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NEWS: 18 Arrested in Japan for Uploading via Share Program


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mglittlerobin



Joined: 28 Aug 2008
Posts: 1070
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:37 am Reply with quote
Digital piracy debate incoming! *Snags popcorn* Why don't they just give up already? You'd think with all the other arrests Japanese users would quit uploading.
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Iritscen



Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 790
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:12 pm Reply with quote
*tries to muster sympathy for the arrested, fails*

Well, I bet I'm not the only one who finds the list interesting as a demographic sampler (what sort of person uploads which sort of show). The more mature shows seem to belong to the older uploaders. #8 is is a sad case, though. I hope he's happy with himself. He's 42 and he uploaded Wii Party and SD Gundam.
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Metanomaly



Joined: 23 Jul 2010
Posts: 107
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:58 pm Reply with quote
And Americans think they have it tough because they can get sued for copyright infringement!

Iritscen wrote:
SD Gundam.


I dunno, my friend. SD Gundam is pretty awesome. Very Happy
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LordRobin



Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Posts: 354
Location: Akron, OH
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:07 pm Reply with quote
I'll say this for Japanese uploaders: they're either very, very courageous, or very, very stupid. Winny was cracked, Share was cracked, Perfect Dark looks to be cracked, and yet they keep uploading.

I'm used to this cat-and-mouse game running in the other direction, with DRM authors trying to create the perfect file protection and file-sharers quickly hacking each new scheme. And yet this same type of individual, who understands that there's no such thing as unbreakable security, seems to think those rules doesn't apply when the digital information you're trying to protect is your own privacy.

It's not going to work. I really hope people sharing files in Japan are doing so for ideological reasons, not because they actually believe that, this time, the security is rock-solid and no one will ever catch them.

------RM
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configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 3713
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:38 pm Reply with quote
Iritscen wrote:
*tries to muster sympathy for the arrested, fails*

Well, I bet I'm not the only one who finds the list interesting as a demographic sampler (what sort of person uploads which sort of show). The more mature shows seem to belong to the older uploaders. #8 is is a sad case, though. I hope he's happy with himself. He's 42 and he uploaded Wii Party and SD Gundam.

you have to upload in order to download at any decent rate. They were probably sharing a whole cache of stuff but were only tracked with those listed.

I myself can't muster sympathy for the other side--law enforcement or companies pursuing this route. It's not like they're going to improve business one bit even if they literally arrested everyone. There are 100's of new anime shows a year. Ya think most people can even afford a tiny fraction of that at $500 to $1000 a pop? (especially considering living of unemployment like a few of these guys; and those who are employed also get paid significantly less than their american counterparts; heck animators are a part of that poor bunch as well) PVRs can't help either due to severe restrictions. It's no wonder why most shows--moe included--loose money. Like I've mentioned before, the difference in sales between the best sellers--only a handful--and the rest of those 100s is staggering. Only some can compensate with merchandise, since it's quite obvious that more people can afford spending $50 instead of $500+. In fact this situation is the reverse with manga precisely because it's so cheap and available, particularly for the more common thick serialized manga "magazine" format.
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bayoab



Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Posts: 831
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:43 pm Reply with quote
mglittlerobin wrote:
Why don't they just give up already? You'd think with all the other arrests Japanese users would quit uploading.
It has a noticeable effect. They don't "quit uploading" but the amount shared decreases significantly after each arrest.
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ZODDGUTS



Joined: 27 Oct 2003
Posts: 600
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:44 pm Reply with quote
LordRobin wrote:
I'll say this for Japanese uploaders: they're either very, very courageous, or very, very stupid. Winny was cracked, Share was cracked, Perfect Dark looks to be cracked, and yet they keep uploading.


------RM


The Japanese are behind the times. It's time for them to start using IRC!
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Metanomaly



Joined: 23 Jul 2010
Posts: 107
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:50 pm Reply with quote
ZODDGUTS wrote:
LordRobin wrote:
I'll say this for Japanese uploaders: they're either very, very courageous, or very, very stupid. Winny was cracked, Share was cracked, Perfect Dark looks to be cracked, and yet they keep uploading.


------RM


The Japanese are behind the times. It's time for them to start using IRC!


IRC is simply overlooked/not high volume enough at the moment. It's trivial to track accounts/people/machines on IRC, since IRC's intent is not obfuscation.
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edzieba



Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 704
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:29 pm Reply with quote
LordRobin wrote:
Perfect Dark looks to be cracked
No, the previous arrests resulted from users of PD 'outing' themselves in traceable forums & etc. (e.g. by posting their uploader tripcode).
Quote:
And yet this same type of individual, who understands that there's no such thing as unbreakable security, seems to think those rules doesn't apply when the digital information you're trying to protect is your own privacy.
Because the two are fundamentally different. The purpose of DRM is to prevent someone you have given the ciphertext and and the cipherkey from decrypting the ciphertext. This is an impossibility. What PD does is prevent anyone from identifying the content, sender and recipient of the plaintext while in transit, by breaking it into chunks of ciphertext and sending those chunks on a random wander through the network. In order to even identify the intended (important!) recipient of a chunk, you'd have to control the vast majority of the network*. In order to identify it's initial sender, you'd have to control pretty much the entire network. And that ignores the problem of identifying what file the chunk is part of without attempting to download said file, a prerequisite for either of the aforementioned.

bayoab wrote:
It has a noticeable effect. They don't "quit uploading" but the amount shared decreases significantly after each arrest.
True, though the effect is only temporary.
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vashna



Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Posts: 1313
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:40 pm Reply with quote
Have any arrests actually been made based on the downloaders though, since the law changed?

That being said, going after the sources seems to make more sense to me.
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ConanSan



Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 1818
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:33 pm Reply with quote
Ignoring the debate incoming (Yes to buying stuff, no to companies being lazy/xenophobic and not willing to take my money thus pushing me in the direction of el torento), these guys got what was coming to them for not keeping up.

Not advocating what they're doing, but sheesh, don't run into the fire when you're doused in petrol.
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mudduck454



Joined: 29 Jul 2009
Posts: 303
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:28 pm Reply with quote
think about it, they grabbed 18 people out of thousands who use perfect dark and share, so this is really an insignificant amount of arrests, when they say they have arrested hundreds upon hundreds of people, at one time, then I might stand up and say wow, until then, I will just read it as a few people who were caught by being stupid, those people might have also been caught by being dumb about what they say in public forums,
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nhat



Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 916
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:02 pm Reply with quote
I'm surprise no rage posts about illegal sharing.

Again to reiterate the reason for the arrests because someone didn't read the article or make false assumptions. The people got arrested for UPLOADING not downloading.
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bayoab



Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Posts: 831
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:09 pm Reply with quote
mudduck454 wrote:
think about it, they grabbed 18 people out of thousands who use perfect dark and share, so this is really an insignificant amount of arrests, when they say they have arrested hundreds upon hundreds of people, at one time, then I might stand up and say wow, until then, I will just read it as a few people who were caught by being stupid, those people might have also been caught by being dumb about what they say in public forums,

Based on previous arrests, these are almost all initial uploaders who have trips. They are part of the <5% that introduce things into the cloud. This is a massive dent to the usability of the program.
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Metanomaly



Joined: 23 Jul 2010
Posts: 107
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:09 pm Reply with quote
nhat wrote:
I'm surprise no rage posts about illegal sharing.

Again to reiterate the reason for the arrests because someone didn't read the article or make false assumptions. The people got arrested for UPLOADING not downloading.


Which is really the way this needs to be addressed. There's thousands and thousands of downloaders, but a relatively small number of uploaders.

Slap uploaders, even a small number, publicly, harshly and frequently enough, people start to think think twice.

Of course, there's always going to be the rebels who "on principle" rip/share/upload copyrighted works because they think all information should be free, but they're the minority.

The majority of folks who engage in copyright infringement do it because 1) downloading/uploading requires relatively little technical competence to get what they're looking for, 2) the downloaders are to cheap to pay for something they feel they're entitled to and 3) the uploaders are looking for reputation in their scenes.

It's not about stopping all of them. It's about stopping most of them (and the most egregious infringers).
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