Forum - View topicThis Week in Anime - Girls in Boyland
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GATSU
Posts: 16391 |
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DB, and no mention of Caulifla and Kale? Also, no mention of Claymore? Also, no one talks about it here, but Kurohime.
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Lord Geo
Posts: 2996 Location: North Brunswick, New Jersey |
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To be fair, Shonen Jump (since that's what the primary focus of this piece is on) has always had notable female leads, if not outright female main characters, ever since the beginning, though they were mostly defined by the era their respective manga ran in. For example, Jump's first real "heroine" would be Mitsuko "Jubei" Yagyu from Go Nagai's Harenchi Gakuen, where she was considered the main heroine alongside main character Yasohachi "Boss" Yamagishi, though since that series was very focused on naughtiness she was seemingly equally caught up in fanservice (by late 60s/early 70s standards, at least) as much as she was given time to grow as a character. Same with Arashi! San-piki (the first big hit for Satoshi Ikezawa, of Circuit no Okami fam), which ran throughout the early 70s & had the leader of one of the school's gangs be a woman who was a main character, one of the three in the "san-piki" part of the title.
There was also Onna Darake by Kimio Yanagisawa, which ran from 1973 to 1975 & featured the three big sisters of the main character boy as (more or less) the characters who really helped drive the story, especially once the manga shifted from being more of a gag manga (where the main character was often bullied by his sisters) into being more of a family-focused drama (where the sisters would become the main source of income for their family, after they were left parentless after their father's death). Even Masami Kurumada, who's known mainly for his male-driven manga, made his professional debut in the mid-70s with Sukeban Arashi, which starred a female delinquent & would later be focused primarily on the rival between her & a well-to-do rich girl who transfers into her school. Even some sports manga from that time were actually more open to intergender competition, like Hole in One & Tennis Boy, which allowed the female characters to be seen as proper rivals & allies to the male leads. I know Rising Impact (Jump's later golf manga) kept the intergender aspect, but compare Tennis Boy to something like Prince of Tennis & you see that such a concept died out for their shared sport. If anything, maybe Shonen Jump became less open to female-led manga starting in the 80s, once the magazine started becoming more of a known name in the industry & felt less willing to experiment like it may have been more willing to do back in the 70s. |
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malvarez1
Posts: 2993 |
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Medaka Box is a great example of some of the content mentioned in the article; Medaka is a powerful female lead with a strong personality, but is also frequently sexualized (this gets toned down later in the series).
I wonder if A Certain Scientific Railgun counts? I know it’s a spinoff of a light novel, but it ran in a Shonen magazine and all the main leads are capable and well written female characters. |
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tintor2
 Posts: 2691 |
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Witch Watch and Blue Box are the most recent I read with notable female characters. I used to think Gintama had a strong female cast but the more time went on, the more it escalated both in the manga and Farewell Yorozuya they lost their individuality and became just a group. It didn't help most of their actions were violent and the author tried turning them into Ginsan's harem when only Tsukuyo seemed to have chemistry with the guy.
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theanimeoracle
Posts: 5 |
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Toriyama might have contributed designs and some plot ideas to Super but he didn't really write most of it so it's not good to use as an example of his attitude or viewpoint. That would be more attributed to Toyotaro and Toei. Claymore some could argue is sexual with the outfits. Some people might debate what constitutes fanservice in the first place. I myself don't believe fanservice negates good female characters but I know some people do. Speaking of which Akane-banashi might not have a lot of directly in your face nudity or anything but Akane is absolutely a cute girl with a great design and very popular with artists and doujin authors. The way this article talks about her you'd think she was homely. Her two main outfits are her school uniform which has a very short skirt and her kimono which encapsulates a traditional Japanese beauty fanservice although maybe it's lost on a lot of western viewers who don't care about that kind of thing. I'm not really sure I agree with framing that series as some kind of statement against sexuality or beauty when the character is very conventionally attractive. |
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Beatdigga
 Posts: 5145 Location: New York |
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Claymore makes it clear whatever happened to those women in universe makes them about as sexy as a stick figure. There’s literally a scene where a Claymore undresses and several bandits who were all about sexual harassment just leave in utter disgust at what they see. It’s a scene that always stuck with me for some reason, mostly because it was not afraid to put its foot down on the idea the women were made to be attractive and that the author was not afraid to kill the idea they were meant to be viewed that way. That said, I do think a lot of material that targets boys will inevitably lean towards tropes they like. Attractive women in situations that emphasize said attractive qualities. I always think there’s a balance between overdoing it and underdoing it (look at the essays decrying a lot of desexualized films with the “everyone is attractive, no one is horny” moniker) but I always think the key is that the fan service or lack thereof doesn’t negate the initial qualities that make them an interesting or cool protagonist. |
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GregoRoach
Posts: 12 |
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I don't think they were trying to say Akane isn't drawn to be attractive (she is) or that the series makes a statement against sexuality. They were comparing the way she's treated against her predecessors like Bulma and contemporaries like Momo. Calling out how they all get characterization, they all get to be attractive, but Akane hasn't been put in the same kind of fanservice scenes as Momo and Bulma and plenty of other Shonen Jump female leads.
I loved watching Dan da Dan, Akane-Banashi, and Dragon Ball but I definitely gave my screen the side-eye at some of the choices made with Momo. |
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OpenYourEels4TheNextFeels
Posts: 186 |
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Not sure why Chris would say Fuuko is "ostensibly cool". She is cool. She is the coolest female leads in Jump history (though female leads from currently running series like Akane may have the potential to one day unseat her), and arguably one of the coolest leads in general. Has he just only heard of what happen at the beginning of the series and doesn't know anything that happens later? |
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GATS2
Posts: 15 |
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Also forgot to include Cat's Eye. Plus, American comic, but since there's a manga, Witchblade. Finally, seinen, not shonen, and I wish the manga was licensed, but Devilman Lady.
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prime_pm
 Posts: 2488 Location: Your Mother's Bedroom |
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I had a female coworker and aspiring writer tell me that only women should write for the POV of female characters, otherwise it is not authentic. While I understood where she was coming from on this, didn't this also feel rather limiting from a creative standpoint?
I don't know anymore. I mean, I've been struggling with my own writing for years so who am I to say anything? |
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Ermat_46
Posts: 786 Location: Philippines |
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That viewpoint is limiting, not to mention just flat out wrong. Also, authenticity in fiction doesn't really mean anything nowadays when people in real world act worse than cartoon villains. |
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Tamer Sakura
Posts: 41 |
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The whole "X can only write X characters" has never been a serious critique because some of the greatest media ever created was made by people with different backgrounds from the character or story. In this case some of the most popular and iconic female characters ever made were created by men and I'm not even limiting that claim to manga and anime here but films like Alien or TV shows like Buffy. And just to get ahead of the inevitable reversal the same is also true where female authors have made some of the most popular and iconic male characters like Harry Potter or Demon Slayer. The true irony in this discussion is always the fact the most popular shounen with female readers are the ones that have male leads and they're specifically watching it for the male characters. Imagine telling someone with a straight face Haikyu or Prince of Tennis needed more female characters or even a female lead to appeal to women. Obviously those would be absurd claims to make and a prime example of missing the forest for the trees. I think the ultimate issue is people just can't stand the idea that a piece of media might simply not be for them and rather than moving on and finding something else to read they'd rather complain about it and try to force an author to change it. Thankfully that almost never works when it comes to manga but sometimes it unfortunately does like what happened with Go for It, Nakamura!'s mangaka. Ironically that was because she sexualized the male characters in her series aimed at girls so the reverse does happen as well it would seem. |
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Pablo Pierna
Posts: 6 Location: Mexico |
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The discussion is about female protagonists who are not sexualized. Kale and Caulifla both show off their midriffs and legs in addition to not being the protagonists. Cat's Eye, Witchblade, and Devilman Lady all have sexy protagonists who in some cases use their sexuality to their advantage. I think the idea that a female character can't be good if she's sexy or there's fanservice is pretty BS but that's just my 2 pesos. |
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FinalVentCard
ANN Reviewer
 Posts: 921 |
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Kurohime is in a weird position because it started in WSJ, but IIRC the mangaka took their ball and went home. So WSJ has largely unpersoned that manga. Also, it takes a bit for Kurohime herself to actually become the protagonist; a good chunk of the series is Zero babysitting Kurohime in her cursed form (a kid) before she bails him out of problems.
The issue isn't that protagonists can't be good if they're sexy and more about female characters being allowed to be fully-rounded. Witchblade is a good example, because a good chunk of that series is about Masane trying to regain and maintain custody of her daughter (besides the crotch-shots). The protagonists of Cat's Eye are attractive, but the series is also about their collective efforts in regaining their father's paintings--and locating their father. Even Devilman Lady basically puts a woman through the rigors of Devilman. There's a line between characters like that, where they're allowed interiority and something like Bakuman where the women exist to fawn over the men because "men have dreams that women can't understand," or whatever the line was. Heck, Dress-Up Darling is right over there: Marin is the protagonist and she's a bombshell, but part of why MDUD works is because we get to see how much Marin is head-over-heels for Gojo, and not just vice-versa. Both Gojo and Marin have equally-rich inner lives: Gojo with his passion for doll-making and costume making, wanting his costumes to bring out the best in Marin, and Marin with her love of cosplay and love of Gojo for how supportive, accepting and nurturing he is. Araki also deserves credit even further in JoJo because even when the series was starting out, he tried his hardest to make Lisa-Lisa a main character in Battle Tendency. And even if it didn't take (likely through editorial mandate), Lisa-Lisa makes a presence in the series and is all but a member of the main trio. There's a reason why Araki's renewed artwork for the series featured her along with Joseph and Caesar (albeit in his new art style, so they all look like teenagers, but that's also the point). And yeah, Lisa-Lisa was a bombshell, even Joseph was macking on her--but she's also a genuine hamon master in ways even Joseph couldn't even imagine, hampered only by editorial say-so. The point is more like how back in the day, the only way to get a shonen manga starring a woman published would be if it was like Cutie Honey or Kekko Kamen. And we like Kekko Kamen! But now we can have stuff that doesn't have to be Kekko Kamen. It's a very groovy time. |
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Maciste
 Posts: 155 |
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I honestly never thought about "Oh, this has to be a man or a woman or whaver" as long as the character is well written.
In recent media (looking at you Hollywood) there's is this trope of "gir boss" prevalent. In general, those female heroines are very shallow, one-dimensional and are fully developed right from the start which makes them boring to watch. Not to say it's always the case, but it's noticeable. Somehow, for me, it's okay in Anime. Maybe call me a hypocrite, but it's kind of different. I don't mind. I also don't mind fanservice as long as it is tasteful and not flatout crazy (High School of the Dead anyone?). A woman showing her figure in a bikini? Sure. Shoving her crotch up the viewers nose? Nah. And I certainly don't watch Ecchi shows. I'm not "gooning" as the cool kids say these days. About DB Super and Caulifla/Kale: More women joining the fighting are welcome, but those particular examples are not done well. Remember what kind of big deal it was to become a SSJ and how it was one of the best parts of DB? Those two girls just ask about "How to become a SSJ?", Goku explains and ZACK, they just are. I'm not kidding. No arc, no tragedy, nothing. Android 18 is still the best. |
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