Forum - View topicThis Week in Anime - Over Hype and Anime Stagnation
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Greed1914
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I will say that I am at least grateful that there is interest in making anime that probably isn't going to be the next big thing. Any creative medium is going to become painfully dull if those making it can't make something that they at least find interesting themselves.
But, I do get the temptation to focus on the big things when it all costs money. That Concord example makes me think of some recent coverage I've seen of why companies got fixated on live services. Most will flop, but when they hit, they can hit big enough to offset all of it. It's easy to roll my eyes at the yearly CODs and Maddens, but when something like five games make up half of total sales, it's hard not to acknowledge that people will always gravitate towards popular things, perhaps even more so if they don't otherwise engage with a medium. |
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Joe Mello
 Posts: 2560 Location: Online Terminal |
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I feel like while Zenshu definitely is about its time, I don't think it could only be made in its time. Otherwise, that discounts something like Keep Your Hands Off Eizouken or even things like 16bit Sensation, Shirobako, and similar all the way back to Millennium Actress or further.
I also think the Solo Leveling cudgel is a red herring of an argument to a degree. The most-nominated anime that didn't win any CAA's was Ranma 1/2 with 6 noms (vs Solo's 13). All of the others with more--Demon Slayer, Solo Leveling, Apothecary Diaries, Kaiju No. 8, Delicious in Dungeon, Frieren, and Dandadan--all had at least one win, with all but Kaiju winning multiple. The nature of the CAA's means the popular shows will be the ones that get the most acclaim and awards. You could make a Solo Leveling-based argument about the greater influence of the current Korean Wave of pop culture, but that's a separate discussion. I agree that the process of choosing and creating anime needs changes, and I'd prefer changes that support labor the most, but one thing to keep in mind when talking about the industry writ large is an axiom I learned through discussions of the American film industry: "No one knows anything." The same company that wants you to take the Anime Awards and its winners Very Seriously lost their chance at a nine-figure film and perhaps the Next Spider-Verse when it sold most of the rights to K-Pop Demon Hunters to Netflix. One of Disney's longest running TV series is a magical girl "anime" from France that just turned 10 and is still making new episodes despite multiple carrier changes in the US. The biggest new game of 2025 is actually an old game about horse girls, but it just got a bigger release and has become an instant cult favorite. In short, no one knows what the next hit is going to be; not the corporations, not the animators, not the artists, not the audience. We'll only know when it hits. |
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Takkun4343
 Posts: 1752 Location: Englewood, Ohio |
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When it comes to pointy ears, Nerine from Shuffle! is the exact point (heh) where I consider them "too long".
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FishLion
 Crazy Fangirl Posts: 861 |
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To me, this aspect speaks more to the creative health of the industry than isekai-by-volume or the success of any one series. Much like was mentioned with Jaws, spectacle can tend to trump everything else in terms of massive popularity. The spectacle anime can offer is something that is unique in all the world and that is why the spectacle driven works that aren't challenging end up attracting a lot of people. At the same time, creatives are clearly driven to make a very wide variety of genres in anime form, they make things I would never expect like the Leviathan adaptation of young adult novels. To compare to video games as the writers did with Concord, underneath the risk adverse corporate canopy there is a thriving ecosystem of riskier creations that may not pull the budget of a world wide hit yet somehow seem stronger than ever. There are more challenges than ever to bringing an idea to market and yet more people seem to be making those swings than ever before. I think that part of the creative spirit will be alive no matter how much the recent boom of whatever genre dominates the medium. I also think that because riskier productions can be a harder sell the people selling them are more likely to care more about getting niche titles greenlit. That doesn't always get you a budget, but there are still plenty of people out here trying to make sure we see interesting and unique art, so we have that going for us as fans. |
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YourNameIsMitsuha
Posts: 72 |
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As a "casual" anime watcher of a mere 6 to 10 anime per season, I'm frankly offended that they are saying Frieren wasn't worth the hype and I invite anyone to tell me objectively where it fails.
I honestly think Frieren is a weird choice of "overhyped" anime to complain about, given that it's outside the typical shonen genre that gets all the attention. Something off the beaten path getting massive hype is a good thing. In contrast, Solo Leveling is an uncompelling piece of writing with one character who develops and the rest can't I guess? Chainsaw Man was worse, with writing and directing that failed so hard my blood pressure doubles every time I think about it. Those are series that genuinely not only don't live up to the hype, but were actively bad. Even though Chainsaw Man was a steaming pile, and I had to bite my tongue every time someone in my anime club praised it or I'd have to destroy them in an argument about it (say "Ghost", I dare you), it's still good that people were excited about it. Even if the excitement for a particular anime gets hard snuffed out, it still adds to the overall passion, and you get to carry on choosing your anime with a little more wisdom. Thinking about it, hype also adds to the quality of a series overall. Is Kaiju No. 8 really that good? Not objectively. But it got overhyped and I can honestly say I not only enjoyed it more than I should have due to that hype, but I also read the manga after. Entering an anime with a feeling of excitement for something you expect to be great probably like, pumps endorphins or something scientific that make you feel better. I watch the ANN Trailer Watch Party every season religiously. Do they overhype some shows? Yeah, but again that's a good thing! I probably would not have seen Apothecary Diaries without that hype. And it doesn't stop me from being able to identify the really great shows that barely get a minute of comment, like Girls Band Cry. 0 hype, but that didn't stop me from chasing it down and I got to see the finest use of tension ever employed in anything I've ever seen. Hype is a tool, recognize it as such and use it for your own benefit. If you're worried about overhype, watch the Trailer Party, sample everything that's out there, and learn how to filter out the stuff that is objectively good along with the stuff that you'll personally enjoy even if it's not great. After a couple rough seasons starting out that way, I've really enjoyed the last couple years and I find all the diamonds in the rough that get 0 hype. Hype is good, Frieren is great. Seriously, what don't you like about it... P.S. - After calming down I finished reading the article and it seems they are worried about creativity... I dunno, wasn't Uzumaki pretty risky? I'd say it elevated anime as an artform. Sure, Demon Slayer complaints are genuine, but there's no question what ufotable is doing with animation and color is incredible. Maybe it's a "safe" series from your point of view, but which part of those gorgeous colors aren't artistic? Isn't slowing down and making the final arc a series of movies instead of forcing it into seasons the more artistic approach, giving them more time to flex their animation muscles? Aren't series like that Shikonoko Nokonoko Koshitantan (The deer one, I forget the name) different and creative enough? It may be that my tastes are too simple, but I'm satisfied that there's more than enough anime out there doing things with the medium that only anime can do. Ippon! Again might be mid as all get-out and I guarantee I'm the only person in my STATE who's seen it, but isn't great direction and writing and suspenseful judo matches worthy of being considered art, too? Isn't giving such a niche show a chance risky? I guess I'm not sure what you're waiting for anime to do that it isn't already. Let's complain about a real problem here... I'm STILL waiting for Ippon! Again to get licensed in the US on Blu Ray so I can buy it and support them for making it! Same with Uma Musame. Too many niche (unhyped) anime aren't being released on disk these days. |
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Abbot
Posts: 23 |
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This is why it’s better to hype what we enjoy instead of hate-watching because even bad publicity is still publicity.
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VirgilTB4
Subscriber Posts: 48 |
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Unfortunately CR and HiDive have joined the other streamers by following the Netflix model, i.e. keep content streaming only to keep them subscribing. The example I keep using is the fact that CR has dubbed nearly all of Laid Back Camp, 3 seasons and shorts, but there is still no physical release. Extra cost spent on dubbing but no sign that they intend to do blu-rays, something that would have never occurred in the past. And that's just one show of many this is happening to. |
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Greed1914
Posts: 5365 |
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Honestly, I'm starting to wonder what is going on there. I was doing some reorganizing last night, and saw Golden Kamuy season 1-3 on the shelf. I thought I must have somehow missed season 4's blu-ray and went to go look at the CR Store. Nope, nothing despite it being over two years when a year-ish between broadcast and home video was the norm. There are some others I've noticed like that, and I thought maybe they just did so poorly streaming that they didn't do home video, but there is just no way that is all it is. |
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Cryssoberyl
 Posts: 271 |
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Part of the problem is the culture of judging shows by their first few episodes, or often even just its first episode, and then writing things off based on what is almost always a show's weakest moment, the beginning. People make up their minds at the beginning of a season and don't often revisit those choices, and a lot of good stuff falls through the cracks.
There's a show this season called Necronomico and the Cosmic Horror Show. It had a weak first episode and, even worse, had some drama about substandard AI subs that weren't CR's fault. Absolutely everybody seemed to instantly forget the show existed - including you, ANN. Which is unfortunate, because what has unfolded is a genre-defying anime original that I would describe as...part Death Game, part Psychological Horror, part Comedy? It's got suspense, action, twists, cool characters, unique visual design, and also features a WLW relationship as one of its central tensions to be resolved. It has revealed itself to be an amazing show, and absolutely nobody is talking about it. |
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Lord Geo
Posts: 3002 Location: North Brunswick, New Jersey |
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To be fair, Sentai/Hidive doesn't simulcast nearly as much as CR does, so they don't leave as many new titles as streaming only as CR does. They definitely exist at Hidive, but it's mostly the short anime that haven't been given physical releases, like Kaginado, Chiikawa, Doomsday with My Dog, & Kendo Master Ken. In fact, I think the only "exclusives" over at Hidive that are of standard episode length & have yet to get a physical release a few years after they first appeared are only Encouragement of Climb: Next Summit (likely because it's Season 4 of a series that Crunchyroll has never released physically for the prior seasons), & Hareluya II BØY (likely because the video masters they got were very obviously sourced from LDs, and Sentai doesn't do SD-BDs anymore). That being said, what Hidive has a problem with is that there's also a bunch of old catalog titles dating back to the ADV (& other companies) days that have not been given a physical re-release in well over a decade, at least, like Azumanga Daioh, Chance Pop Session, Lunar Legend Tsukihime, Mahoromatic, Mezzo DSA, You're Under Arrest! Seasons 1-3, Yozakura Quartet, & even Battle of the Planets. However, the same is true of this for CR, and that's to an exponentially higher degree than with Hidive. |
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CreativelyFwrd
Posts: 99 |
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Does a show need discussion, though? Sometimes it's just okay to watch and enjoy something. If you enjoy it that should be all that matters. Maybe it's because I'm getting older, but I'm realizing how little I care for fandom discussion anymore outside my personal friends I've known for decades. Mainly because most fandom discussions I see these days are toxic and just bring out the worst in people and they contribute nothing of value. A second season hinges upon sales numbers, not how many likes a post on social media gets or how big a forum topic is. |
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Cryssoberyl
Posts: 271 |
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I use "talking about it" as shorthand for the number of people who demonstrably know about the show and are watching it, which is both an indicator and a generator of audience interest. The subjective quality of the content of that discourse - which to be clear I disagree with you about both in terms of its nature and its value, as I'm involved in several fantastic anime-related communities filled with good and cogent people - isn't relevant. |
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malvarez1
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I do think people are harsher on first episodes than they used to be, but with so much anime coming out nowadays, that seems like a natural response.
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Shay Guy
 Posts: 2654 |
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Late reading and commenting, but…
As a tangent, it amuses me that that’s become the standard way of shortening the site’s name, in and out of Japan, when it’s just the volitional form of “become”. (Something like a decade ago, I experimented with shortening it as SnN; I liked the idea that its users could be called “SnNers”, pronounced “sinners”. It didn’t take.)
Yeah, it feels like this whole conversation is one we’ve been having ever since that Jeffrey Katzenberg memo from 1991, where he complained about Disney moving away from a “singles and doubles” strategy. That said, a whole lot of that was about production costs, which I don’t think are nearly as variable for TV anime as for Hollywood movies. Looking at Wikipedia, budgets for Disney’s 1991 slate ranged from $3 million for Scenes from a Mall to $48 million for Billy Bathgate. (Adjusted for inflation, $48 million was about $90 million in 2019 dollars, compared to Avengers: Endgame’s budget of $356–400 million.)
A labor movement championed by Takahata is, uh, ironic given how Yoshifumi Kondo ended up.
I think this is a point where we might need one of Miles Atherton’s analyses. Are CITY and such actually popular in the West as a whole, or just among our own social media circles and such?
I mean, if people are talking about “the new Big Three” or whatever, sure. But those three manga in particular? They were genuinely exceptional in just how popular they were, and for how long. Every year from 2004 to 2010, One Piece, Naruto, and Bleach had the best placements on average in Jump. And these were all manga that could reliably break a million copies a volume, at least until Bleach fell off. And they all had round-the-calendar anime series running simultaneously for the better part of a decade. Historically, that’s an extraordinary phenomenon — even Jujutsu Kaisen only lasted six and a half years total, and its annual-average placement was only in the top 3 in 2022 and 2023.
Is the median anime fan really getting older? Most of the growth in the industry comes from young viewers, after all.
Typical it might not be, but it does run in Weekly Shonen Sunday, and the First-Class Mage Exam arc is exceptionally shonen-manga.
Funny how everyone thinks they’d destroy the other person in an argument. EDIT: It is deeply annoying that quote marks are mandatory in quote tags, but forbidden in URL tags. |
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YourNameIsMitsuha
Posts: 72 |
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You can't win an argument by being vague. I complained about dozens of faults in Chainsaw Man during it's run, and the comments were loaded with people struggling to defend their overhyped show. I made concrete points and observations, they came back with clever things like "...no" or "you're dumb". No one ever came back with a reasonable argument, which is because there is no reasonable argument against a correct observation. So yeah, specifically in this case, I feel pretty confident that I'll destroy anyone trying to defend Chainsaw Man's writing and direction decisions. You're invited. PM me if you wanna try your luck. And get specific, because vague statements like "Funny how everyone thinks they'd destroy the other person in an argument." aren't good enough. |
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