Forum - View topicIs there anything "wrong" with Viz's translations?
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Josh7289
Posts: 1253 |
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I've been reading Shonen Jump since day one in America, and I've never taken up against Viz's translations of any of their manga in its pages, but after reading about other people complaining about the translations, I did a little research and found that Viz not only translates manga, but also tries to make the text flow more like natural spoken English.
Done correctly, I have no problem with this. However, I am about to purchase most, if not all, of the Bleach manga volumes in anticipation of its [adult swim] airing, and I simply want to know how well or poorly Viz is handing the translation of this particular manga. I don't want to be reading Viz's translation if it is not faithful to the Japanese version or if it is difficult to understand. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you very much. |
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Aizen
 Posts: 28 |
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I've read all of the Bleach volumes that Viz has released up to this point and I haven't had any real problems with them. There's nothing too cheesy or awkward, and when they introduce a place/attack/thing, they give its name in Japanese first and then its English translation. I really think that they did a good job with Bleach, but I could be lying to you as I can't really read the Japanese versions. Regardless, I'd suggest giving it a read.
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marie-antoinette
 Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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Viz's recent translations are very well-done and I've never heard any complaints about their handling of Bleach so I strongly suspect that it is done accurately, considering the popularity of that title.
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Webki
 Posts: 299 Location: Albany, NY |
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Hmm, I just did a comparision between chapter one of the raw I found online and chapter one of the Viz comic. Now I'm no pro with Japanese, but it seems that Viz did take some liberties while translating. However, all and all, I think they did a nice job. They definitely did the right thing by translating some of the sound effects to more conventional American comic book sounds... the direct Japanese translation of them are just weird (doo... where Viz has whump!... I'll take whump).
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Josh7289
Posts: 1253 |
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As a side note, what I prefer is when, in the translation, the original sound effects are left in with little "subtitles" for them, translated into their English counterparts. |
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alice20th
Posts: 74 |
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Companies don't have bad translations, individual translators have bad translations. All companies use freelance translators to do their translations, so the quality can vary from book to book.
Having a rewriter work on a book isn't necessarily a bad thing. Characters speak in different voices, and most translators specialize in converting the meaning, not the voice. Usually the rewriter is good enough to capture the same meaning, just in a voice that's appropriate to the character. Sound effects are a different beast altogether. If I were criticizing a translation, I wouldn't count the sound effects at all since the translation is what the action sounds like to the translator/rewriter. It's just too subjective to base a quality judgement on. On the other hand, the way sound effects are lettered is up to the company, and for the most part (if not the whole part by now), Viz has gone with completely replacing the sound effects. Since you like subtitled sound effects, Del Rey does it the way you like it (although they may not have the titles you want to read). |
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I_AM_L
 Posts: 138 |
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yeah, Del Rey is mostly just girls.
The only thing i have a problem with in VIZ's sound effects are those stupid "DOOM!!!"s in the background. (Although i'll admit it was funny when Luffy was like "WHY IS THAT MAN WEARING A PINWHEEL ON HIS HEAD?!" and there was a huge DOOM in the background. I laughed forever at that. Plus I hate their using words or sound effects to edit the art. |
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Josh7289
Posts: 1253 |
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Where do they do this? Is it only in Shonen Jump magazine or in their regular graphic novels? |
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ShadrachAnki
 Posts: 180 Location: New England |
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It should be pointed out that 100% direct translations generally are not very readable, regardless of how accurate they may be. English has a different grammatical structure than Japanese (or Chinese or German or French, etc). Additionally, each language is going to have its own idioms, slang, and dialects. Translation is an art, not a science. The best translators are the ones who are able to capture the essential feeling and meaning of a passage while at the same time making it read naturally and easily in the language they are translating to. This translation will most often not be a direct translation (aka, some liberties will be taken), but that does not mean it is not a faithful one. The translators employed by Viz Media seem to do an excellent job overall with their work, so I have very few problems with them or their editors/rewriters.
Viz Media made the decision somewhere along the line to fully translate and replace all Japanese sound effects in the manga they release. While some of their earlier titles (Fushigi Yugi and Alice19th are two examples) do have untranslated sound effects, all the recent ones are fully translated. Since many of the sound effects are part of the art, this translate & replace tactic can be seen as "editing" of the art, but I don't mind it. It definitely makes the series more accessible to general audiences, and that does seem to be the direction Viz wants to move. Sure, the edited sound effects can be kinda cheesy at times, but they're no worse than the sound effects in American comics or, for that matter, the original Japanese sound effects. Viz is one of the companies that will tone down artistic content in some of their releases, but it's taken on a case by case basis, and the only time I've really noticed it was on a chapter splash image in Hana Kimi (Umeda and Akiha are both in military uniform, and the Nazi symbols that were on the uniforms in the original were blacked out for the American release). Some people are really bothered by this sort of thing, but as long as it doesn't affect the story being told I don't see a reason to get up in arms over it, particularly since the same types of things happen in Japan as well, depending on current events and hot-topic issues. With regards to Bleach, the Viz translation has been excellent so far. They struck what I feel is the right balance between translation and preservation of culturally-based terminology, and it isn't cheesy or overdone. ~Shadrach Anki |
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Josh7289
Posts: 1253 |
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Thank you. ^^ |
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Malintex Terek
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Viz does not translate in a manner that "also tries to make the text flow more like natural spoken English" (which, I should note, is implied by the definition of translation); rather, it perverts the author's message by diminishing meaning to appropriate for young readers.
Firstly, I start with the premise that anything "bare bones" is uncontroversial; simply stating "who, what, where, when, and why" usually hold few objectionable pretenses (though, in the case of "murders/rapes/high crimes & misdemeanors", there might be turbulence), but the "how" is always a subject of trouble. In this, Viz edits by keeping their "least common denominator", or "the most accessible audience to which our product is deemed most controversial" in mind when they edit. I know this "LCD" not, but I would surmise it is a "child of a radically conservative evangelical Christian parent". As such, we can expect changes so severe that a "radically conservative evangelical Christian parent" could not have a firm ground in objecting to, save the very concept of manga (which some consider to be Satanic). Ergo, a series like One Piece with strong language (implied, of course; pirates and sailors, anyone?) would have dialogue changes or art edits. However, I should make it clear that Viz goes above and beyond these marginal errors by making their manga so completely "uncontroversial", they're insulting to not only a seasoned reader, but the casual browser as well. Viz's word choice is not precise and diminishes the "power" evoked by the art of words and pictures. In particular, the scene between Nami and Arlong (from One Piece) was among Japan's most iconic (and memorable) expressions of pathos, with the original (properly translated) following along the lines of:
Credits to stephen from manga screener. In any matter, "Dammit" is derived from "Damn you", which Viz translated as "curse you".
Wow, Nami sure sounds like Snidley Whiplash, the archetypal top-hatted fiendish feller from those old Hanna-Barbera cartoons. I can imagine Nami wrapping her thin, black snake-like moustache around her index finger and cackling, "hehehehehehe". ... It should be obvious that is not the message intended to be send by that powerful iconography. Viz butchered that scene as badly as 4Kids' did in the Anime. These insulting and sloppy changes are everywhere, though, as if Viz employees casually sifted through a thesaurus to find words that were ambiguous and less "absolute" than words such as "supreme" or "greatest". Funny, One Piece is defined by absolutes; the king of pirates, the greatest swordsman, a hero of land a sea. And, yet, Viz translates "Greatest Evil" to "Meanest Evil", blindly ignoring the redundancy of that terminology. Hey, what about "Sea King" to "Neptunian", when actual legendary sea monsters such as the Pisces, Kraken, or Leviathan are available as labels for the diverse beasties that appear throughout the series? Name changes at a whim are not unheard of; "the bandit" Zoro -> Zolo and "the Egyptian" Nefertari -> Nefeltari. These translations are linguistically correct but contextually very wrong. Few of Viz's dialogues "flow" well; try reenacting the dialogue out loud. Religious iconography or references are edited out entirely, despite "teens" (who SJ is primarily advertised to*) knowing about or having the responsibility enough to grapple with tough issues (like swastikas). I take little offense to the "swastika" problem, though; I am enraged by the editing of Sanji's line to, "do you believe in a higher power" from "do you believe in God (Christian- objective)". What, in the holy fudge, is Viz going to do with "GOD" Eneru and his "PRIESTS"? Not to mention Skypiea's angels and the coming of a "messiah" to free everyone from the monstrous tyranny of a cruel ruler and a clear anti-Christ figure. Yikes! The crème de la crème, however, is an illustration of how Viz considers Eiichiro Oda to be "stupid" simply because he cannot speak English, despite having advisors at his side to consult him on usage and grammar. For a little background, Oda's One Piece is a blend of many different cultural and linguistic influences; in particular, names written in Japanese appear foreign to Japanese readers but even more foreign to the people whose language the name is derived from. One recent example: "Haguwara D. Sauro". Such a name looks (to a foreign eye) distinctly Japanese, but in reality, it's an amalgam. "Haguwara" is a Spanish pronunciation (apparently) of "jaguar", and "Sauro", or "Saur", is a reference to the character "Paul" from the Christian Bible who was born "Saul" and "saw the light" of Christ (much like how Saul in One Piece became disillusioned with the Marines). "Sauro" is how "Saul" is spelt in the Japanese edition of the Christian Holy Bible. So, the correct name is, "Jaguar D. Saul". But, going back to the most insulting change, Viz believes that, since English is a difficult language, they typecast Oda as a typical of "manga-ka who cannot speak English" and make One Piece's first art edit, that of "Loguetown to Rougetown" because they consider it English. Granted, that would be an understandable edit since "Logue" is coincidentally interchangable with "Rogue", but the town in question is clearly and explicitly cited in the story as the "place of beginnings and endings". The place where "Gold Roger was born and where he died". A prologue and epilogue. Get it? Viz didn't. ...and they're the professionals. In an [exhausting] closing, Viz is a bloated and careless company that overpays its translators and art editors for mediocre work when non-native English speaking free-lance translation and editing groups can produce a superior product for free in an incredibly short amount of time. If I were an employee of Viz with any speck of self-respect, I would find it embarrassing to call myself a "professional" when "the enemy" can do things better than I can. |
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I_AM_L
Posts: 138 |
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@black cat avatar man
No, i actually mean they use sound effects to edit the art on purpose. Like in Shonen Jump, the used "BA-BUMP" to cover up Iori in the I"S preview |
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