Forum - View topicKenshiro v. Goku v. Seiya.
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Boomerang Flash
 Posts: 1021 |
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It's interesting to compare these three characters because they are the protagonists of three famous and largely contemporaneous shounen action series. These series, I think, popularized a lot of the tropes for subsequent shounen action series. They are also quite interesting to contrast, because the series are quite different in tone, and these three protagonists represent different archtypes.
1. Kenshiro from Fist of the North Star is the successor to his art. He has learned most of its secrets, and he is self-learning to advance his own art. He is a stoic champion of justice who dishes out harsh punishments to evildoers. 2. Goku from Dragon Ball/Z is an idiot kid hero with no knowledge of fighting arts and equal lack of common sense. He is innocent and not particularly ready to kill. Through a series of masters, he progresses to be a master fighter. 3. Seiya from Saint Seiya is an adept but low ranked fighter. He is constantly pit against warriors of higher rank and wins through willpower, determination, fortune, and the help of his comrades, who become the focus of their own little stories within the main story. You can see these archtypes reflected in the protagonists of subsequent series. To take the big three of the last and current decade, Naruto of Naruto is a neophyte and an idiot hero. He is friendly and likely to see the good in his enemies. He follows in Goku's archtype. It's even more obvious with Luffy from One Piece. Ichigo from Bleach, though his series has much of the powerups and humor associated with Dragon Ball Z, is much more like Seiya--a neophyte who relies on determination and help to progress up the ranks. And you can doubtlessly see much of Goku and Seiya's influence in the less famous titles. Kenshiro, however, is kind of huddled in a corner, all alone. His archtype doesn't seem very popular at all, despite the continued success and popularity of Fist of the North Star. Guts from Berserk is really the only prominent example that comes to mind. However, Guts is not at all a champion of justice like Kenshiro, and Berserk is seinen. And now for the question of this |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 19138 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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It's a very interesting analysis, but you're overlooking one major point which probably explains a lot of the reason why the latter two archetypes are commonplace and the first one isn't: unlike the other two, Kenshiro starts out as an adult. Because he already has a fully-developed skill set, he doesn't need to grow (much). The other two do. Since those cut from the second and third modes are typically only teens (or younger!) when they start, they're more relatable to younger viewers. Watching a character grow into his/her full potential is also tends to be much more involving than merely watching the hero execute his consummate skill all the time.
And frankly, the Kenshiro model is more a reflection of an older style of hero (anime-wise), whereas the other two are more reflections of a newer style. Consider Kenshiro's closest archetypal matched in anime: Duke Togo (aka Golgo 13) and D from Vampire Hunter D. Both are mature characters who might have some teen appeal but are definitely more oriented towards older audiences. Both have been around for a long time, too; Golgo dates to the late '60s, while D dates to the (IIRC) late 70s. Now consider one of the closest teen equivalents: Kazuma Yagami from Kaze no Stigma. He is, frankly, a dick, and a fairly boring one at that, because he's already so completely mastered his power that little can seriously challenge him. He definitely didn't make the series worth watching. Last edited by Key on Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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My guess - and that's all it is - is that the Kenshiro style of protagonist is too violent for today's Manga-ka/editors/children. Goku's brand of idiot-hero appeals to children, while the Seiya brand of hero who wins with plucky determination is appealing to teens. I have no idea where Luffy sits. Adult males who want to relive their childhoods (the audience of One Piece is supposed to skew older than that of other shows)?
Edit: Key bet me to it and with a better reason. |
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KaosMaster
Posts: 1 Location: Moon |
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...I personally like the Kenshiro character type more than the others.
for one thing, he is a mature character, and is trying to battle a world of evil and insane people, many of wich are really powerful, for the sake of the weak, rather than just to get stronger. he is using his skill for the greater good of humanity, not just to be cool, but for other people, which i enjoy more than the usual "i want to be stronger to be stronger." that many heros go after today. i also preffer the masculin body type for male characters that Hokuto No Ken employs, rather than the feminine type that many anime have for their protaganists. it just seems awkward when some skinny kid smashes a building, where as Kenshiro crushing a mountain looks more plausible. to me, his toned body really represents his training and the skill he has built over years of said training. i think the Kenshiro type isn't popular now because most people are more narcisistic and , bluntly, self centered in this era than ever before, which is where the appeal of building personal power and becoming the best for the sake of being the best comes from. this doesn't apply to all characters, but it does to many. |
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hyojodoji
Posts: 586 |
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Just for your information, actually, the first Vampire Hunter D novel by Kikuchi Hideyuki was published in 1983. |
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Wiizard
 Posts: 27 Location: Igrejinha, RS, Brazil |
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Goku, because Dragonball was my first manga/anime, so it's the one I use for comparison with all other characters.
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Tris8
 Posts: 2114 Location: Where the rain is. |
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Some of my favorite heroes are of the idiot-hero archetype, so it is unfortunate how over-used it is. Vash from Trigun is probably my favorite idiot-hero, though it is different with him because spoiler[his obliviousness and air-headedness is all a show. He is genuinely good-natured and peaceful, but his simple-mindedness is all an act.] He is also much older than most idiot-heroes.
I like the Kenshiro archetype, but as Key said there isn't much room for growth. Goku Kamehamehas Kenshiro and Seiya FTW |
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trilaan
 Posts: 1100 Location: Texas |
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I think a lot of people tend to miss that about Vash, thanks for putting it out there. As for the comparison, gotta agree with previous posts, it doesn't quite gel. I'm thinking who would be a better fit than Kenshiro(one of my all-time fav seiyuus is Akira Kamiya, btw). |
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MrDandi97
 Posts: 30 |
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I'm in a tie between Goku and Kenshiro.I grew up with both of them. Although at the time i watched Japanese version i still knew they were awesome.But i kinda like Kenshiro more due to him being more mature but also because Goku is being treated like a child hero and used in comparisons when he is much better than that.
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yoshiyukiblade
Posts: 305 |
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I'm not into the archetype where the hero can win, or tap into his true power, through willpower alone. So I'd say that Kenshiro is probably the best of the 3. I like heroes that have already plateaued or were close to it, and developed further form there. Being one of the best, and going even farther than that, is one of my favorite themes in anime.
Another example of this archetype is Rurouni Kenshin, one of my all-time favorites. He was already a legend of his time and still defeated most of his foes effortlessly, but was always just short of realizing that "special something." The journey it took to shift how he portrayed himself as a protector was one of the most defining parts of his heroism and tale. |
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trilaan
Posts: 1100 Location: Texas |
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@yoshiyukiblade
I must be honest I LOVE characters with special powers, special abilities that can't be beaten physically or mentally, even if they come close sometimes. Kenshiro, Ryo Saeba, Kenshin, Kirito, Alucard and many others. Not just in anime but in all entertainment forms. I don't understand why these types of characters get dumped on so much. I find them to be totally empowering. |
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Pablo_Equis
 Posts: 45 |
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Was Son Goku perhaps groundbreaking in his departure from the dark, brooding heroes akin to Kenshiro? Was Son Goku's optimistic, undespaired, genial nature a defiance of the brooding hero trend of the time, or was this simply the evolution of Toriyama's formulaic protagonist? I'm not familiar with many cheery fighters from the 80's [although I realize Son Goku was more of an adventurer than a fighter upon his debut], but I was certainly not paying close attention during those years.
How about the 'bad boy with a heart of gold' character, such as Urameshi Yusuke? Isn't that also one of the classic anime/manga hero archetypes, or am I simply assuming this? |
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momthemeatloaf
 Posts: 47 |
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Yusuke lacked the happy energetic nature of Goku (and later naruto, luffy, etc) but he still began as a neophyte in regards to his powers. The "High school delinquent, but not really" archetype is definitely an anime trope, but I don't think it's as widespread as characters like Kenshiro, Goku, or Seiya, I just can't think of other examples like Yusuke. |
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