Forum - View topicComics publishers teamup with FBI, destroy piracy site
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Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
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http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2010/05/publishers-get-together-to-beat-down-pirates/
Pretty interesting stuff- I hope that the larger manga publishers are looking at stuff like this. I imagine the coalition of bigger comics publishers helped a ton of smaller ones who couldn't afford to be part of the action in getting this website off the net. Here's the PR from the law firm- http://www.kattenlaw.com/publications/detail.aspx?pub=dde17eea-b874-4f82-9e29-8c5b26e92d5f I hope Manga publishers consider giving this a try- surely VIZ, Yen Press and Tokyopop are large enough to do something similar to the manga sites of this ilk. Perhaps manga publishers should contact this law firm, and get something DONE. I imagine this site might of included some manga content or would of eventually included some [no idea what was on it, as it's now gone forever], so Marvel/DH/DC/Bongo did them a favour. |
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RestLessone
 Posts: 1426 Location: New York |
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That's pretty interesting. I'd support companies doing this--honestly, the chance of them coming after small sites with unlicensed series is slim. People might still complain about not being able to "keep up", but I rather have them wait than see sales decline because others are irresponsible. I agree that VIZ, Yen Press, and Tokyopop could probably do enough, and Dark Horse did help out with that main case. Del Rey might jump on, and both YP and Del Rey are imprints of larger publishing houses. Even smaller companies who couldn't afford to be involved would end up be affected positively. In the end, teaming up might be the best way for things to improve for all of them.
Mainly, I think they should target manga aggregator sites. Get those and a bunch of people won't even know what to do, other than jump on Wikipedia and find out who publishes it in English (or give up entirely). Smaller sites require downloading (one of the reasons people like aggregators) and in general you aren't going to find many with the "big" series already licensed. The ones with the "big" titles are often scanlating the other "big" titles as well (such as Shonen Jump series and whatnot), so they could be targets. If only, if only...But maybe this will inspire them. Dark Horse seems willing enough. |
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Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
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http://twitter.com/yenpress I'd say YenPress noticed.... no idea if it means anything though. Most of the publishers listed either own the rights outright, or act on the part of their creatorowned titles on issues like this. Though DH and Bongo both deal in licensed titles for the most part, so I imagine this approach could work for manga publishers. It appears this might of taken sometime, but I think it could be worth it for manga publishers to do something similar, if they aren't already.
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-Wang-
Posts: 29 |
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Sounds like these guys were just asking for it.
Unlicensed series is still one of those interesting gray areas, for stories that have no viable commercial potential in the states, it's easy, I'd think hell would freeze over before America would go after that. On things that do have obvious commercial potential, I would love to see a study on how it affects sales (if one isn't out already). |
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Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
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Except most of these sites are also hosting a bajillion licensed series, scans of actual licensed copies that aren't "scanlations" in any sense, and even some OEL titles that were created in english [a big problem for the cancelled X-men Misfits]. If you listen to the ANNCast Verticals' Ed did recently, they give a very specific, exact example with what happened when their translation of Black Jack got scanned and released online without their permission. |
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-Wang-
Posts: 29 |
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Right, obviously if the site also carried products processed/produced domestically, that's a totally different story.
But take a site that does it "by the books", there isn't much of a point (or incentive for that matter) for the US government to do anything about it. |
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ArsenicSteel
 Posts: 2370 |
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Except there are manga scanalations sites of this ilk. Most scan sites are intended to host only unlicensed manga and the licensed manga gets taken done diligently per request of the licensor.
The FBI isn't even that entangled with copy right protection but have been used at tools in this matter, as this does passably fall into their jurisdiction. The FBI has no legal entanglement with manga or material there is not licensed under US law. Telling the FBI to bust down the doors of some website that may or may not be bound to US laws is a tad ignorant and zealous. The licensor of any manga on scan sites needs to just continue to distribute C&D orders to that content is removed, if not then they can resort to other legal means not handing off their dilemma to another organization. |
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OLady
Posts: 163 Location: Texas |
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The law firm is large and expensive. It would take a consortium of publishers to hire them. The site that was taken down was wholly confined in the US--materials and server. Material originating in another country, sometimes by way of a third country, makes it difficult to say who has the legal right, and therefore responsibility to pay, to stop the piracy of the material. What about scans produced and gathered in other countries? At what point do the benefits outweigh the costs, assuming that the responsibility can be fixed?
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Mushi-Man
 Posts: 1537 Location: KCMO |
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I don't see this affecting the manga industry much. Honestly I doubt we'll see manga companies going out of their way to do stuff like this any time soon. We can't compare the comic book industry and the manga industry like their one in the same. The truth is in every industry there are unspoken rules that the companies try to adhere to.
In the comic book world the companies can get away with doing quite a bit more. Maybe it's because the comic book industry is more established and has a large span, but the truth is these companies do business quite a bit differently. The comic book companies can do this type of thing because they have much more money and resources to spend of these types of things. Also the fans will respond to this incident quite differently. The manga industry, by contrast, can't quite do large scale take downs like this. For starters it is an unspoken rule that companies don't bring up law suites against scans (honestly when was the last time they did something like that). Also manga companies just don't have to time or money to handle all of the scan groups out there that deal with their property besides just sending letters to them asking for their cooperation. And think of what the mindless fanbase response will be to something like popular manga scan sites being shut down. Do you really think that the fans will just be ok with it? Of course not, allot of people would start kicking and screaming because their toy was taken away. Sadly allot of anime and manga fans think of scans as a given right rather than a privilege. And I'm not just saying this because I use scans myself, but just look at the reality of the current anime fanbase. There are people out there that sometimes seem to be bigger fans of the scan groups rather than the anime itself. Like somehow these scan groups are modern day robin hoods saving the average fan from the "over priced" dvds and manga. The truth is most comic fans don't complain that much when it comes to prices (admit-ably the prices of comics is considerably lower) so getting this website taken away is, for the majority of the comic fans, an inconvenience at the most. With that said I do commend these companies for banning together for a common cause. They aren't evil companies that are getting greedy, just people trying to make sure they get the money they deserve. |
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OLady
Posts: 163 Location: Texas |
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MushiMan, as times get harder in the manga industry, I would not be surprised if "unspoken rules" didn't change. Survival is always the first priority. If times get easier, then business as usual.
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Mushi-Man
Posts: 1537 Location: KCMO |
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Now this is something that I don't get. Why do people think that times are "hard" for the industry? I don't think they're hard right now, just normal. Things are basically going back to the way it was before the mini boom of anime and manga. In other words we're going back to the 90s. Plus in this type of "hard time" the companies need to work especially hard to please the fans. And this means making sure they don't step on the toes of anyone. Most of these industry guys have been around the block a few times and they know how to play the game. They were just like us at one point so they know how fans think, and they know how easily anime fans can get pissed off. I'm not saying that these unspoken rules are a good thing. I'm just saying that they exist and the companies know full well what will happen when they break them. |
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OLady
Posts: 163 Location: Texas |
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Perhaps I have paid too much attention to the industry charges of strangulation by scanlators and the demise of American manga publishing houses.
The general world economy is down. Most people have less money to spend. In many cases, manga is one of the things that had to go. If fewer people buy fewer manga, the publishing houses suffer. It's a straight-forward progression. Eventually, the situation in Greece will have repercussions here. Not good ones. More companies will fail and the results will be felt throughout the global network. Finance affects everyone. It is possible that this is just a *correction* as you say it is, but I think attention should be paid to the larger picture of which manga is a part. Everything is tied together. Nothing exists in a vacuum--except dust bunnies. |
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Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
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animenewsnetwork.com/news/2010-05-05/fbi-shuts-down-comics-scan-site Just in case anyone missed it since it's now off the main page, ANN posted a news piece on this, and there's a longer discussion thread on that talkback forum going with you might want to check out as well.
Keep in mind too that htmlcomics site owner was pretty open about how he wanted to make this into a business he could sell for millions, and admittedly wasn't even a comics fan- it was all greed oriented, something Colleen Doran's blogpost points out about, along with revealing the involvement of creators in this as they coordinated with the companies efforts and kept it all a secret [like you'd have to with any FBI investigation your involved in I guess]. It really paints a revelation as to what sort of people are running comics scans and scanlation aggregators sites, and why fans shouldn't be supporting them. I highly recommend reading the link to Colleen Doran's blog in the article- the discussion is still ongoing, and highlights just how many fandom opinions on piracy can make creative people feel. |
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population_tire
 Posts: 587 |
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I only read unlicensed series or series the company screwed up (Bo-BoBo) online.
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Soundmonkey44
 Posts: 1243 |
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Good for them. Piracy is one of the biggest thorns in the entertainment industries side overall....& while it can never be completly stopped, its always good to fight it when possible.
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