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Attack on Titan Creator Hajime Isayama at Anime NYC




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tintor2



Joined: 11 Aug 2010
Posts: 1935
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:18 am Reply with quote
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"I am aware that the ending of Attack on Titan was quite controversial. I am open to receiving people's honest opinions. However, I would appreciate it if you'd be kind to me."


Just don't visit twitter
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Kenfra



Joined: 10 Aug 2022
Posts: 127
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:52 am Reply with quote
Isayama bluntly admitting he's had enough of Marvel made my day.
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Minos_Kurumada



Joined: 04 Nov 2015
Posts: 1121
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 3:35 pm Reply with quote
Meh.

AOT ending could have used 5ish more chapters, but was good enough in my book and if the guy felt he wanted to leave it there then it was his decision.

You can like it or dislike it, getting mad its pure entitlement.
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TheSleepyMonkey



Joined: 11 Jul 2022
Posts: 932
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:47 pm Reply with quote
The part about Yuki Kaiji is interesting. I don't remember ever hearing of another case where an anime adaptation directly influenced the direction of the source material.
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King Chicken



Joined: 13 Aug 2022
Posts: 105
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:06 pm Reply with quote
tintor2 wrote:
Just don't visit twitter


I think all the annoying people are leaving recently so it might end up being better now.

I dodn't have much problem with the ending myself. But if it is pretty sad to see a creator have to specifically ask his western audience not to be mean to him when he shows up to a convention. Of course there were people who took that as a challenge...
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TheSleepyMonkey



Joined: 11 Jul 2022
Posts: 932
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:31 pm Reply with quote
King Chicken wrote:
tintor2 wrote:
Just don't visit twitter


I think all the annoying people are leaving recently so it might end up being better now.

I dodn't have much problem with the ending myself. But if it is pretty sad to see a creator have to specifically ask his western audience not to be mean to him when he shows up to a convention. Of course there were people who took that as a challenge...


The worst part is there were a handful of people who saw that request and their response was just calling Isayama a "pussy" and saying that he "isn't taking responsibility for what he did". Because apparently writing a bad ending means it's 100% fine foe you to get harassed.

I genuinely have never seen a fandom as toxic and as self-absorbed as the AoT fandom.
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thepepin



Joined: 22 Jun 2022
Posts: 69
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:49 am Reply with quote
Watches first episode of She-Hulk. (Note that he didn't say that he watched any others).
Decides that he is tired of Marvel.

Not a coincidence.
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johnnysasaki



Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 933
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:55 am Reply with quote
TheSleepyMonkey wrote:
The part about Yuki Kaiji is interesting. I don't remember ever hearing of another case where an anime adaptation directly influenced the direction of the source material.


that actually happens a lot. Oda created Franky in One Piece because he liked Kazuki Yao voicing Jango and Mr. 2 Bon Clay so much he decided to create Franky specifically to be voiced by him and join the Straw Hats so he could become part of the main cast rather than just sporadic appearances with the other two characters.
Plus there's the whole Broly thing.
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thepepin



Joined: 22 Jun 2022
Posts: 69
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 8:30 am Reply with quote
TheSleepyMonkey wrote:
tintor2 wrote:
Just don't visit twitter


I genuinely have never seen a fandom as toxic and as self-absorbed as the AoT fandom.


Not just Twitter or fandom. There were tons of literary-critical types who INSISTED that AoT and its author was promoting nationalist, militarist, authoritarian or right wing views. Some even accused it of being fascist. These accusations stuck and negatively impacted the discourse of the series for years. These folks picked apart every single line and scene in the anime and manga and every single statement made by or attributed to the author FOR YEARS to confirm their bias and rejected everything - including vehement repeated denials from the author - that didn't fit. And yes, ANN was a part of this ... I recall reviews criticizing AoT for "getting the Holocaust analogy wrong" when the author had already stated that he never intended such analogies in the first place.

And when the ending of AoT made it 100% clear that the work was never some fascist, Japanese nationalist or right wing fantasy - just as the author had spent years trying to tell people - absolutely none of the people who spent all that time creating and spreading defamatory disinformation against the work and author and in the process permanently damaged the reputation of both bothered to apologize. They just moved onto the next outrage (whether it was real or in their own heads).

I am not certain that the author was merely concerned about getting criticized over the ending in his first appearance before an American audience. He may have feared someone calling him a fascist. Or - to recall ANN's column attacking Final Fantasy 16 - being criticized for not having any black characters. After all, America is where the vast majority of the "AoT is Mahouka or Gate on steroids" stuff originated in the first place (though to be fair not all ... some of it came from South Korea too). To wit:

https://www.animefeminist.com/my-fave-is-problematic-attack-on-titan/
https://www.polygon.com/2019/6/18/18683609/attack-on-titan-fascist-nationalist-isayama-hajime-manga-anime
https://newrepublic.com/article/160193/attack-titan-alt-rights-favorite-manga
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ANN_Lynzee
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 02 May 2011
Posts: 2979
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 2:22 pm Reply with quote
thepepin wrote:
And yes, ANN was a part of this ... I recall reviews criticizing AoT for "getting the Holocaust analogy wrong" when the author had already stated that he never intended such analogies in the first place.


This isn't the first time you've engaged weird victim hyperbole. James Beckett has repeatedly stated in his reviews that he doesn't believe the show's narrative or themes support a pro-fascist or pro-war interpretation. Whether Isayama intended to draw allusions to the Holocaust or not, you slap a symbol armband on a bunch of people and round them up to live in designated areas, people will draw that allusion. It's ridiculous to argue otherwise. James, Jacki, and I also discussed this at length in the podcast.

From James own review: (animenewsnetwork.com/review/attack-on-titan-the-final-season/episode-5/.168282)

Quote:
Whether we are to believe Willy's new version of history as being any more concretely true than Marley's is also hard to know at this point, and I continue to be both curious and wary of how the show is basically framing the Eldians as the villains and victims of their own story. I'm holding out faith in the show's intentions, however, especially given how episodes like these do such a fine job of utterly laying bare the broken foundations of nationalistic ideologies, particularly fascism. Reiner and Eren's journeys reveal fascism for what it is: A murderous and self-defeating parody of the society it pretends to care about. Fascists seek to cast the most powerful and terrifying projections of themselves onto their friends and enemies alike, but at the end of the day, their work is built on the backs of hateful fools and broken children, spurred on by men with impotent egos and a crippling lack of imagination. The violence they cause may wreak havoc for untold years to come, but their legacies remain as flimsy and fleeting as shadows cast upon the wall of a stage.

Attack on Titan, to this point, has not peddled or glorified fascism, though I do think it has always attempted to understand it, and to weigh the inevitable costs of such a poisonous movement on the adults — and most importantly, the children — who might be suckered into dying for a fascist or nationalist cause. It asks us to seriously empathize with men like Reiner, who has done objectively deplorable things for the sake of a country that would not even regard him as human, though now he has been reduced to a crumbling wreck before his old friend. Reiner falls to the ground and begs Eren to kill him, because he wants to die, and because he knows that the storm of hellfire that Willy is out there prophesying is coming for them; it's already here, in fact, and standing on two good legs again. He knows that thousands upon thousands of people, many of whom Eren openly acknowledges are completely innocent, are going to die the horrible and terrible deaths that Eren promised him four years ago, and Reiner can't even say that it was because he wanted to save the world. He was just a selfish little boy that didn't want to die a failure.


He also discusses the allegory, how it's handled, and how it might make viewers feel here: https:/animenewsnetwork.com/review/attack-on-titan/episode-56/.147707

Quote:
Or - to recall ANN's column attacking Final Fantasy 16 - being criticized for not having any black characters.


The game was not "attacked" and this is a strawman argument you've made up. Besides, Attack on Titan has a Black character, Onyankopon.
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TheSleepyMonkey



Joined: 11 Jul 2022
Posts: 932
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 6:56 pm Reply with quote
johnnysasaki wrote:
TheSleepyMonkey wrote:
The part about Yuki Kaiji is interesting. I don't remember ever hearing of another case where an anime adaptation directly influenced the direction of the source material.


that actually happens a lot. Oda created Franky in One Piece because he liked Kazuki Yao voicing Jango and Mr. 2 Bon Clay so much he decided to create Franky specifically to be voiced by him and join the Straw Hats so he could become part of the main cast rather than just sporadic appearances with the other two characters.
Plus there's the whole Broly thing.


What's Broly's story?
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TheSleepyMonkey



Joined: 11 Jul 2022
Posts: 932
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 6:58 pm Reply with quote
thepepin wrote:
Watches first episode of She-Hulk. (Note that he didn't say that he watched any others).
Decides that he is tired of Marvel.

Not a coincidence.


Of course, there has to be the one douchebag that has to find any reason to dunk on things. Ah, yes, because She-Hulk would definetily be the ONLY Marvel content Isayama watched.
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a_Bear_in_Bearcave



Joined: 14 Jan 2019
Posts: 530
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:02 am Reply with quote
King Chicken wrote:
tintor2 wrote:
Just don't visit twitter


I think all the annoying people are leaving recently so it might end up being better now.

I don't have much problem with the ending myself. But if it is pretty sad to see a creator have to specifically ask his western audience not to be mean to him when he shows up to a convention. Of course there were people who took that as a challenge...

I think ending is really bad and deserve all the criticism it gets, and people are should be free to say that on Twitter, but also I'd never go to convention to see author whose manga disappointed me to tell them I didn't like it because it's pointless and rude. Unless I'd thought I missed something in their manga and hoped they'd explain that to me.

That said, if you think recent changes on Twitter will mean people there will like ending now, I doubt that. I think 4chan and similar places hated it even more than the lefty parts of the internet, judging by the memes.
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TsukinoSpoon



Joined: 13 Nov 2022
Posts: 37
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 7:50 pm Reply with quote
Other than the fact that Isayma is in the US now, I'm not quite sure why some users are calling out the English or Korean speaking fans. He faced a lot of criticism across fan bases, I mean Japanese fans were probably the most critical of the series' ending.
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