Forum - View topicFrieren: Beyond Journey's End (TV) (w/ index).
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ACｘS
 Posts: 1226 |
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23:
Interesting dynamics. Dungeon crawl: it is what it is. The more interesting part is how each character chooses to deal with it. As expected, some people choose to work together. Others choose to go in solo. Those who choose to work together stick to those they're already acquainted with. Make sense: people like Denken and Wirbel find it much easier working with the same people in the first test since they already know their strengths and weaknesses. I know it's just a lighthearted moment to see Frieren falling for another mimic again, even after knowing that her success rate is just 1%. Sheer optimism? Perhaps. But in Frieren and Fern's flashbacks, it's actually a bit more than that. Frieren's treasure hunting is no different from Himmel's dungeon clearing: it's the spirit of exploration. Gamers who habitually makes sure they cleared a level 100% before moving to the next one would know this intimately. It even comes back to when Frieren met Serie and how their differences were shown: Serie sees finding and learning magic as a means to an end. Frieren simply enjoys it. |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 3443 |
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Quote fix, taking into account Frieren at this point is struggling with the mimic and is in no fit state to hold a conversation with anyone. |
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15852 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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Yep, it is the gamer habit of find exactly where to go, and then going in the opposite direction to explore everything, Falling to the mimic specifically reminded me of something, which I think was a level in Kid Icarus Uprising. Where there is a random chest that is clearly a trap (calling it out even), but the game still knows that every player is going to fall for it, because no gamer can ignore an unopened chest. Had my share of setting off obvious mimics too. |
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ACｘS
Posts: 1226 |
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23 episodes in and I can still get their names mixed up. |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 3443 |
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#24
Pacing slows down a bit, since we viewers need to find out just what kind of opponent the copies are before Frieren and the others can make their move. Like the other first-grade mage said a few episodes ago: innate luck is also a factor in determining whether mages pass or fail the exam. Some, like the hypnosis expert, have no luck and run into strong copies early on. Others like Frieren's group don't meet a single clone at all despite exploring the uncharted labyrinth from top to toe and only have to face serious battle right at the end. It makes a mockery of the commonly held misconception that the exam is set up to fail participants: there are plenty of candidates remaining who have every chance of passing the stage provided Frieren and Fern pull off what everyone else considers to be an impossibility. For the parties which have no luck, they can compensate with teamwork and correct tactics. Ubel for the latter, while Wirbel's trio used both. Everyone else who isn't travelling alone relied on stealth and careful navigation. Despite the dangers posed by the clones, only two have officially retired from the stage. Sense might be a pacifist but she certainly puts the squeeze on candidates to test their worthiness in a different way from her bloodthirsty peer. The hypnosis expert said something very revealing in her exposition on the history of magic: modern mages no longer bother creating something out of nothing for reasons of mana efficiency, and their repertoire of spells is ill-suited to dungeon running because the vast majority of dungeons were cleared when the Demon King was still alive. Himmel's party had a hand in that, since Himmel made it a point to completely clear dungeons as enjoyable detours in the grand quest. Frieren is a mage of the old school, so she has offensive magic which might suit their purposes next week. And if she does, so does the clone. In a battle of titanic equals, it will be Fern who has the pivotal role of killing her master (the clone, not the real thing). Frieren did say she'd lost to mages in the past who wouldn't beat her on paper, and if Fern kills her clone that would be another added to the list. It won't be as easy as it sounds, but Fern is the only one who can do it as I suspect Denken and his crew don't have the tools to deal with Frieren at any distance. The powerful mage Methode with her basic kit of anti-mage techniques has already shown as much. Clone Frieren not using anything stronger than multi-shot Zoltraak so far, but the four of them can't take her on in a fair fight as they'd lose in a battle of attrition. Fern with her ability to shoot faster than her master has one factor in her favour, but she'll need to get past the clone's formidable defences. How they do that is going to be the entertainment for the next few episodes. |
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smurky turkey
Posts: 4997 |
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Teamwork truly is the name of the game for this challenge, Denken had the sensible idea to go at it as one group, but oh well. Looking at the number of clones appearing, it does not seem like 2 people will always face 2 clones, the numbers are not rigged to keep things fair. This means that going at it alone might make you face several clones at once and at that point.....rip.
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 25599 |
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Not only that but two of the clones are absolute monsters: Frieren-clone and Sense-clone. At least the group facing Frieren-clone has the real Frieren with them, so they have a fighting chance. Those two dudes facing Sense-clone are toast. Anyway, had to chortle at Fern's possessiveness of Frieren after that one mage chick was hugging her and stuff.
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ACｘS
Posts: 1226 |
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24:
That mage who brushed off Denken and chose to go in solo? Sure sucks to be him right now. Bro looked defeated not because of a clone; he's just lost. To be honest, Denken wasn't just being smart for wanting to team up. The way the test is set up, teaming up is simply logical. Unlike the first test, it's not a zero-sum game; anyone who makes it to the end of the labyrinth passes. If everyone makes it, then everyone passes. If teaming up raises your chances of passing, then why not? If you turn down the offer and lose, it's on you. Interesting to see how everyone is dealing with the luck of the draw with whom they have to face. Wirbel and Co. got not-Wirbel and Co., and they got stuck in a battle of attrition but Wirbel has something up his sleeve. Ubel and Land got Ubel, but they had an advantage in numbers. Edel and Co. had terrible luck with not-Sense; even gamers know that a non-offensive mage like Edel can't match with not-Sense who's just on a different level of firepower. Frieren and Co. are teaming up with Denken and Co., and they have a huge advantage in numbers against not-Frieren. Interested to see what Fern has in mind with "brute force"; Ehre learned first-hand that Fern has a talent for that. Side note: Edel's talk about magical evolution throughout the ages is intriguing. It's similar to world languages in a way; as they evolved, old languages died when nobody used them (here, modern magic is useless in dungeons because well, dungeons aren't in use anymore). That's why old language (and in the grander scheme of things, tradition) preservation is important, although I'm sure some may not feel that way. |
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zfunk
Posts: 546 |
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This show has made care about some of the other applicants passing this exam besides Fireren and Fern, and Denken is top of the list. Go get him old man.
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Nom De Plume De Fanboy
Exempt from Grammar Rules
Posts: 681 Location: inland US west, pretty rural |
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I'm hoping that Fern's plan is to make a mimic, put one of Fireren's grimoires in it, and say "Look, not-Fireren, there's a nice juicy grimoire in here. Wouldn't you like to have that?" And then murderize her when she dives straight in to get it and gets stuck with her behind hanging out.
 All of which is assuming there's some way in hell to get Fireren to let go of one of her books.
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yuna49
 Posts: 3804 |
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Loved how pouty Fern was in that scene. |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 3443 |
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#25
There's lots of fireworks when Frieren clashes with her clone, and one on one it would have been the clone winning through attrition. However, Frieren plays the long game (just as she did with Aura) and the groundwork for defeating the clone was literally laid immediately after Fern was taken on as an apprentice. With the true reason behind her limitation revealed combined with Frieren's accurate read of what her allies are capable of, Fern has fulfilled Serie's prophecy. Hopefully it's not the main body that's the target anytime soon. That said, the battle is only half won. The remaining contestants must fend off the approaching clones and buy enough time for Frieren and Fern to finish the job. If they fail the tower defence job and the clones are allowed through before the door can be breached it will be all for nothing. Next week has the spotlight shift to the defenders, and if the planning is as good as the execution it won't be any less entertaining than this week. The background exposition this week takes up a surprising amount of airtime, and for good reason. Even Serie the oldest elf alive can be moved to acquiesce to her apprentice's wishes even if it took a millennium longer than Flamme wanted. She set up her stall quite explicitly during her chat with young Frieren, so something must have changed after Frieren's success to convince her to take up the position. Will we find out what that catalyst is before the adaptation ends? Not everyone is at their post. Wirbel and his group are not at the defence point yet and neither is Land and Ubel. Even the PK crazy Ubel will pitch in if they get that far as the goal is literally in sight. Will they make it in time? Since it's a co-op even staying alive after Frieren and Fern do their part might be enough. |
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zfunk
Posts: 546 |
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I wonder is this going to end with all the mages meeting up and defeating the monster?
If the lesson is team work, this is an unusual way to get to it, normally outside forces have to interfere to get a massive team up. But the examiner is setting all this up. |
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smurky turkey
Posts: 4997 |
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It is a completely different lesson than the first exam. The first one focused on competition between mages and was rather ruthless in that regard. The second exam is no picnic either, but it does not seem to be an exam you can beat alone unless you are really lucky matchup wise.
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ACｘS
Posts: 1226 |
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25:
This is perhaps one of the most thought-provoking episodes in a very long time. Most people would find the climactic fight to be the highlight, but the clash of schools of thought between Serie and the late Flamme was essentially the core of what it means to be a mage. We saw how the two didn't see eye to eye, and Flamme declared Frieren to be the mage to represent the "new age" i.e. post-Demon King era. The disagreement was never really explained, until now. Serie has been gatekeeping magic only to people with the talent for it. Flamme wanted to liberate it and let everyone have access to it. This clash of schools of thought is critically topical in today's climate; it's analogous to say, should everyone have access to AI? Like AI, magic is a powerful tool that demons were thought to possess in their arsenal, and Flamme wanted humans to level the playing field and give them a fighting chance (and in hindsight, since Frieren and Co. did defeat the Demon King, she was right). Serie was against this, perhaps for several reasons. Maybe she is a purist, and magic should be reserved especially for those who can wield it. Or more importantly, knowing how fearsome human development is, she worries about the day when humans finally take over the world, spelling the extinction of elves. She may believe that humans can be the new threat replacing demons. As for Frieren, she thinks that by liberating magic, it will flourish and evolve and become even more diverse. As an explorer of magic, she simply couldn't be happier with this. |
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