Forum - View topicReasessing where I'm at as an anime fan.
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Tyrenol
Posts: 398 Location: Northern California |
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Pardon my ranting. Just assume that I'm talking to myself if this annoys you.
With all this "no-dub / sub-only" craze going on, I felt that I had to get this off my chest before I go to work and end up venting throught my shift. I always thought that an English dub in any anime was the best way of putting people in our country to work. It's bad enought that we're snatching cartoons from other countries (thereby forcing them to outsource their work worse than the good old US). But some folks (over as JapanAnime and Bandai Visual) open the can of worms and says symbolically: "Having no English dub saves money and keeps the anime pure. Here! Have some booklets, pencil cases, post cards, music CDs, and everything else that will never take the place of local talent or work." Companies blame the internet. But the real blame should go to NuTech. That former adult-anime licenser had introduced the downloading of adult anime without the consent of companies like Pink Pineapple and Ken Groove. Now Pink Pine had shut its doors to the West, Green Bunny had dropped off the map despite its works still being released, and Ken Groove (I believe) hates the West. 
This is my "conspiracy theory," though: I believe the "bad English dubbing" between the old Bible Black series and A Time To Screw had been deliberate. The same actors and actresses I'm hearing in adult anime; I'm hearing in regular anime. They have the capability. They just didn't have the right leadership. And by that time everything is corrected, it's too late. (Kitty Media is planning to release ...The Milfing Man with no English dub. I'm calling them tomorrow to find out if this is on a "from now on" basis.) As someone with not much money to be throwing around, I see an English dub as the only legitimate reason to put money on anime titles. Most of them don't have good plot and character development. They're all basically "the guys stay on this side and the girls stay on that side." I gag when someone wearing a suit and tie comes from out of nowhere and says something like, "Gundam 00 will differ from Gundam SEED in that the 4 main characters will appeal not only to female fans gained with the previous Gundam, but to male fans who prefer harsh outlooks of the world." Like one or two of the leads can't be a female. I'm not asking for the cheap fanservice provider from Gurren Lagaan; but for someone like Chris McKenzie from Gundam 0080. But yeah. Thanks, Ted Divine (of JapanAnime). Thank you, Mr. Bandai Visual person. Thank you for basically flipping the middle finger towards those who actually care about how good stories (and raunchy ones at that) translate verbally; and then writing the middle finger off as "paying respects to the original Japanese voice acting crowd." |
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KyuuA4
 Posts: 1371 Location: America, where anime and manga can be made |
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As for my reply -- I say, "Duh".
But anyways, you're well over 10-15 years late on this. But thanks for contributing. 
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LydiaDianne
 Posts: 5634 Location: Southern California |
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I have to agree with KyuuA4 on this part.
But it was a good rant. You should have submitted it to Zac and Hey Answerman. Wether or not Hentai titles are dubbed or not have no meaning to me but I do enjoy listening to dub tracks of the anime that I do like. Sometimes I just don't want to read my anime. |
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
 Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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Well the sub only movement is not a craze it's a trend. But companies take into account what they believe is most profitable with the least amount of cost rather than what the fans claim they want. Fans are so split sided on whether they prefer subtitled or dubbed anime that companies have literally poured countless amounts of money in providing them with both, at the expense of actually licensing and releasing some really good titles. Gaining a title is one big step of the process, final production of it before it's released to English speaking audiences is another big step and entirely separate as far as economics is concerned. They may get lots of criticism but I feel what Media Blasters and (to a lesser extent) Bandai Visual is responding well to that trend. For Media Blasters releasing sub only is more of an excuse, with BV it's more of an objective. Which of them is right? I don't know.
You do realize in the old VHS days when each title had 2 separate versions (S or D), that the reason why dubs we always cheaper was because they were in higher demand. Dubs took a lot more money to produce than subs. Because people bought subs and were willing to pay a little more for them, the greater profit margin per unit subsidized the greater demand for Dubs which could be sold at a smaller profit margin. However now in the DVD days the consumer base is so much more preferential for subs because we drill it into each other's heads that anime SHOULD be left as pure as possible. But since DVDs have greater convenience of choice for all fans there's no need to treat each title as 2 separate SKUs, at least retailers don't. But from the mindset of some licensors, maybe dubs aren't even all that necessary. In the end this answers my question about MB and BV. My answer? Media Blasters. Last edited by P€|\||§_|\/|ast@ on Sun Jun 24, 2007 10:50 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Eruanna
 Posts: 451 Location: Canada |
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....to be absolutly honest, I completly did not understand that whole post. What are you getting at? Something about dubbing versus subbing, and then something about female lead characters? Im sorry, am I the only one confused?
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ManOfRust
 Posts: 1935 Location: Seattle, WA |
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No, you are not. I think he/she is unhappy because of the upswing in anime (especially hentai) being released without a dub. I was under the impression that companies are more or less only doing this with titles that they consider borderline in terms of sales potential. I believe their thinking goes along the lines of "well, this title probably won't have broad appeal, but the hardcore anime fans might buy it. It's expensive to make a dub, so we'll just put it out subtitled since the hardcore anime fans who are mostly the only ones we expect to buy it won't be put off by subtitles like the more casual fans might." They probably figure that the incremental additional sales they would get from having a dub would not come anywhere near covering the costs of producing that dub. Since hentai is niche segment of anime which is already a niche product itself, it may be that it gets the sub only treatment more often. |
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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And Media Blasters has its hentai line. I'm not certain but I think all of their hentai titles are sub only, but I'd estimate that nearly 70% of their profits comes from hentai. Bandai Visual is too much of a big name with a reputation that they couldn't even consider adapting adult tiles. Which means that Media Blasters are kind of the underdogs of the anime industry. And they are good underdogs. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 19175 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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It may seem this way based on forum traffic, but sales figures provided by anime retailers consistently fail to support this. Non-hentai anime releases with dubs still invariably sell better (usually much better) than titles without them. Of course, that's probably because the vast majority of fans who don't bother to speak up in forums either don't mind dubs or prefer them. The ones that speak in forums tend to be the more hard-core bunch, which is more sub-leaning since they're also the ones most prone to watching fansubs. Personally, I don't see a problem with a lot of hentai titles going sub-only, since all too often the English dub on them is terrible anyway. It's the one type of anime where I almost always switch to the subtitles if I have a choice about it. Last edited by Key on Mon Jun 25, 2007 9:49 am; edited 1 time in total |
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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Yes you are absolutely right Key, I shouldn't have limited my the target group I was talking about to "consumer base" plus I said that more fans prefer subs (as opposed to the VHS days), I didn't say the majority of fans prefer subs. Plus fansubs have infiltrated our culture so much that (sic. I'm criticizing fansubs again) that we know there have been repercussions in the anime community for people who just dislike dubs and may use that as an excuse to not buy DVDs.
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Eruanna
Posts: 451 Location: Canada |
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I really couldnt figure out if the poster was in favour of subs or dubs, and that whole section on a "conspiracy" theory makes no sence to me. They seem to be saying that the bad acting in those titles was deliberate, but did not say any reason why this may be so? ...and I still dont get what this has to do with female vs male characters in Gundam. ._. |
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Tyrenol
Posts: 398 Location: Northern California |
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I know I'm too late. But I always thought that the "Golden Age" of anime releases was at its peek during the world-wide acceptance of the DVD. Circa 2000 through 2004, I believe.
And I'm a guy. Who prefer dubs and wouldn't mind subs. But it mainly depends on the company. If you pay attention to the news, you'd understand that times are hard. And during any other time, I'd label this as "companies taking the easy way out." Mainly because they bit off more than they can chew by licensing too many titiles at one time. And I should've mentioned more clearly that it depends on the content of said anime title(s). There's a reason 20-60 anime series are being aired in Japan: It's been the same system Hollywood uses. Throwing wet noodles to the wall and hoping something would stick. |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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If you look ONLY at the numbers, fansub downloads are pretty big, obviously there are a large number of people who don't mind WATCHING subtitled only (since "fandubs" are nowhere near common). However, there's a quesiton about whether or not people will BUY subtitled only or even buy their anime at all. So the question is where and how the disconnect factors in. Companies like Bandai Visual realize that there are people out there that are "hardcore" fans of anime, and THOSE people will buy their anime no matter what. (there are a small number of hardcore fans that import direct from Japan with no dubs OR subs) Companies like BV are trying to address THAT market and saying "screw the 'mainstream'" because numbers show those people aren't going to support "niche" titles in acceptable amounts. I personally applaud them for that choice.
When you see enough people saying "I'm waiting for the thinpak" or "I'll rent it" or "I dunno if it's worth buying", then you can see where they are coming from. |
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Tyrenol
Posts: 398 Location: Northern California |
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That's true. But then the next question could be asked: How far would Kadokawa et al. would go if the lead girl in the ASOS Brigade didn't speak any English at all? And is the "hardcore anime fan" market so big that they're willing to release Haruhi in Regian 1 without dubbing and be able to get back a large profit? I don't know if the guys over at Bandai Visual had realized it yet. But it could've been possible to make a little more money. |
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TheVok
Posts: 613 Location: North York, Ontario, Canada |
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I would. Dubbing makes me wretch. If not dubbing a series meant the DVDs would be cheaper (i.e. due to not incurring the cost of dubbing), that would be very cool. But the business case isn't there. Dubbing generally increases anime's accessibility to North American audiences more than sufficiently to warrant the cost. And I don't begrudge the dub fans their dubbing. It's on the DVD, but I don't have to listen to it; the only benefit of it for me is it helps make anime more broadly available. I know that without the 'necessary evil' of dubbing, a lot of series wouldn't be as easy to come by as they are. |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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Neither of you are getting the point. It's not ABOUT selling it to you if you're making any reason why you're not gonna buy this release. BV's releases are about targetting the anime equivalent of that market that'll buy the Directors Cut of Highlander after the movie has been available for years if not a decade and costs a premium. The people that'd buy Harry Potter hardcover on release night even if it was full price even though a paperback is sure to come out later on down the line. The people that waited in line for Star Wars ep. 3 for weeks even though eps 1 & 2 were total garbage.
And why? Because those people will buy this stuff, you could give them a horrific markup and they'll still gobble it up because they are obsessive FANATICS of the material. That's a market you can COUNT on when the release comes out and consistently plan for. Unlike the market that watches a show like Princess Tutu, raves about how awesome it is, tells you non-stop that they should make more and then never buys the DVDs because "maybe they'll come out cheaper later". Shows like Naruto will always have the dub, because they run on TV and you KNOW a large number of people will buy them. but for a niche title, if you can pick up a half dozen US sales for the Japan price and sell to your primary market at normal prices, why bother losing some profit in your CORE market (Japan) to the US imports on the Internet and really see only minimal gains in the US market. I mean, I don't know how many DVD units they move in Japan, but manga moves at a considerably higher clip. So if they only see a 50% dip in sales at twice the cost in the US and Japan sales remain static, it's worth the change. Even more so if sales don't drop that precipitously. Otherwise, if they see 100 sales in the US at $20 or 50 sales at $40, but then their domestic (in Japan) sales are like 800 at $40 and then another 200 ordered from US at $20, vs all 1000 sold in Japan at $40, well, obviously it's more profitable to just say "screw the US market". |
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