Forum - View topicIs Transformers (the original) really an Anime?
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Xyne
 Posts: 18 Location: Texas |
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I've been wondering, Is the original Transformers an anime, I mean I always see it listed with anime but I could have sworn that when I saw the movie that there weren't any Japanese names for the atrwork.
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Tenchi
 Posts: 4663 Location: Ottawa... now I'm an ex-Anglo Montrealer. |
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It's one of those borderline cases: it was scripted by Americans for American television, but the actual animation work was done by Toei in Japan.
But, if you call that "anime", you'd have to call other Toei-animated Marvel/Sunbow productions like G.I. Joe, Jem, My Little Pony and Friends and even Muppet Babies "anime" too, even if they weren't done for Japan. |
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Ken Hayashi
 Posts: 752 Location: Singapore |
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It's not an anime. In the past, lots of cartoons were animated in Japan but they were not scripted for the Japanese market. I think during those days, only Disney used American animators.
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Steventheeunuch
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Actually, Toei was occasionally used for animation assistance, much like WB using Sunrise occasionally for episodes of the Batman: The Animated Series. A majority of the work was done by Sunbow, marvel's studio, in conjuction with Hasbro and Takara. Take a look at the credits, even, A majority of the production work, such as storyboards, art direction, etc, are credited to people with English names. This isn't "Oh well if they had japanese names, it'd be seen as an inferior product" because the credits for the Japanese broadcast had the same names in them. It was not produced by the Japanese (aside from marketting) nor was it aimed at Japan primarily, so it is not Anime. End of story. |
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the_soultaker
 Posts: 685 |
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I wouldn't go as far as calling Transformers Anime, but the 1986 Movie had that Anime-esque feel to it. Besides the obvious toei animation,there is a good deal of violence and profanity used for dramatic purposes and one poingnant/pathos scene where Optimus prime "bites it". And who could forget the chessy glam rock soundtrack? Transformers the movie should also be credited for setting today's standard in American animation.
This one easily made it into my DVD collection. |
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Steventheeunuch
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Are you saying that violence and profanity (which was coincidentally penned by Americans) defines an "anime" style?
Once again, there was production assistance from Toei, but a bulk of the work was handled by Sunbow |
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Akumajou
Posts: 16 |
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I think we can call the entire season 1 and 2 and post movie US seasons "Anime-esque" even if it did not have "profanity" because the show featured plenty of story elements used in other Japanese shows of the time (80s & 70s) minus the Japan setting. Just compare Transformers to previous "American made/produced" animated shows and even though the show is a glorified extended 24 minute toy commercial you will have a hard time comparing it to other "American made/produced" shows. I feel that the reason for this is the use of Marvel Comics writers combined with a Japanese anime company like Toei is just like how "manga to anime" anime series are produced, something that is rarely or not done at all in US animation. One of the best previous American made/produced show that combined an animation company and a comic book company to make a product was the Marvel & Hanna Barbera Fantastic Four tv show of the 60s, that show even emulated Jack Kirby's classic artwork and retold the original comic book story panel for panel. Very similar to how Dragon Ball, Sailor Moon, etc were produced. It seems like for US companies its a lost art specially when you look at the garbage follow ups of the animated Fantastic Four of the 70s, 80s and 90s. I guess there could have been ego problems with Hanna Barbera thinking that it was them who made FF great and they went on to make Bird Man, and all those horrible super hero shows they made, even the one that copied Jack Kirby's art work. I don't think that Anime is ever about "violence and profanity used for dramatic purposes and one poingnant/pathos scenes where characters die and cheesy or good music soundtracks since that really goes with the culture. Japan manga writers never had to worry about the Federaly Republican imposed Comics Code Authority and Japanese anime studios never had to worry about Disney having a cultural monopoly on animated anything and parents who grew up on Disney imposing that if Spoilers for Disney's Bambi ahead (just in case) Bambi gets killed no kids should ever watch that on an american animated tv show. There is currently too much ego tripping for US anime shows to ever pair up with Japanese anime shows because everyone here is all about the money and taking credit and not working together to make a great series. That ego tripping even affected the Pokemon tv show with the guy or group that wrote/sang the opening song suing whomever it was (Nintendo or 4Kids) because they felt that their song was worth more than the show specially when no one knew at the time that the show would have been as popular as it was for its time.
I believe that is completely false considering how the follow up show was treated. Beast Wars Transformers was heavily critisized for having the word "Wars" in its title, for being too violent even if it did not have human characters, a well endowed female character, for having a continuingly evolving comic book style story where you have to remember what a character did instead of self contained episodes where you don't use your brain. That show was American/Canadian made/produced and had some comic book writers writing a couple of shows and worst of all the show was heavily critisized by American Transformer fans for using CGi and making the Optimus Primal character a transforming monkey/gorilla. I remember so many Trans fans being offended at how the character was a simian considering how simians are definetly the most similar to humans as opposed to a wild lion. Worst of all the follow up show that was made to please US censors of the time, Beast Machines was a politically correct censor's wet dream that was made only so that the show would be aired at a more favorable Saturday near noon morning time slot as opposed to the castrated 6 am time slot Beast Wars enjoyed. Its a shame that even Cartoon Network never bothered to air the complete 3 seasons on Toonami (at the time) although they did air some eps of the last season, people were confused as to what was going on and once they took the show off that kills the chances of the show being seen by the same audience that re-made Robotech, DBZ, Thundercats, etc popular again. Also for the 80s Gi-Joe tv show to be aired on CN, it had to be aired after 12 midnight and so far the Gen 1 Transformers show has not aired on CN, I guess the censors have something to do with it. That or CN asking too much money to air Gi-Joe or even Transformers knowing full well how much of a major hit the shows would become again. PS: Even classic Fimlation He-Man/She-Ra has not aired at a prime time slot ever again. |
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the_soultaker
Posts: 685 |
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To answer that question; No! but i tend to make obvious comparisions between Anime (which genre are more risktaking than the standard American animation which, for the most part is often aimed for the much younger generation.)*sigh* And once again when i state 'violence and profanity" it does not nessecaraly define an Anime style, but such traits have been used (while telling a story) far more than American animation. Ron Friedman who wrote the script for the Transformers movie as well as G.I. Joe took a chance on alienating said Movies' target audiance by adding violence,a profane S-bomb and of course the death of a Major character. this is usually unheard of in American animation, but i have seen plenty of it in Anime. Note: this is not another "why Anime is better than American cartoons thread" so relax. I'm just stating the obvious differences.
I strongly disagree with your comment about the 1995 Fantastic Four being Garbage (well maybe the 1994 season anyway) the stories followed the classic lee/Kirby stories of the FF's golden era, not to mention the voice actors were on top of their game. But i'm sure that you see different, oh well. |
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the_soultaker
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To answer that question; No! but i tend to make obvious comparisions between Anime (which genre are more risktaking than the standard American animation which, for the most part is often aimed for the much younger generation.)*sigh* And once again when i state 'violence and profanity" it does not nessecaraly define an Anime style, but such traits have been used (while telling a story) far more than American animation. Ron Friedman who wrote the script for the Transformers movie as well as G.I. Joe took a chance on alienating said Movies' target audiance by adding violence,a profane S-bomb and of course the death of a Major character. this is usually unheard of in American animation, but i have seen plenty of it in Anime. Note: this is not another "why Anime is better than American cartoons thread" so relax. I'm just stating the obvious differences.
I strongly disagree with your comment about the 1995 Fantastic Four being Garbage (well maybe the 1994 season anyway) the stories followed the classic lee/Kirby stories of the FF's golden era, not to mention the voice actors were on top of their game. But i'm sure that you see different, oh well. |
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Akumajou
Posts: 16 |
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Although it was not exactly profane (depending on who interprets it) there used to be a time back in the 80s and early 90s when American animated shows would have characters saying things like "blast" where one can assume a "damn" or curse would be and the tv version of Galvatron often spoke of death, as in would you like to know death, lets bring them death and on and on. Old Bugs Bunny cartoons also mentioned the word "damn" on some occasions and the level of violence in those Loony Toons cartoons was way off the richter scale with characters holding a gun to their heads, taking a knife to another's neck, etc. Beast Wars featured alot of decapitations, dismemberments, guns, point blank swiss cheese shootouts, a pyro-maniac character called Inferno, sexual gawking and even had its own dictionary for curse word terms like "slag" among many of the reasons that show was treated to a 6 am only time slot (fewer viewers than 4 or 5 pm or even sat morning) and I am still not sure why you think that Beast Wars does not count since it was a US/Canadian company collaboration and both countries are in the North part of the American Continent. As for violence elsewhere, how about in Disney with Donald Duck on many occasions holding a knife as in about to stab someone, choking some character, saying "Sieg-Hail Hitler" in a couple of episodes that questionably were about how Nazi Germany was supposed to be evil. Basically American animators have done violence with profanity in the past in American Animation, however the US culture has become much more conservative since the very late 40s all the way to today to notice how much more conservative it has gotten to the ridiculous levels of conservatism that were reached in the late 90s early 2000s, thats why I said that 80s Gi-Joe has not aired in a prime time slot like 3 to 4 to 5 to 6 PM or saturday mornings when it was re-aired in Cartoon Network. On that note I wonder if MTV was forced to air TRL at 6AM would it still be widely watched. Remember that back in the day (if you lived back then) there was no Cartoon Network and Transformers, Rainbow Brite, He-Man/She-Ra and Gi-Joe ammong others were aired after 3PM when most kids got back home from school hence a Sinfeld type of critical advertising time for the sponsors. You should also watch some of the garbage that CN/Hanna Barbera has done recently (late 90s early 2000) like Cow & Chicken, I Baboon, Dexter's Lab, Johnny Bravo, etc that feature alot of violence, sexual content and in some cases profanity in some forms. BTW I don't consider Gi_joe Extreme since I have not seen it but I have seen Star Ship Troopers Chronicles the CGI animated tv show that got the same treatment as Beast Wars, if you ever get to watch that show it might remind you of watching something like Robotech in the 80s with its seemingly violent and very adult content.
Its amazing how a PG rated (non PG-13) for its time movie like the Goonies featured the use of the S-Bomb and no one had a problem with that movie aimed at kids, Disney's Bambi killed the name sake main character, Alice in Wonderland features amazing levels of violence including a character that chases another with a big knife and a face filled with mad rage, Lion King featured alot of bloody violence, Toy Story featured a kid who violently tortured toys and even the Incredibles had some violence. SPOILERs for Transformers the movie ahead. And as for the "the death of a Major character" you can blame bad uninspired writing to introduce the next great toy leader for alienating kids in the case of Transformers introducing Hot Rod into Rodimus Prime specially when it was that same character that is to blame for killing/replacing the previous toy leader Optimus. I remember and I believe you can still find alot of people who will tell you how they could have killed Optimus and introduced Hot-Rodimus Prime better and saved the character from becoming a brooding and weak leader in the following season. Even the writters did not bother to save Rodimus by making him more of a ass-kicking Optimus like character. Compared to Beast Wars toy leader the only problem some people had (not me) was that they made him a transforming monkey apparently those people don't know how organized and intelligent monkeys and gorillas are compared to other animals. As for the baddly written Transformers the movie and many kids having a problem with it back then alot of us back then and still to this day had a major problem with how it introduced way too much toy characters and changed the setting to the year 2005. Worse yet it is that bad writting that really makes the movie more of a self contained "Simpsons" like episode that totally ignores the previous episodes where many main characters faced near death prior to the movie and survived, not to mention many characters received more damage than any character in the movie except for StarScream and survived. I remember being 11 years old and arguing with classmates 8 to 12 years old) about how it just did not make any sense that Optimus Prime or any other characters (again minus Starscream) could have died from such cheap unexplained laser blasts, how annoying it was that it was set in 2005, how Daniel was so incredibly annoying, how Hot Rod was to blame, how cheap the final battle was and recently how the movie seems more like an insult to the then "dumb consumer target viewers" since franchise was treated as nothing more than an extended toy commercial and amazingly most of those fans collect the toys more than they watch the series. Although I know alot of people who loved or liked Star Scream, his death made sense because he was pratically vaporized because it was implied that Unicron made Megatron much more powerfull in the Galvatron body but later Ultra Magnus gets totally dismembered and he is put back together again like a slapped together toy making kids wonder why the hell no one thought of having the Junkions repair the killed characters. Maybe if the writters would have paid closer attention to everything that went on in the first and second seasons, never set it in 2005 leaving 20 years of what happened in between, explained the appearance of the new characters better, gave Megatron and Optimus Prime a more proper major battle to the last one standing reguardless of cheating and no Hot Rod interference, and made the final Rodimus vs Galvatron battle at least as long as the Optimus vs Megatron and not have that stupid happy ending and even if it still was set in 2005, kids in 1985 would have had closure and would have been talking about how Optimus vs Mega final battle was awesome and how Rodimus vs Galvy was equally as good. As for the Gi-Joe movie killing Duke and turning Cobra Commander into a snake, I wish we had a time machine or better yet ask anyone who watched it back then and even an 8 year old kid of 1985 would tell you how much hog-wash-poppycock it was to have CC have human eyes and features in the tv series and all of a sudden insult the kid's intelligence by saying he really had snake skin all along, Serpentor although cool looking was just not as eloquent a terrorist as CC was, then as for Duke, well his death was just kind of corny considering how again during the tv series there is constant gun fights and no one ever gets shot, I remember talking about this back then with others arguing how they must be using laser stun guns because it just did not make sense to have guns in the show. Then again nowadays I look at the show as a Republican sponsored US Army recruitment program tool designed to tell kids how cool it is to fight terrorists with guns and always win without getting a scratch.
Well you are quoting animated shows that have their origins in comic books that in the mid to late 80s started to get a bit more realistic in telling more adult stories as a way of reinventing the campy-joke versions of prior years. Jack Kirby's New Gods characters like Dark Seid, etc were made as a way for him to pimp smack the Comics Code Authority that censored comics for over 40 years and was basically saying that comic books are only read by preteen kids. Those written and drawn works by him are of a level that can be compared to the Dragon Ball, Rurouni Kenshin and Getter Robo mangas with its violent content and complex character stories. Basically any of those animated stories were inspired by the comic book that everyone was talking about, that is why they were good, however it was not an accurate retelling of the original story right down to the art work, something those shows could have had, better and different art instead of the same cookie cutter art.
Point taken in that you don't view it as garbage, I feel it is because although the stories were trying to be faithfull to the classic works and the VAs tried or did a great job the art used in the animation was an insult to the original comic book art. If you ever get to see the 1960s FF, you could take the comic that the story was based on and compare panel for panel with the only difference being that the animation is animated, something that alot of Japanese Manga to Anime programs share including the Dragon Ball, Rurouni Kenshin and I believe Card Captor Sakura to name just a few. Even remake or updates of old Japanese manga to Anime series pay homage to the old classic artwork if the show is being revisited like Mighty Atom aka Astroboy, or completely try to update in a good way the art like in Shin Getter Robo vs Getter Robo G and MazinKaizer OVAs Sorry for the long post but if you reply don't quote me just reply and I'll know what we are talking about and I do hope you understand where I am coming from. |
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Akumajou
Posts: 16 |
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oops double post
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the_soultaker
Posts: 685 |
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Whoa man!
 What were you writting a novel here? lol
I can't go through the trouble posting your recent quotes, but your points is valid. However in terms of following the Transformers mythology, i for one still don't count Beast Wars as a successor whatsoever to the Transformers franchise. (Sentient robots who transform into prehistoric animals?) The Transformers i have known as a kid back in da days (Circa 1984+) were predominetley based in a modern or futuristic setting. Sure it (Beast Wars) was a legitimate Transformers release,but just like with Alien 3 where spoiler[the protagonist Ripley bites the dust while being impregnated by an Alien.]  Me and my friends just "wiped" it out from our minds,hence the dis-acknowledge. 
Now those i would love to add to my dvd collection (especially since i trashed all my VHS cassettes) I don't hate on American animation, but i wish they would get out of this "cartoons is just for kids" FCC BS and take more chances. And not just with risque humor,violence and adult content as some would belive.
Now as for The post Movie transformers series, my gripes were that; A. the animation in comparison to the 85 series had that "watered-down" feeling and B. "Starscream's Ghost"?? Nuff said! Now onto GIJoe the Movie: Great animation (especially the killa opening sequence) but flawed plot and storyline. The Cobra-La thing killed it entirely and i was very disapointed with CC's transformation into a snake. although i found Golobulus to be fascinating, (great voiceover by Burgess Meredith) The whole Cobra-la origin seemed pushed onto the writers at the last minute. They shouldv'e just stuck with Larry Hama's Comic Mythology IMO. Anyway, spoiler[Good post,Good debate.] |
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Akumajou
Posts: 16 |
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Ok although I was not really thinking of doing an essay, I had no other choice but I hope you enjoyed reading it since I made paragraphs. As for Beast Wars Transformers and you not accepting it because of your reasons, it really sounds like your real reason is nostalgia for not accepting the series. I personally think this is kind of sad because that is the same reason, along with the good guy being a monkey/gorilla that alot of Transformers fans chose to ignore BW still to this day and the unfortunate choice of Cartoon Network for not re-airing the complete series to give the series a chance to get a different audience or at least some appreciation. BW Transformers is also available in DVD complete with seasons 1, 2 and 3 and I would like to recommend that you at least give the series a try because of the following reasons, although the show starts out as a toy commercial, the limited budget and CGI models being expesive (back in 1996) forced fewer toy characters to be introduced thereby allowing the writers and guest comic book writers to sneak things like character development, a complex plot with ramifications, dramatic character departures, John Woo style gun play and alot more things that can and did make alot of PTA groups censor crazy. To me BW Trans evolution is alot like the legend of Japan's Mobile Suit Gundam aired in 1979, prior to that it was the sponsors that dictated that the writers/producers write shows that would showcase the toy tie ins (mostly the good guy figure while the monsters got ignored) basically alot of Japanese writers/producers were frustrated that sponsors held more creative control than they did and this led to alot of cookie cutter (but great, good of course) Super Robot shows with a pretty standard formula where the enemy was always evil, the good guy was always good and the son of the robot designer, etc. Even though Tomino was forced by the sponsors to showcase toy tie in products, he was also forced to color the Gundam in the standard super robot colors of red, white, blue and maybe some yellow, forced to make monster of the week episodes, he remain steadfast and sneaked a complex story dealing with subject matter that at the time angered the sponsors and the audience that was "used to the standard formula" chose to ignore it resulting in the original 52 episodes being cancelled around ep 30-something and the producers are said to have begged on their knees to be able to wrap up the story and got 43 eps instead. Then the series was aired as a rerun at a different time slot (no idea what it was) and a phenomenon was born thanks to that different audience that was able to understand the series leading to something that had never happened before, revolutionary anime fans convening and declaring a "New Anime Century", the Real Robot series was a genre, anime grew and the rest is history. Now imagine if the show was never aired again or the sponsors would not allow a wrap up, SD Macross would not exist and the US would never have gotten Robotech because it would not exist, Neon Genesis Evangelion would not exist, alot of the mature stories dealing with complex issues would also not exist, obviouly no Gundam series would exist leading to no plastic models, the anime culture as we know it would not exist in Japan because the anime would have remained under the control of sponsors who view the series as 24 minute formulaic toy commercials to sell merchandise meaning that unless the anime had a toy tie in product, it would not be approved or funded to be made. Finally if you can buy the original "sentient robots who transform into cars" and then if you can buy the shift to 2005 in the movie (all really are toy commercials) then the prehistoric setting should make sense if you give it a chance, after all BW Trans is more like a sci-fi, Star Trekkie version of of Transformers mixed with Gilligan's Isle as weird as that sounds.
When I mentioned those CN shows I was trying to point out how they get away with what is considered "murder" is it is aired in a series considered to be anime or Japanese made.
I don't think it was the FCC, it seems to me that it was more like Disney making sure that they are the only source/standard in american animation followed by the not as popular Loony Toons characters and all the parent groups who raise their kids to be Disney kids.
As you can see, the show was treated as a toy commercial and fans did not have the internet to flame Hasbro/Sunbow, etc.
In Gi-Joe the story was never good or as credible as sentient robots who transform into cars. That is not to say that I did not like Gi-Joe because I did and I really preffer the Terrorist Organization Cobra over the lame Joes but really, all those guns and it takes a movie for someone to get hurt? even kids back then voiced those opinions.
I agree however the only problem with that is that Larry Hama's comic stories were made mostly after 1985 and the comics really shined (like the Transformers comic) when it was years after the series had been cancelled and the writters were allowed to wrap up stories how they felt fit.
I consider it as more of a conversation since I know I cannot change your mind about how you see BW Trans but I really felt like bringing up those long points because there really is no other place to talk about them, if you ever go to the Transformers forum boards at other sites, all they talk about is the toys, a bunch of brainwashed zombies to me. |
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Emerje
 Posts: 7549 Location: Maine |
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Geez, I had written a nice long post in responce to some of the stuff said yesterday, but with the forum being so glitchy it seems to have deleted itself. Thankfully, I anticipated the problems and saved it as follows.
Those transformers fans are the minority. They're the ones that wear T-shirts that read "Truk not Munky" a sure sign of their intelligence. Most Transformers fans regard the series as cutting edge, perhaps the best Transformers series made with regards to story and toys. Also, Once they realized that Primal wasn't Prime they fully excepted the idea of him being a gorilla, hell they couldn't get enough of it, the collectors conventions have done a few repaints of the Primal figures as exclusives and incorporated them into their exclusive comics.
Which would later be well received in Beast Wars II, but as Lio Convoy, not an upgrade of their Primal (aka Convoy, aka Beast Convoy in Robotmasters). Even the Japanese still thought after their version of Primal which sparked a meeting between the two in the movie special and a return in Robotmasters.
Wrong, infact Beast Machines would prove much more controversial. It turned up at a reasonable time on FoxKids because Beast Wars was later taken out of syndication and got a regular spot on FoxKids Saturday mornings and Weekday afternoons. Censors didn't care. Hasbro then decided that they wanted to try something new and exciting with Beast Wars, however they didn't want to pay as much for it. What ended up happening was Hasbro told Mainframe they wanted to split their Beast Wars budget between two shows, Beast Machines and Action Man (to compete with Mattel's CGI Max Steel). In a half assed attempt to get things done quick Hasbro handed concept art for Beast Machines over to Mainframe, but did little consulting through the animation process. Hasbro then would go on to make their characters their way in toy form while Mainframe was left to make the characters their way in CGI form. The end results didn't match up, the toys only vaguely resembled the CGI characters. Then the show airs, replacing Beast Wars and the fans are greatly underwhelmed. The show is full of religious overtones, guns have been traded in for energy blasts, characters now need to meditate in order to transform, and unique characters have been replaced by armies of drones due to the Mainframe cutbacks requireing them to reuse CGI models as a shortcut. Hasbro trudges through and sees the series through. The concept of Cybertron once being organic only helps to drive fans away more. By the end Hasbro isn't sure what the future of Transformers will be since their fanbase has begun to dwindle after such strong performance from Beast Wars. They spead up the ending of Beast Wars and cancled a fourth season just so they could do Beast Machines, and it faled. Hasbro doesn't make imediate plans for a new series and instead imports Takara's Car Robots series and releases it as Robots in Disguise, right back on Fox Kids. The reaction to the show is good, but the reaction to vehicle transformer toys again is even stronger causing them to rethink their plans for transformers for the next 3 series (Armada, Energon, and Cybertron). There was nothing about Beast Machines that was made to please censors. Religious overtones in a PC time and mass genocide aren't exactly a censors wet dream. The show turned out the way it did because Mainframe had less to work with so the less things happend the cheaper it was to animate. Rather than filling the show with action like Beast Wars they had to resort to a much more story driven show.
I don't recall it being on Cartoon Network, but if it was it was probably because Fox became the exclusive distributer outside of syndication. Hasbro even put "Watch it on Fox Kids" (or something to that effect) stickers on the package and a series of Fox Kids themed repaints.
Three things. Censors had nothing to do with the GI Joe timeslot, it was as kid friendly as any other show on Toonami. No one ever dies, guns fire lasers, and it was a toy show. Second, if the license really cost that much they would have placed it at a more prominent time slot, instead they showed at 1am because they were only doing it for adult nostalgics. Also, Transformers G1 was likely never picked up because they really had no reason to, they didn't think it would be popular with the kids and box sets had already been released for the series (something that hadn't started yet with GI Joe) so there really wasn't any need for them to do it.
Which was for the best since they kinda sucked.
As for the GI Joe movie, keep in mind that other than some of the Cobra-La guys, they still kept from killing anyone in the final version. Even though Duke was ment to die from his attack by Serpentor, they wrote him into a coma which he came out of (so they said) at the end. Oh, and Starscream's ghost was probably the best thing to come out of the movie. It gave an excuse for him to come back in the TV series and cause trouble, they got to use him again in Beast Wars when his spark followed them back through time, and Beast Wars even explained the properties of his indestructible spark which they had attempted to copy resulting in the creation of Protoform X, aka Rampage, who's spark is constantly being tortured by Megatron to keep him obedient. Also, some of the issues with the TF movie could be explained by the cutting room floor. From what I remember Optimus' death had originally something to do with Dirge or someone holding him or something along those lines. And the reason why they could put Ultra Magnus back together was because originally he wasn't being shot at, but rather he was tied up to the Sweeps who pulled him into different directions, however they edited that into him being shot into pieces. Unfortunatly, just like the final product would lead us to believe that Duke didn't die in the GI Joe movie, we're lead to believe that things happened the way we saw them in the Transformers movie. Emerje |
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areaseven
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 1487 Location: Makati, Philippines |
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Why is Transformers Battlestars listed in the Anime Encyclopedia if it was never animated? Regardless of answer, the entry should be deleted ASAP.
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