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Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Ramparts of Ice
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FilthyCasual
Posts: 2710 |
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Part of me wonders if there's some other side of the story or misunderstanding RE: Igarashi. The rest wants to throw the whole guy into the nearest dumpster. I'm curious how Minato will react now that his pestering has finally backfired on him. It's a bit funny how both in this and in Polar Opposites middle school largely sucks while high school is infinitely better. |
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Thesarum
 SubscriberPosts: 775 |
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I guess that's somewhat accurate, 13 is a pretty crap time all things considered, 16/17 is in many ways a significant improvement, though a ways off the highs of college/uni. Of course, your mileage may vary. |
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TJ_Kat
Posts: 870 Location: Saskatoon, Canada |
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Minato rubbed me the wrong way from the start and this episode showcased how he's actually quite selfish and self-centered. He's not helping others for their sake - he's doing it for himself. And he does it whether the other person wants him to or not. Even after Miki calls him on it and warns him off getting too much into Koyuki's business, he persists. She repeatedly tells him to back off but he doesn't. He can't even fathom someone who wouldn't be grateful to be getting attention from him. But we're given enough of Koyuki's perspective to see just how creepy it is to have some random guy that she doesn't really know, who she's not actually friends with, constantly forcing himself into her existence uninvited.
I thought the review made a lot of assumptions in regards to Igarashi. Could they be true? Sure - and things don't really look good for him - but it seems like a lot of extrapolation from a very limited window of Koyuki's perspective. I'm with FilthyCasual wondering what more there is to the story. And regarding his comments about Miki, I don't think it was actually a dig at her looks specifically. He knew Miki pre-glow-up, and it sounds like Miki was a lot more... abrasive than we have even seen her be around Koyuki. That is the Miki in Igarashi's head, and spending a minute or two with Miki 2.0 isn't going to change that perspective, especially when it seems like she isn't behaving any different than she used to. The Miki he remembers wasn't cute so he doesn't understand why someone would find her cute now regardless of appearance. |
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TJ_Kat
Posts: 870 Location: Saskatoon, Canada |
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I really didn't like this episode. It felt too much like they were trying to frame Minato as the victim; that he was justified in his butt-hurt and confusion because Koyuki was overreacting. Except I felt like Koyuki's reaction was entirely justified. I said it last week, but the two of them are not friends. Even if Yota reassures her that he's actually a good guy, she has had very limited interaction with him and all of it has been him forcing himself into her space and being overly familiar.
Even the part where Minato pulled Koyuki aside so the other students wouldn't see her crying didn't sit right with me. I was disappointed that she just thanked him and it wound up being a bonding moment. Yes, he did help her out and save her some embarrassment, but it glossed over the fact that he didn't do it for her; he was worried those students would get the wrong idea about him. |
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Eilavel
Posts: 477 |
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I think Koyukis behaviour actually makes sense for Koyuki, who tends to overthink and be self-effacing. Her getting to a place where she thinks its a fault of hers is perfectly plausible to me.
What I do not like is the framing of the show is that this was the correct conclusion. Even Miyatos internal dialogue about how unfair it is for people not to like him just screams entitlement. This is a guy who dated a girl he had no interest in out of pity and just because he could! Similarly, all his efforts to connect involve sharing nothing of himself; theres not mutuality. Miyato has been built up in a way that makes it difficult for me to give him the benefit of the doubt. Either way, the resolution that its all Koyukis fault sits very wrong. Well, the show wanted to connect the two opposites, and I think Koyuki does want to make more social connections. I think it was badly done but I'm willing to move past that and see if it develops better after this point. Despite my issues with the overall arc, a lot of Koyukis internal monologue feels very true to life. Even when its disagreeable, its at least more interesting than most high school dramas. |
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Thesarum
Subscriber Posts: 775 |
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Totally agree - Koyuki's process here is entirely believable, but the framing of it doesn't really sit right. She was totally justified in feeling unsettled by his behaviour, and justified in telling him so. In his ego driven desire to do his magic "unlocking" trick, well meaning as it might have been, he never sought genuine connection, and never saw Koyuki as a full person, and so never saw how uncomfortable it was making her until it was too late. For the message from all that to somehow be "well, having and enforcing boundaries is the problem. Everyone should just be open and available to others all the time" is a bit... |
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One-Eye
 Posts: 2319 |
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I don't think the show was trying to frame it like Minato was the victim. I think that's Koyuki's perspective that she wronged him and didn't give him a chance. What we are shown is that Minato has a high opinion of himself and that if people don't immediately warm up to him then its not his fault its theirs or they are just too incompatible. He's a conceited jerk that doesn't understand that not everyone is into his busy-body attitude. I mean even when Koyuki is trying to apologize in tears he's thinking why do I have to console her? None of that makes me think he's a victim instead the show is telling me he's a jerk. That the story is having him discover that he may be attracted to her is what's off-putting to me. I hope the show is not setting them up as an eventual couple, because no matter that Yota says that Minato is not a bad guy doesn't make him any less of a jerk to me. |
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TJ_Kat
Posts: 870 Location: Saskatoon, Canada |
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Perspective and technicalities, but I think we're more or less saying the same thing.
...and then this episode did it again. The "moral of the story"/"I'm so lonely because I didn't get to go too" bit wasn't the least bit subtle. Knowing they were going to Miki's work for burgers wouldn't have changed the fact that Minato still had practice and couldn't go. If he was just pouty about it, then yeah, he's just being a self-centered jerk, but when chibi-Miki pops up and validates him that is the show framing it like he was wronged. But Yota didn't do anything wrong just like Koyuki didn't do anything wrong when she told him off. He asked Minato if he was free, Minato said no, Yota carried on about his day. There was no reason for Yota expound about what his plans were. It sounds like there is more to the Igurashi situation than what's been inferred from the very limited and biased information we've been presented previously. It also looks like a good chunk of whatever happened might be Miki's fault, and that Koyuki might not know about Miki's part in things. |
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Eilavel
Posts: 477 |
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Yeah, I completely agree. Minatos behaviour itself isn't a problem in a drama, but the stories persistent framing of his as right or the wronged party when he's just entitled definitely rankles.
Theres enough other stuff going on that its not going to make me drop it, but I can see it is going to annoy me probably all season. |
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Thesarum
Subscriber Posts: 775 |
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My take here was slightly different - that the stuff that was Miki's fault was the stuff we've already seen: The both knew Igurashi was interested in Koyuki, but she wasn't really interested back. Miki also knew that he was kind of a jerk who was entirely incapable of expressing affection for anything (without any real textual evidence yet: this is possibly because he feels that to do so is to show weakness, so he feels the need to be dismissive and abrupt all the time. Kind of the bad version of the "teasing the one you like trope" where there's no playfulness in it). However, due to her own relationship difficulties and some jealousy, Miki kinda pressures Koyuki into accepting it, despite knowing deep down and definitely in retrospect that such a guy is a terrible match for someone as shy and insecure as Koyuki. Miki can give as good as she gets with him, but Koyuki absolutely cannot. So Koyuki would know about it, but wouldn't necessarily realise that Miki's original comments about "isn't being liked enough?" were spiteful. Either way, she doesn't seem to hold the subsequent events against Miki, but Miki definitely does. Of course, it's also entirely possible Miki is somehow implicated in the wider bullying, but I'm hitting "doubt" on that for now. |
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TJ_Kat
Posts: 870 Location: Saskatoon, Canada |
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Wait, I was under that impression that Igurashi and Koyuki were already close friends and that Miki meddled them into dating (or that they had started dating of their own accord? Some of the dialog felt unclear and I didn't rewatch it to try and sort it out). |
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FilthyCasual
Posts: 2710 |
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Minato's suffering was hilarious and I hope it continues. I'm glad we finally get to dig into Yota some. Looks like everyone's throwing up walls in some way.
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Miya543
Posts: 13 |
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I feel like I'm warching a different show than you guys, because imo he comes across as an extreme people pleaser. He wants to avoid conflict at all cost and that's why he tries so hard with other people that it comes across as ingenuine. He molds into what he thinks others need him to be and what would make them happy. He wants to include everybody, so that everybody gets along and there's less drama. He's so emotionally closed off in that regard that everything he does feels almost mechanical. Everything needs to be controlable through logic and him catching feelings for Koyun is breaking down that mindset, maybe for the first time in his life. Nothing about him gave Jerk behvaior or that he was mean-spirited. I'm pretty sure his family issues are not that insignificant and it messed him up badly.
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Gina Szanboti
 Posts: 12725 |
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I know what you mean. While I don't necessarily have the same take as you either, I mostly wonder where everyone is getting all this stuff to form their views that I'm just not seeing. Like everyone else seems to perfectly understand what happened with Igurashi and Koyuki in the past while I still don't know what went down at all. All I know is that it was traumatic to Koyuki. I think I need to start over from the first episode. :/ |
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IronWish
 Posts: 231 Location: Ukraine |
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I'm with you here. Anime keeps blueballing viewers with regards to what the hell happened in damn middle school. We've seen bits and pieces, but the whole picture is elusive, there seem to be inconsistencies, and I kinda sus some narrative sleight of hand happening here, cause some flashbacks are so choppy it feels like show deliberately hides something. I'm afraid it might write itself a the corner if things keep going this way for a few more episodes. |
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