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NEWS: Togari's Yoshinori Natsume to Draw Batman: Death Mask


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HyperGatack



Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 148
Location: MA
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:10 pm Reply with quote
Well, nowI'll be able to read a Batmanga. Still sorta bummed about missing Child of Dreams. Thing just seemed to go out of print before I got into comics. (I curse the awesomeness that Is Booster Gold.) I always have that luck with DC >.>
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Highway Star



Joined: 28 Aug 2007
Posts: 227
Location: Ireland
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:13 pm Reply with quote
Hey, lest not we forget Katsuhiro Otomo's moody 8-page short on the Bat, The Third Mask, published in volume one of Batman : Black & White, which happens to be easily found among comic stores.
Yet to read Asiyama's version though, looks interstin'.
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lord-darkseid



Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 62
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:23 pm Reply with quote
Child of Dreams was excellent. One of the best Batman stories I've read in the past decade. You should be able to order it through Borders or Barnes & Nobles or something. I still see copies pop up when I'm in there.

Looking forward to see this new take on the hero. Hoping it doesn't disappoint.
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 14463
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:59 pm Reply with quote
Yay, another manga artist only a few people have heard of here! Go, DC!
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Dejiko



Joined: 18 Jun 2003
Posts: 276
Location: Holland (between Great Britain and Germany)
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:25 am Reply with quote
GATSU wrote:
Yay, another manga artist only a few people have heard of here! Go, DC!

Yeah, Kia Asamiya was pretty much a nobody as well.
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:42 am Reply with quote
Asamiya at least had the advantage of Streamline releasing the Mobius movie.
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The Xenos



Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Posts: 1517
Location: Boston
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:15 am Reply with quote
Well, I've got to complaints.

1) If this is a manga artist publishing in America, then it's debatable that it can be called manga. It'd say it's a manga artist doing a comic book. Otomo's was published in DC's Batman Black and White mini series first. Similarly, Nihei did that Wolverine: Snikt! miniseries for Mavel. Meanwhile, Child of Dreams was published first in Japan and in Japanese (right to left).

2) Wildstorm? What the hell is Batman doing under the Wildstorm imprint. Hasn't DC already bastardized the imprint enough?! Ugh. Wildstorm was so much better under Image, before DC bought them out. They screw over native Wildstorm titles in favor of DC books, so Wildcats and Authority is a mess. Ennis's The Boys was told it could no longer be published at Wildstorm, so they went to another publisher that accepted the racy material. I know there were a couple other screw ups. And now we have a Batman 'manga' getting published at Wildstorm. Can they confuse the Wildstorm imprint identity anymore?

Other than that, I look forward to reading this, whatever it's called and whatever it's released under.

Also, no one cares if it's a manga artist no one has heard. It's -!-MANGA-!-. And look, it's even by some Japanese guy, so that makes it more manga than American manga. Please note my sarcasm. I sadly think this is how people at DC and some fans think.

Though it sounds like they're publishing as regular comic book issues. That should turn off manga fans right off the bat. Um.. no pun intended.
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CCSYueh



Joined: 03 Jul 2004
Posts: 2707
Location: San Diego, CA
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:15 pm Reply with quote
GATSU wrote:
Yay, another manga artist only a few people have heard of here! Go, DC!


Just because you haven't?

I've read a couple volumes of Togari. I can see it as a good match.

You do realize paying for a big name costs more. Better to get a cheaper unknown who can fit the style.
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testorschoice



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 466
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:26 pm Reply with quote
The Xenos wrote:

1) If this is a manga artist publishing in America, then it's debatable that it can be called manga. It'd say it's a manga artist doing a comic book. Otomo's was published in DC's Batman Black and White mini series first. Similarly, Nihei did that Wolverine: Snikt! miniseries for Mavel. Meanwhile, Child of Dreams was published first in Japan and in Japanese (right to left).

Also, no one cares if it's a manga artist no one has heard. It's -!-MANGA-!-. And look, it's even by some Japanese guy, so that makes it more manga than American manga. Please note my sarcasm. I sadly think this is how people at DC and some fans think.


The flip side of the coin is that Japanese people don't make a distinction between "manga" and "comic" as some foreign fans think.

Look up "manga" in Japanese dictionary. It says nothing about it having to come from Japan or having to cater to Japanese audiences. Look up at the Japanese wikipedia entry for manga.

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/漫画

All three example pictures of "manga" in the Japanese entry come from outside Japan.

Now see how the Japanese people use the word "comic." Japanese people call everything from Tetsuwan Atom and Ouran High School Host Club to Superman and Sandman "comic."

Saying it is not a manga but "a manga artist doing a comic book" is a meaningless distinction to the Japanese. Any perceived distinction is invented by foreigners.
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The Xenos



Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Posts: 1517
Location: Boston
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:07 pm Reply with quote
testorschoice wrote:
The flip side of the coin is that Japanese people don't make a distinction between "manga" and "comic" as some foreign fans think.
You keep telling yourself that. I say look at the sales. When has a forign comic artist done that well in the Japanese market? If anything they have a cult following like manga has here in America. Though I'd say manga now sells better in America than US comics sell in Japan. Believe me, Japan does make a strong distinction between native Japanese books and gaijin books. Don't kid yourself.

Quote:
Look up "manga" in Japanese dictionary. It says nothing about it having to come from Japan or having to cater to Japanese audiences. Look up at the Japanese wikipedia entry for manga.

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/漫画

All three example pictures of "manga" in the Japanese entry come from outside Japan.

Now see how the Japanese people use the word "comic." Japanese people call everything from Tetsuwan Atom and Ouran High School Host Club to Superman and Sandman "comic."
Do you have a Japanese dictionary? Cause Wikipedia isn't the be all and end all, especially when you can't read the text. Can you tell me everything that page says? (Babelfish doesn't count for s---.) No, you're just looking at the pictures and a few words you recognize.

Quote:
Saying it is not a manga but "a manga artist doing a comic book" is a meaningless distinction to the Japanese. Any perceived distinction is invented by foreigners.
Again. Let's see how well this sells. In case you didn't notice. This isn't Japan. We're talking about a book selling in America.

Also, most everything about 'manga' in America is invented by foreigners. The word 'manga' is an invention based on the Japanese words. We're not typing in hiragana or kanji. It's English or romanji. So unless you want to start typing in Japanese, none of it is accurate. Hell, at least I've seen in Japan the use the English word comic or comics. Comictorama is a nice store in Akihabara. Then again in speech they usually say 'comikisu' and that isn't quite 'comics'. Long story short, there will always be something lost in translation.

I could just as well start calling every manga ANN reports on 'Japanese comics'. I don't. I call it manga out of respect of the Japanese author. I could also call this Batman book manga. Really, if it's an American published by a manga author, I can go either way on it.

Meanwhile, Japanese magazine Shonen Ace has published a Cloverfield manga on their website. I got no complaints there.

Also,if we insist on calling a Japanese mangaka working on an American book manga, then by that thinking Americans can never publish manga. They can only publish comics. You can't have it both ways. Naming it by origin of publication is the only way to go. It's a very literate and scholarly way to do it.
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testorschoice



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 466
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:11 pm Reply with quote
The Xenos wrote:
testorschoice wrote:
The flip side of the coin is that Japanese people don't make a distinction between "manga" and "comic" as some foreign fans think.
You keep telling yourself that. I say look at the sales. When has a forign comic artist done that well in the Japanese market? If anything they have a cult following like manga has here in America. Though I'd say manga now sells better in America than US comics sell in Japan.


Hergé. Tove Jansson. Charles M. Schulz. But again, the Japanese people call their works both "manga" and "comics," so it's a moot point.

Quote:
Believe me, Japan does make a strong distinction between native Japanese books and gaijin books. Don't kid yourself.


The Japanese people don't make a distinction between the terms "manga" and "comics." You're still clinging to the misconception that one way Japanese people distinguish between Japanese works and foreigns works is by calling only Japanese works "manga." Regardless of which sells better, the Japanese call foreign sequential art "manga" and Japanese sequential art "comics" interchangeably.

Quote:
Quote:
Look up "manga" in Japanese dictionary. It says nothing about it having to come from Japan or having to cater to Japanese audiences. Look up at the Japanese wikipedia entry for manga.

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/漫画

All three example pictures of "manga" in the Japanese entry come from outside Japan.

Now see how the Japanese people use the word "comic." Japanese people call everything from Tetsuwan Atom and Ouran High School Host Club to Superman and Sandman "comic."
Do you have a Japanese dictionary?


Several. Smile

Quote:
Cause Wikipedia isn't the be all and end all, especially when you can't read the text. Can you tell me everything that page says? (Babelfish doesn't count for s---.) No, you're just looking at the pictures and a few words you recognize.


That's why I also pointed out that Japanese dictionaries and, more importantly, Japanese people also don't make the distinction that foreign fans do. Yes, I can read Japanese, without Babelfish.

"Manga is sequential art. It is composed of pictures, panels, and words...."

"Ally Sloper's Half Holiday, which was published in magazine format in England in 1884 and starred Ally Sloper as the protagonist, is considered the first serialized manga."

""Substance and Shadow" (1843), a satirical manga from John Leech"

Quote:
Quote:
Saying it is not a manga but "a manga artist doing a comic book" is a meaningless distinction to the Japanese. Any perceived distinction is invented by foreigners.
Again. Let's see how well this sells. In case you didn't notice. This isn't Japan. We're talking about a book selling in America.

Also, most everything about 'manga' in America is invented by foreigners. The word 'manga' is an invention based on the Japanese words. We're not typing in hiragana or kanji. It's English or romanji. So unless you want to start typing in Japanese, none of it is accurate. Hell, at least I've seen in Japan the use the English word comic or comics. Comictorama is a nice store in Akihabara. Then again in speech they usually say 'comikisu' and that isn't quite 'comics'. Long story short, there will always be something lost in translation.


Actually, it's "Roomaji" (or just "romaji") and "comikkusu," but that's not important. Smile

Quote:
I could just as well start calling every manga ANN reports on 'Japanese comics'. I don't. I call it manga out of respect of the Japanese author. I could also call this Batman book manga. Really, if it's an American published by a manga author, I can go either way on it.


I'm just pointing out the inconsistency in calling people to task for supposedly re-defining the term "manga"--when such a complaint is itself based on a re-defining of the term "manga." The irony comes when the Japanese author himself (and Japanese people in general) would call the work "manga" or "comics." It's not a matter of "respect" to the Japanese author, who would call it both. It is only foreigns fans who are crying foul.

Quote:
Also,if we insist on calling a Japanese mangaka working on an American book manga, then by that thinking Americans can never publish manga. They can only publish comics. You can't have it both ways.


Except, I'm not insisting on this strawman argument. Smile I'm just pointing out that the Japanese wouldn't say, "It's debatable that it can be called manga. It'd say it's a manga artist doing a comic book." To the Japanese, there isn't this perceived distinction.


Quote:
Naming it by origin of publication is the only way to go. It's a very literate and scholarly way to do it.


It is not inherently literate or scholarly to choose the origin of publication as the "only way" to define manga. If people who use the language aren't following this arbitrary rule, then we've tipped over the scales towards linguistic prescription, as opposed to description. One linguistically descriptive method is to simply observe how people are using the term.
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 14463
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:56 pm Reply with quote
Yueh:
Quote:
You do realize paying for a big name costs more.


They're Time Warner. They can afford it.
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CCSYueh



Joined: 03 Jul 2004
Posts: 2707
Location: San Diego, CA
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:54 pm Reply with quote
Gatsu-
I remember the picture yrs ago of Trump & his Mrs shopping at K-Mart. Just because one is loaded doesn't mean one has to spend the bucks. Actually, how often do we see stories of miserly old people who pass away leaving millions?

The more money saved on production, the bigger the profit.
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mufurc



Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 612
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:59 am Reply with quote
I'm just wondering how those "Manga is for noobs and losers! It's not real art, it should be shunned!" folks in the comic industry are reacting to this.
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Highway Star



Joined: 28 Aug 2007
Posts: 227
Location: Ireland
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:21 pm Reply with quote
The Xenos wrote:
If this is a manga artist publishing in America, then it's debatable that it can be called manga. It'd say it's a manga artist doing a comic book. Otomo's was published in DC's Batman Black and White mini series first.

Sorry, completely forgot it was published in America first. Does anyone know the exact date issue 4 of Black & White was released? I only got the year, 1996. I just discovered it was printed in Japan in the January 20 1997 issue of Young Magazine too, so it definetely sounds like it came to the USA first alright.
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