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REVIEW: Bleach Season 4 Box Set 2




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Raneth



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 265
PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:14 am Reply with quote
Oddly enough, I enjoyed the Bount arc way more than the previous Soul Society arc, and when the Bount arc was finished I stopped watching the show as intently. I found the actual manga content kind of derivative, with simple plotlines (save Rukia! Save Orihime! Fight people on the way and get stronger!) while the Bount arc introduced the history of the Bounts, developed their characters well, and melded them with the already existing world while simultaneously showcasing their powers. It was impressively done, and it seems to me that it was only because it was "filler" and everything has to return to status quo after it's over that a lot of people seem to dislike it.
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Dorcas_Aurelia



Joined: 23 Jul 2006
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Location: Philly
PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:01 am Reply with quote
Oh, yeah, I kind of remember the teamwork battle and enjoying the fact that it wasn't just like every other fight in Bleach ever.
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malvarez1



Joined: 17 Nov 2008
Posts: 1007
PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:08 pm Reply with quote
The Bount Arc was much better than any of Naruto's junky filler, but it still wasn't that good. To this day, I never finished Bount Arc.
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DmonHiro





PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:44 pm Reply with quote
I used to say that the Bount arc was shit and that Karya was a pussy. After seeing the new filler arc, with the brat, the new captain and parasite sword, all I can say is BRING BACK THE BOUNT! KARYA WAS GODLY!!!
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MaxSouth



Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 1341
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 2:11 pm Reply with quote
Yes, with the actual manga storyline is so dead unimaginative bad cliché in big scale, and nonsensical in fights and consistency in small scale, this Bleach's filler arc is actually better thing.

(It is contrary to Naruto, where manga plot is near to apotheosis of super-refined (tragic/dramatic, philosophical) storytelling, with filler arcs being pointless.)
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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
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Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:04 pm Reply with quote
MaxSouth wrote:
(It is contrary to Naruto, where manga plot is near to apotheosis of super-refined (tragic/dramatic, philosophical) storytelling, with filler arcs being pointless.)


This is what we call hyperbole.
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MaxSouth



Joined: 11 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 2:17 pm Reply with quote
Key wrote:
MaxSouth wrote:
(It is contrary to Naruto, where manga plot is near to apotheosis of super-refined (tragic/dramatic, philosophical) storytelling, with filler arcs being pointless.)


This is what we call hyperbole.


How?

The phrase contains "near to", so it is not absolutism. With this condition, it is not quite possible to actually deny what is said there (in essence that Naruto's multilayer, sophisticated storytelling is an opposite end in comparison to outright simplistic plot of Bleach, where nearly whole story can be literally put into one sentence).
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Key
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 3:31 pm Reply with quote
MaxSouth wrote:
Key wrote:
This is what we call hyperbole.


How?

The phrase contains "near to", so it is not absolutism. With this condition, it is not quite possible to actually deny what is said there (in essence that Naruto's multilayer, sophisticated storytelling is an opposite end in comparison to outright simplistic plot of Bleach, where nearly whole story can be literally put into one sentence).


You're mincing words here. I'm not even referring to those technicalities, but to your claim that Naruto is a near-godly example of "multilayered, sophisticated storytelling." Granted, I haven't seen the last few dozen episodes of Shippuden (or read the manga equivalents), but nothing I have seen/read so far leads me to believe that this claim is anywhere close to being supportable.
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John Casey



Joined: 31 May 2009
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Location: In My Angry Center
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:10 pm Reply with quote
You know...Key, you can just go "Lul. Dead wrong.", since I don't even see the point of entertaining that kind of debate...
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ZakuAce



Joined: 06 Jan 2010
Posts: 525
Location: SE Wisconsin
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:14 pm Reply with quote
John Casey wrote:
You know...Key, you can just go "Lul. Dead wrong.", since I don't even see the point of entertaining that kind of debate...


Except Key is more professional than your average internet denizen.
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John Casey



Joined: 31 May 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 9:22 am Reply with quote
ZakuAce wrote:
John Casey wrote:
You know...Key, you can just go "Lul. Dead wrong.", since I don't even see the point of entertaining that kind of debate...


Except Key is more professional than your average internet denizen.

Blegh. It's all...political correctness. Let's see your professionalism when the world asplodes from a nuclear catastrophe, and we're all raiding soup-can caravans with sawn-offs and really old cars whilst wearing impractical leather and eye-patches on both eyes.
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MaxSouth



Joined: 11 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 11:10 am Reply with quote
Key wrote:
You're mincing words here. I'm not even referring to those technicalities, but to your claim that Naruto is a near-godly example of "multilayered, sophisticated storytelling." Granted, I haven't seen the last few dozen episodes of Shippuden (or read the manga equivalents), but nothing I have seen/read so far leads me to believe that this claim is anywhere close to being supportable.


then try to describe Naruto's plot similar to Bleach' "Save Rukia, save Orihime" super linear "story"...

lets compare level of thought which was given to Natuto and Bleach mangas:

a. while one could say "Save Sasuke, bring peace, become Hogake" is Naruto's tagline, it is not a plot sequence: even when the story concerns to "saving" Sasuke, it is in totally different way than just from him being kidnapped; different depth level (or, as of now, the events are rather about saving the peace from Sasuke, than saving him)...

b. story of Sasuke's and his brother's background, as well as main enemy's group motivation, history and structure are complicated and multi-layered, which required great deal of thought of the author (simple-minded viewers even did grasp the whole picture of some events). No attempt to think can be seen in "Rukia kidnapped, Orihime kidnapped" "story" other than to drag the battles to new kind of territories/enemies, which is simple cliche for any shonen battle manga -- except for in Bleach it was used twice in the row, which is new low of no-story...

c. Natuto's battles often are very thought-out, chess-like parties, not like Bleaches' Ichigo/captains systematically "struggling" in the fights with opponents, shedding litres of blood, only to "remember"/"discover" at last minute to use theirs before-not-disclosed to viewers "bankai"/"arracan" powers. Bleach battles mostly super-fun for viewers anyway (because viewers do not know what abilities will appear), but mostly there is totally different class of thought and refinement in treatment of battles in Naruto...

d. Naruto's pseudoscience about supernatural abilities of its heros and antiheroes is very deeply developed; can be only compared to "Hunter X Hunter". There is almost nothing of such kind of "reasoning" in Bleach; it is very simplistic in it as every other shonen manga...

e. while Naruto as character is typical cliche superactive ever-hungry physically lasting dunce, other initial settings are far more original -- ninja world, not samurai (Bleach fell for it), no "schooler all of sudden discovered he has superpowers" cliche (Bleach fell for it), no spirits/demons (Bleach fell for it). Also, Naruto contains great deal of ancient Japanese mythology, which was rarely or even never used (Snake, Toad, Slug heroes, sacred mythic blades, et cetera)...

the area where Bleach equals and even surpasses Naturo is sheer beauty and elegance of visual graphic design of most of creatures/heroes. But on *content*/*story* side, in terms what really happens in the story, Bleach is nearly empty, pointless cliche...

it is in opposite corner to Natuto, where so many events, circumstances, and plot cobwebs that one could go on and on, trying to explain what happens there. Yet, even surprising "false bottom" plot twists can be tracked down to manga's story which was published years back and confirmed to be consistent.

This is how much well-thought Naruto's story is through years; Kishimoto (Naruto's author) came up with multiyear plan ahead for some key plot events, having dark, dramatic, at time tragic, epic story. Not like this:

Bleach manga 'plan' wrote:
ok, I have to start with something... and it is better be something original!..
I know!.. lets say a schooler found out that he has superpowers and he has to protect the souls of people from bad spirits that eat the souls...

well, he protects, fights here and there, but what else I can do with it?.. there has to be at least some other story than just monster of the week formula... besides, I need to shift locations... Oh, I see: lets say his acquittance was kidnapped to the world of death gods and he and his friends have to save her!..

.. uh-uh... saved, ok... what else can happen with all of this?.. lets see... there has to be some original twist... And, again, I have to change locations and show the world of bad spirits... Oh! I got it!! main hero's school friend should be kidnapped to the dimension of evil soul eating spirits!.. He and his friends have to save her!!

(hmm... am I using the same "plot twist" consecutively twice in row?.. well, so be it... could not think of anything better, and my readers are not that capable of demanding sophistication anyway...)
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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
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Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:36 pm Reply with quote
MaxSouth wrote:
lets compare level of thought which was given to Natuto and Bleach mangas:

Before we get into this, let's be clear here that I never once tried to claim that Bleach does not have a simplistic plot structure, nor that Naruto does not have a more complicated one. I also have not denied that Naruto doesn't have some complexity to it. I am only saying that Naruto is not a paragon of depth and complexity like you're making it out to be. Any future arguments (after this one) by you, in any of your future posts on this issue, which do not address this specifically will be ignored.

Quote:
b. story of Sasuke's and his brother's background, as well as main enemy's group motivation, history and structure are complicated and multi-layered, which required great deal of thought of the author (simple-minded viewers even did grasp the whole picture of some events).

What's really all that complicated or multilayered about it? I've found that to be pretty typical stuff. At the very least, if evaluated without comparison to Bleach, it's nothing exceptional. Besides, you keep beating on the simplicity of the "save Rukia/Orihime" arcs while failing to acknowledge that other things are going on in both of those arcs besides just the rescues, yet you're giving Naruto credit for the side concerns its raises to make its overall arcs more fleshed-out. Naruto is also more guilty than any shonen series I've ever seen of interrupting its fight and storytelling flow with needlessly involved (and in many cases entirely needless) background stories; Bleach suffers from this problem, too, but it can only hope to aspire to Naruto's level on this.

And concerning comments you make later about how Naruto's creator had a multiyear plan? That's commendable but also to be expected; most of the better manga-kas do this.

Quote:
Natuto's battles often are very thought-out, chess-like parties, not like Bleaches' Ichigo/captains systematically "struggling" in the fights with opponents. . .

Some of them are, I'll certainly grant you; I've commented on examples of that in some of my reviews of Naruto material. That series also has its fair share of battles that are just straight-up escalating power struggles, however; some of the biggest in the first series, like the Sasuke/Naruto head-to-heads and (for the most part) Sasuke/Gaara, fall into that category. Naruto is also much more guilty than Bleach of having its characters act stupidly in fights just to make the heroes seem more threatened. (This applies to Naruto himself about half the time.)

Quote:
d. Naruto's pseudoscience about supernatural abilities of its heros and antiheroes is very deeply developed; can be only compared to "Hunter X Hunter".

Since I've seen very little of Shippuden, I'll have to take your word on that. I do not see that as being especially heavily evident in the first series, however, and the mechanics that they do show in the first series are no less cheesy than any other series of this type.

Quote:
e. while Naruto as character is typical cliche superactive ever-hungry physically lasting dunce, other initial settings are far more original -- ninja world, not samurai (Bleach fell for it), no "schooler all of sudden discovered he has superpowers" cliche (Bleach fell for it), no spirits/demons (Bleach fell for it). Also, Naruto contains great deal of ancient Japanese mythology, which was rarely or even never used (Snake, Toad, Slug heroes, sacred mythic blades, et cetera)...

Naruto did break some new ground with its ninja-focused structure and mechanics; no question about that. Beyond that, though, your argument about Naruto being original is thin.
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