the first season and have never understood the massive amount of hype it generated...and that was before the ridiculousness that was the movie, which I haven't felt particularly compelled to see. Shockingly enough, people can have different reactions to a piece of entertainment.


You misunderstand. It's fine to reach a different conclusion. But without an objective defense of that conclusion, it is the very definition of bias. Objectivity should always be the goal...or what's the point? Just slap a score on it, say you felt meh, and I guess that's about it. I should probably let my all of my former literature professors know I shouldn't have been docked for making poor arguments as well.

We should probably not even have a discussion thread if we can't even discuss the strength of our observations and analysis.

I couldn't help but comment on my disagreement of the review, but really I just didn't understand it. Hence my question about what's changed?
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Dab1za9



Joined: 27 Mar 2016
Posts: 68
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:40 pm Reply with quote
Filler ? LMAO, this is hilarious, the reviews keeps getting worse and worse , c'mon James you have to admit that the series popularity got in your head, you just go to every episode and want to nitpick the hell out of it.
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Vanadise



Joined: 06 Apr 2015
Posts: 280
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:54 pm Reply with quote
ZiharkXVI wrote:
But without an objective defense of that conclusion, it is the very definition of bias. Objectivity should always be the goal...or what's the point?

On the contrary, the whole point of a review is the subjectivity. I want to know whether a reviewer enjoyed something or not and why they did or didn't. If you want objectivity, go read a summary.

While I enjoyed Demon Slayer (I read through the entire manga when it finished), I think James' complaints about it are quite fair. These transitional bits between arcs are, IMO, the worst parts of the series.
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The Anime Binge-Watcher



Joined: 28 Jan 2020
Posts: 29
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:59 pm Reply with quote
James: consistently gives positive scores to episodes of Demon Slayer even as he critique the issues he sees in them

Some of y'all weirdos: wOw BiAs MuCh

I swear, anime fans can be some of the most sensitive little snowflakes in existence. I've disagreed with James' reviews plenty of time before (I think he was way too kind to HIgehiro for way too long), but he's entitled to express his opinion. Isn't that what reviews are for in the first place? To read or watch someone else give their thoughts on a piece of media and gain a broader understanding of it in the process? Or do you just want your own opinions parroted back at you without the slightest difference in perspective?
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JoelBurger



Joined: 14 Oct 2011
Posts: 232
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:59 pm Reply with quote
ZiharkXVI wrote:
Objectivity should always be the goal...or what's the point?


Objectivity only pertains to statements of fact. "Tanjiro is the protagonist" is an example of an objective observation (hence why people are telling you to just read summaries if you want objectivity). Reviews/critiques, which are not about statements of fact but expressions of one's perspective on a text based on their own experience, are by nature not objective. You seem to have horribly misunderstood what these words mean.
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NeverConvex
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Joined: 08 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:13 pm Reply with quote
I don't really understand the complaints about James' review. I thought he was spot on; the Flame Hashira's story was poorly told, and built little emotional connection with viewers. As a result, most of this episode felt like like trying to cash in on emotional payoff the story hasn't earned. Oddly, it actually had the makings of a pretty well-executed epilogue -- like, the father's mixture of anger and pain / being a drunk mess and also genuinely caring about his son despite the front, was a solid choice, and portrayed pretty well. It's just that an emotionally satisfying epilogue doesn't really work if it doesn't build on prior groundwork laid to make the viewers connect with the characters.

The jokes were all fell flat for me, with the only exception being the one James noted, too.

And, once you put those two things -- epilogue and humor -- and the end credits/skit together, you do genuinely end up consuming something like 90% of this double-length episode's run-time. That just seems like a strange way to spend a lengthened, hype-for-the-new-arc episode like this one.

Separately: why in the world did the new Hashira smack Aoi's butt? That was kind of weird; I guess he's supposed to be kind of misogynistic, or disrespectfully lewd, or both, or something? But the scene didn't really play into that at all before that point, so it just felt like it came out of nowhere. And: why did he so immediately accept that the three boys were a suitable replacement -- wasn't his order that he needed female members of the Corps? Was he thinking of Nezuko? This scene was the only one really pertinent to the new arc and it just seemed very strangely told.
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Top Gun



Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 4014
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:28 pm Reply with quote
Vanadise wrote:

While I enjoyed Demon Slayer (I read through the entire manga when it finished), I think James' complaints about it are quite fair. These transitional bits between arcs are, IMO, the worst parts of the series.

I can't help but think of the final part of the first season, which was about as compelling as a wet fart. I know it wasn't really the adaptation's fault, as it was more a matter of timing, but following up a really solid and exciting big climactic fight arc with a whole four episodes' worth of denouement and recovery and straight-up training (ah, the hoariest of shonen tropes) was...not exactly ideal. It was only a single episode, but the aftermath of the big shape-shifting mansion fight was one of the season's lesser moments for me as well. I think the main problem is that at least as far as I've seen, the main cast relies far too heavily on wacky hijinks and VERY LOUD YELLING for their downtime interaction, and that wears on you fairly quickly. (It doesn't help that I straight-up despise one of the three...)
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ZiharkXVI



Joined: 29 Jan 2009
Posts: 247
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:40 pm Reply with quote
JoelBurger wrote:
ZiharkXVI wrote:
Objectivity should always be the goal...or what's the point?


Objectivity only pertains to statements of fact. "Tanjiro is the protagonist" is an example of an objective observation (hence why people are telling you to just read summaries if you want objectivity). Reviews/critiques, which are not about statements of fact but expressions of one's perspective on a text based on their own experience, are by nature not objective. You seem to have horribly misunderstood what these words mean.


Utterly disagree. Definition of objective: "(of a person or their judgment) not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts." An objective argument is not impossible. The desire is not to be influenced by bias in making an argument or representing a fact. I do it all of the time. I make subjective arguments too, but those are less persuasive. For example, my points about Rengoku. Nothing about those points were opinion. I used the facts and logic to explain a position. It's an objective argument against several statements made in the review.

Reviews say much more than an opinion. I can absolutely hate something and still objectively realize it is good. Plus, I may be old school about this, but I am used to defending my opinion. Simply stating my opinion is kind of pointless (I've done it before, but who really cares what I like or don't?). However, maybe my opinion is based on a flaw in the show. Something I can both point to and articulate using facts/logic. A good example is an inartful plot device, or perhaps an inconsistency.

It's the old idea that everyone's opinions are equal that is the farce. I personally really dislike the anime Death Note (I've been told that's an unpopular opinion). But my personal dislike/opinion aside, I'd be a fool to say it was a poor quality show, or that it was badly written. It isn't. Just not my cup of tea. I can objectively recognize a lot of good ideas/techniques in the show.

Again, this is my point. And I didn't attack the reviewers personal opinion except to point out that all of his reasoning doesn't add up to what he was saying. Does he remember the training arcs from the first season? Is there any real reason why Rengoku shouldn't be important? Has the pacing really changed at all? If he's going to say that, I'm going to need to hear more about why. Otherwise I believe he's just wrong.
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KarlFranz



Joined: 17 Jun 2019
Posts: 120
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:49 pm Reply with quote
I disagree with the review. Like the transitional arc purpose is for the characters to cool down ,let the atmosphere settle down again before turn it back up. It would be really exhausted for the viewers to be constantly bombard by action and plot. It also help the intense moment standout more when in contrast with the light-hearted moments. Calling this filler is missed the point.
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Top Gun



Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 4014
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:42 pm Reply with quote
ZiharkXVI wrote:

It's the old idea that everyone's opinions are equal that is the farce. I personally really dislike the anime Death Note (I've been told that's an unpopular opinion). But my personal dislike/opinion aside, I'd be a fool to say it was a poor quality show, or that it was badly written. It isn't. Just not my cup of tea. I can objectively recognize a lot of good ideas/techniques in the show.

It's funny you bring up Death Note as an example, because I'd be willing to put forth a strong argument that it was badly written, that it uses hideously-circular dialog in an attempt to conceal the fact that it is not nearly as clever as it lets on. And that statement would be no more or less objective than your own. There are cases where one can acknowledge the quality of a work one does not personally enjoy, but even amongst the realm of professional critics you are never going to get universal agreement on the quality of a particular work. The "objectivity" you seek does not exist.
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JoelBurger



Joined: 14 Oct 2011
Posts: 232
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:59 pm Reply with quote
ZiharkXVI wrote:
It's the old idea that everyone's opinions are equal that is the farce


Everyone's opinions are equal insofar as they are all equally subjective. Someone may have a more informed opinion than another, but that doesn't suddenly make their opinion an objective "unbiased" truth. Nor does consensus equal objectivity; just because one community of people (however large that community is, from a friend group to a state) develop a consensus on what constitutes "good" art, those values are ultimately arbitrary and contingent because they can vary wildly from community to community and change over time. Because they're subjective viewpoints born from people with particular life experiences and stances, not objective statements of fact from a machine. I will echo what's already been said in response to your long ramble: you're looking for something that does not exist.
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Dab1za9



Joined: 27 Mar 2016
Posts: 68
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:01 pm Reply with quote
NeverConvex wrote:
I don't really understand the complaints about James' review. I thought he was spot on; the Flame Hashira's story was poorly told, and built little emotional connection with viewers.


Yeah the highest grossing anime movie of all times built little emotional connection with the viewers, you didn't even pass it as an opinion here but you acted like no one cared about Rengoku which is absurd.

NeverConvex wrote:

And: why did he so immediately accept that the three boys were a suitable replacement -- wasn't his order that he needed female members of the Corps? Was he thinking of Nezuko? This scene was the only one really pertinent to the new arc and it just seemed very strangely told.


Next episode will clear this and the OP already shows what Uzui was thinking when he accepted.
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