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Polycell
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4623
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Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 5:37 pm |
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| dragoneyes001 wrote: | | the US and darkest africa eh? go to school? history 101? US slavery maybe? guess you forgot that part of the population before making that statement. | Stop the bullshit. You made the claim "the most backwards people possible made up the majority of many societies"; I brought up the actual primitive peoples to point out the sheer idiocy of that statement. But then I guess "intellectual honesty" isn't a phrase you're familiar with. | Quote: | | so your only reference to the fifties TV is I love Lucy?
and saying censorship was only started in the Kennedy period is laughable in and of itself. | "I don't believe it so it can't be true!". TV shows aim to be what people want to see - and people wanted sterile fantasy at the time. TV was growing out it it when the FCC started intervening. | Quote: | | the previous quote alone is so far off base in reality its beyond laughable and downright scary you don't know better.
pretty much every advanced society has arranged marriages to say it commonly attributable to primitive societies shows a distinct lack of historical education. or did you think modern England,France ,Germany,Japan.....etc... are primitive societies? | I'm beginning to think your inability to properly write a post is a reflection of your intelligence. I merely said it was common in primitive societies; I said nothing about modern ones, certainly not that they didn't happen(you could read in the implication that it isn't common in modern societies, which just so happens to be the case).
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dragoneyes001
Joined: 07 Feb 2009
Posts: 873
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Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 5:43 pm |
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| Polycell wrote: | | dragoneyes001 wrote: | | the US and darkest africa eh? go to school? history 101? US slavery maybe? guess you forgot that part of the population before making that statement. |
Stop the bullshit. You made the claim "the most backwards people possible made up the majority of many societies"; I brought up the actual primitive peoples to point out the sheer idiocy of that statement. But then I guess "intellectual honesty" isn't a phrase you're familiar with. | Quote: | | so your only reference to the fifties TV is I love Lucy?
and saying censorship was only started in the Kennedy period is laughable in and of itself. |
"I don't believe it so it can't be true!". TV shows aim to be what people want to see - and people wanted sterile fantasy at the time. TV was growing out it it when the FCC started intervening. | Quote: | | the previous quote alone is so far off base in reality its beyond laughable and downright scary you don't know better.
pretty much every advanced society has arranged marriages to say it commonly attributable to primitive societies shows a distinct lack of historical education. or did you think modern England,France ,Germany,Japan.....etc... are primitive societies? |
I'm beginning to think your inability to properly write a post is a reflection of your intelligence. I merely said it was common in primitive societies; I said nothing about modern ones, certainly not that they didn't happen(you could read in the implication that it isn't common in modern societies, which just so happens to be the case). |
stop the BS you mean when i'm talking globally you trying to make it US only isn't bullshit? lets talk about historically how women have been subjugated " but lets only look at a country barely 200 yrs old to do it."
yes the educated before the 19th century didn't make up 15% of the total GLOBAL population so you look pretty WRONG trying to elude to a well educated majority.
"the most backwards people possible made up the majority of many societies"
is in fact the truth even in the most enlightened societies in ancient times education rarely amounted to 5% of the population. reading and writing was not high on the farmers list of things to know and math beyond knowing basic quantities and the difference between currencies was pretty much non existent.
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Polycell
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4623
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Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:17 pm |
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If you want a more global consideration, the primitive African peoples are far worse than almost every other society that's ever existed. Making it out of Africa, it would seem, requires a level of social advancement that stuck with the descendants of those who did.
As for education, again that's completely irrelevant - it certainly didn't stop "educated" Romans from thinking Etruscan women were sluts for socializing with men in public. Which reminds me that this all blew up because I had the temerity to suggest that women's historical status in most societies was second class rather than slave, a proposition you've yet to refute.
But then, this thread has nothing to do with Africans, Mediterraneans or Americans. It's about the Japanese, about whom you've offered no discussion.
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mjack_15980
Joined: 28 Oct 2012
Posts: 151
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Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:21 pm |
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actually there was some discussion on japanese earlier
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dragoneyes001
Joined: 07 Feb 2009
Posts: 873
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Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:25 pm |
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| Polycell wrote: | | If you want a more global consideration, the primitive African peoples are far worse than almost every other society that's ever existed. Making it out of Africa, it would seem, requires a level of social advancement that stuck with the descendants of those who did.
As for education, again that's completely irrelevant - it certainly didn't stop "educated" Romans from thinking Etruscan women were sluts for socializing with men in public. Which reminds me that this all blew up because I had the temerity to suggest that women's historical status in most societies was second class rather than slave, a proposition you've yet to refute.
But then, this thread has nothing to do with Africans, Mediterraneans or Americans. It's about the Japanese, about whom you've offered no discussion. |
go ahead quote where I said women were slaves? they had little to no rights for most of recorded history in the VAST majority of the world. women have been bought and sold in countless societies and only recently has that changed and even today with arranged marriages which go against the wishes of the women in question it still exists as does the mutilation of girls in some countries and in other countries even today women are expected to hide themselves in public according to the laws of those countries.
as for the japanese it was the norm that women walk one step behind the man to stay in they're social place. the japanese were not above the rest for a very long part of they're history either.
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Polycell
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4623
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Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:35 pm |
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I'm too lazy to research exactly what's been said, so I'll just go ahead and post this blindly:
I think the lack of sex in anime may also be a reflection of a possible contributer to the size of the otaku population: the traditional ideals of masculinity in Japanese society are no longer really applicable, so in struggling to find an identity many wonder into the world of anime. Since this culture would be rooted in disaffection from social changes, it only makes sense the media that caters to them would be far more conservative than that targeted at mainstream crowds; this conservatism naturally results in the need for "purity" and fidelity in female characters.
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dragon695
Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 1377
Location: Clemson, SC
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Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:30 pm |
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| Polycell wrote: | | dragoneyes001 wrote: | | you can not base beliefs in the past on today's standards and education. the lack of education in the past in MOST rural area's had a huge affect on social norms. in salem for example the only person allowed to read and interpret the bible was the very person who condemned women to burn for witchcraft. pretty convenient situation. in fact in a large number of communities this was true only the elder was allowed to read the bible and interpret the book. |
I'm sorry, but there are only two ways to describe this: "non sequitur"(education has sod all to do with cultural norms or your drastic misinterpretation of my comment) and "historically ignorant"(the Salem witch trials claimed a decent number of men as well and were pure land grabs powered by superstition - sexism had nothing to do with it). |
Indeed! Giles Corey would most certainly beg to differ, as would John Proctor. It wasn't even the leader of the church who convicted them, although his wicked attempts at land grabs would lead a number of innocents to be falsely accused, The trials were conducted by some asinine provisional governor who found himself out of a job when Massachusetts was recognized as an official colony by the British. Thus conducting these "witch hunts" was largely a means to curry political favor with the new powers to be.
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maaya
Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 976
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Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:44 pm |
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I think more often than not arranged / political marriage doesn't take into consideration the wishes of either of the partners. Unless the husband is old and rich enough to organize his own marriage, sons also just had (have) to accept whomever his parents chose.
To get back to topic, Genji's life kind of became a mess because he got married off to a women who didn't like him and for whom he didn't have much affection, so he went searching for love elsewhere. There are other real life examples like this, but I can't recall the names right now.
| Polycell wrote: | | Since this culture would be rooted in disaffection from social changes, it only makes sense the media that caters to them would be far more conservative than that targeted at mainstream crowds; this conservatism naturally results in the need for "purity" and fidelity in female characters. |
Ok, this makes sense, but doesn't seem to quite fit. Mainstream entertainment tv media, from what I've seen, is much more conservative than animes. Animes are full of fanservice and half-naked women you usually won't see in J-Dramas. Animes have plenty of "erotic" content, in live action they barely show tame kisses. Probably it's simply easier to show such thing with 2D characters rather than real actors. So, it would seems that the idea of "purity" is were animes draw the line (mostly). In that aspect the (male) audience might be similarly or more conservative than the average person. It seems that japanese mainstream tv is somehow more conservative than their (female) audience, because Sex and the City is quite popular in Japan and as said, mangas also deal with such subjects much more.
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SereneChaos
Joined: 14 Oct 2011
Posts: 384
Location: Middle of Nowhere, USA
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Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:09 pm |
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| dragoneyes001 wrote: | | you can not base beliefs in the past on today's standards and education. the lack of education in the past in MOST rural area's had a huge affect on social norms. in salem for example the only person allowed to read and interpret the bible was the very person who condemned women to burn for witchcraft. pretty convenient situation. in fact in a large number of communities this was true only the elder was allowed to read the bible and interpret the book. |
Quite the opposite actually. Most puritans believed everyone should be able to read the Bible and that reading it was an important part of spiritual life. The Puritan colonies had some of the highest literacy rates, especially among women, in the world at that time.
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dragoneyes001
Joined: 07 Feb 2009
Posts: 873
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Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:17 am |
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| SereneChaos wrote: | | dragoneyes001 wrote: | | you can not base beliefs in the past on today's standards and education. the lack of education in the past in MOST rural area's had a huge affect on social norms. in salem for example the only person allowed to read and interpret the bible was the very person who condemned women to burn for witchcraft. pretty convenient situation. in fact in a large number of communities this was true only the elder was allowed to read the bible and interpret the book. |
Quite the opposite actually. Most puritans believed everyone should be able to read the Bible and that reading it was an important part of spiritual life. The Puritan colonies had some of the highest literacy rates, especially among women, in the world at that time. |
and when(timeline) did the puritan community do this? but more importantly how much of the total global population do the puritans make up?
"most rural areas" that I'm using includes all the continents.
"a large number of communities" doesn't stop at the Atlantic ocean because one example happened to be on US soil.
as was said by another "superstition" (which by the way pretty much describes most religions since the belief in the unprovable is a form of superstition) was the leading factor in the witch hunts. sure the personal gains for those who initiated them were the driving force but they used religion to attain those ends. the misinterpretation of the bible during the trials led to the convictions.
the other thing about what you said "literacy" does not make the position puritan women had any more than support for the man or that they didn't have arranged marriages or that they could chose a career beyond the few the community expected of them. to do anything that went against the norm was to invite those very superstitions they feared or social disgrace. the puritan communities had extreme peer pressures on the entire population to conform or else.
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Key
Moderator
Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 19136
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
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Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:26 pm |
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We're straying way off-topic here. Get back on-topic or I will start removing posts.
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mjack_15980
Joined: 28 Oct 2012
Posts: 151
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Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:23 pm |
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| Key wrote: | | We're straying way off-topic here. Get back on-topic or I will start removing posts. |
yeah, can we go back to actually talking about sex in anime?
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kpk
Joined: 05 Apr 2009
Posts: 484
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Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:19 pm |
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Well, From The New World should have a yaoi sex scene, a yuri sex scene and a lot of other sex scenes.
Last edited by kpk on Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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st_owly
Joined: 20 May 2008
Posts: 5234
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:28 pm |
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| kpk wrote: | | Well, From The New World should have a yaoi sex scene, a yuri sex scene and a lot of other sex scene. |
Orgy time!
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mjack_15980
Joined: 28 Oct 2012
Posts: 151
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Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:20 pm |
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well i haven't been able to watch anime with sex cos of my age
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