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NEWS: Live-Action Ghost in the Shell Film's 'Major C' Ad Streamed




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Hauberk



Joined: 19 Jun 2016
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:42 pm Reply with quote
A lot of the other cast seem to be of varying asian decent. I still don't know how I feel about this being white washed like atlab.
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omegaproxy



Joined: 28 Sep 2010
Posts: 332
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:33 pm Reply with quote
This is so exciting. Can't wait to see this.
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Ashen Phoenix



Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 2463
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:59 pm Reply with quote
I've enjoyed a lot of Johansson's work and my personal favorite incarnation of GITS is its TV seasons, so I'm cautiously optimistic about this film from what I've seen so far.
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R315r4z0r



Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 670
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:54 pm Reply with quote
Hauberk wrote:
A lot of the other cast seem to be of varying asian decent. I still don't know how I feel about this being white washed like atlab.

It's not whitewashed, though!

Most of the characters that should be Asian ARE Asian.

The only exception is Ishikawa. And maybe that new girl, who is obviously a replacement for Pazu. (..why?)

The Major needed to be cast with a white actress if they intended to stay true to the source material. And this is for two separate reasons too.
1. The Major is a full cyborg. She has no ethnicity. She's about as Asian as a toaster. This goes for any character that has a large number of prosthetics.
2. The prosthetic body that she tends to use the most is that of a Caucasian design.

The only thing about the Major that I'm kinda ticked off about is that they revealed her name to be Mira Killian. So, unless that somehow plays into the story of fake memories and stolen life, revealing that it's just a fake name that was given to her... then I'm rather unhappy. Because, despite what I said before about them being correct in casting a white actress, then went ahead and changed her name for absolutely no reason.
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SHD



Joined: 05 Apr 2015
Posts: 548
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:41 am Reply with quote
R315r4z0r wrote:
The Major needed to be cast with a white actress if they intended to stay true to the source material. And this is for two separate reasons too.
1. The Major is a full cyborg. She has no ethnicity. She's about as Asian as a toaster. This goes for any character that has a large number of prosthetics.
2. The prosthetic body that she tends to use the most is that of a Caucasian design.

Where are you getting all this from?
1. Never in the source materials (not in the manga, not in the Oshii movies, not in SAC, not in Arise) is she ever mentioned to be non-Japanese or that her body is a Caucasian design. Correct me if I'm wrong but I can't remember this ever being mentioned.

2. And that might be because
-she lives in Japan (was presumably born in Japan, too), and is a Japanese citizen who works for the Japanese government
-is pretty much a secret agent who needs to blend in (do you know one of the best ways to not blend in in Asia? be white and look like ScarJo)
-she goes by a Japanese name
-the Oshii movies which this movie seems to be aping really hard, but IIRC the manga as well, make it clear that her body is a mass-produced model (only of course heavily customized). Do you think that mass-produced cyborg bodies in Asia would be Caucasian?

(Also, just because she's a full cyborg doesn't mean she can just jump in and out of bodies. Her body is state of the art technology equipped with all sorts of extra stuff that you don't get in bodies for civilian use. It's not like she can just pick and choose random bodies to use whenever she feels like it, and still be able to do her job.)

Just accept that they changed a character who is for all intents and purposes Japanese, into a white American (down to her name!), and move on with your life. They wanted to cast a famous white action star who they expect will attract more people to see the movie than a less famous Asian actress. That's all.
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Cptn_Taylor



Joined: 08 Nov 2013
Posts: 912
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:04 am Reply with quote
SHD wrote:
They wanted to cast a famous white action star who they expect will attract more people to see the movie than a less famous Asian actress. That's all.


Exactly, that is the difference between a movie no one will give a shit about (and make no money) except four cats that point out "yeah the film adheres perfectly to the original material because they cast an asian gal as the lead actor", and a movie that at least has the capacity to bring in hundreds of millions of $ in profit with a lead actor that has an international renown.
People should be happy to want to see a live action anime film succeed.
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R315r4z0r



Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 670
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:32 am Reply with quote
SHD wrote:
R315r4z0r wrote:
The Major needed to be cast with a white actress if they intended to stay true to the source material. And this is for two separate reasons too.
1. The Major is a full cyborg. She has no ethnicity. She's about as Asian as a toaster. This goes for any character that has a large number of prosthetics.
2. The prosthetic body that she tends to use the most is that of a Caucasian design.

Where are you getting all this from?
1. Never in the source materials (not in the manga, not in the Oshii movies, not in SAC, not in Arise) is she ever mentioned to be non-Japanese or that her body is a Caucasian design. Correct me if I'm wrong but I can't remember this ever being mentioned.

You're not wrong, but you're not right either. For starters, there really isn't too much continuity between each iteration of the source material. IE, the story of Motoko in the Manga isn't the same as Motoko in Arise. They are all adaptations on the same universe.

That being said, it's important to note that this movie is based off of Oshii's films. In various interviews with Oshii, he stated that he was very much inspired by European literature and that inspiration bled through to a lot of his work such as Avalon and Ghost in the Shell.

Ignoring even that, just looking at her character design in his films, she has particularly white skin and blue eyes. Although that doesn't mean too much. There is a scene where Motoko wakes up next to a prosthetic body of the same model she is, except this body has blond hair; another Caucation trait.

This is just going off the Oshii films. But if you look at other material, such as SAC, she changes her body and appearance multiple times. There is even a point in the show where she was a male soldier.

Regardless, this is, quite literally, the point of the movie. Just looking at the title of the film should be enough to quell people's blind rage. It's simple critical thinking and philosophy. Ghost in the Shell. It's a philosophy questioning the idea of a soul (ghost) and how it can live outside of a body (shell.) Its a story diving into the concept of if one's ghost can live outside one's shell, and if one's shell is even necessary in the first place. (Basically, any comments regarding race or ethnicity are petty and show a poor understanding of the material.)

SHD wrote:
2. And that might be because
-she lives in Japan (was presumably born in Japan, too), and is a Japanese citizen who works for the Japanese government

A toaster made in Japan and is used in a Japanese government building in Japan could also fill this description.
SHD wrote:
-is pretty much a secret agent who needs to blend in (do you know one of the best ways to not blend in in Asia? be white and look like ScarJo)

No, she isn't, really. Who exactly is she trying to hide from? Why does she need to blend in? In fact, it seems to me that she often goes out of her way to stand out. Why? Because she can just hack away her existence from people she doesn't want to see her. And, regardless, a full prosthetic body doesn't have to be asian in an asian country. You have no basis for this claim.
SHD wrote:
-she goes by a Japanese name

Which, according to SAC, is actually an alias she came up with herself. Because, despite your body's looks not being important, having a Japanese name in a Japanese country is.

Regardless, if we are going with SAC canon, then we learn that she doesn't even know what her original name or ethnicity was. She's been in that body since she was a child due to a plane crash.

SHD wrote:
-the Oshii movies which this movie seems to be aping really hard, but IIRC the manga as well, make it clear that her body is a mass-produced model (only of course heavily customized). Do you think that mass-produced cyborg bodies in Asia would be Caucasian?

Why not?

SHD wrote:
(Also, just because she's a full cyborg doesn't mean she can just jump in and out of bodies. Her body is state of the art technology equipped with all sorts of extra stuff that you don't get in bodies for civilian use. It's not like she can just pick and choose random bodies to use whenever she feels like it, and still be able to do her job.)

So, did you not watch SAC at all? Because she swaps between a decent amount of bodies in that series.

Just because her main body is specially designed doesn't make her incompatible with other bodies.
SHD wrote:
Just accept that they changed a character who is for all intents and purposes Japanese, into a white American (down to her name!), and move on with your life. They wanted to cast a famous white action star who they expect will attract more people to see the movie than a less famous Asian actress. That's all.

I'm not going to accept an incorrect assertion.

Yes, it's obviously true that the cast a well known white actress in order to get the movie green lit. But what ISN'T true is that the role was white washed.

If ANY role in this movie was ethnically redesigned it would be Ishikawa and, more importantly, Ladriya - who is seemingly a rewrite of Pazu. And although I have no evidence to support this claim, based on vague character profiles of her saying that she is "good with knives" and the fact that Pazu is absent from the cast, I think it's a fair assumption (considering Pazu was also good with knives.) I care much more about them rewriting Pazu than I care about them correctly casting Major.
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SHD



Joined: 05 Apr 2015
Posts: 548
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:36 pm Reply with quote
R315r4z0r wrote:
That being said, it's important to note that this movie is based off of Oshii's films. In various interviews with Oshii, he stated that he was very much inspired by European literature and that inspiration bled through to a lot of his work such as Avalon and Ghost in the Shell.

....So? What does this prove? Oshii was influenced by European literature -> the movie's main character is Caucasian? Huh?

R315r4z0r wrote:
Ignoring even that, just looking at her character design in his films, she has particularly white skin and blue eyes. Although that doesn't mean too much.

Indeed, it doesn't. I've met Japanese people with skin as light as mine and I'm as Caucasian as they come. I'm not sure what you're trying to argue for here?

R315r4z0r wrote:
There is a scene where Motoko wakes up next to a prosthetic body of the same model she is, except this body has blond hair; another Caucation trait.

Yes, blond it's a hair color that rarely occurs in Asians... naturally. But there's literally no reason why an Asian person couldn't have blond hair (hair dye exists), and even fewer reasons why an Asian-made prosthetic body couldn't have blond hair if its creator so wanted. (Or purple hair, which the Major has in all incarnations, even in the Oshii movies it's kind of a dark purplish black.) Or are you trying to argue that anime characters with non-black and brown hair colors cannot be Japanese?

R315r4z0r wrote:
This is just going off the Oshii films. But if you look at other material, such as SAC, she changes her body and appearance multiple times. There is even a point in the show where she was a male soldier.

Funny that you should mention SAC because there it's an actual plot point in S1 that she eventually returns to the same body. She even says "no other body will do". (And it's also a plot point that she keeps using a female model so she can wear her watch.) And apparently she has multiple versions of the same body available for use. Again, just because she can switch bodies doesn't mean she has no sense of physical self.

R315r4z0r wrote:
Regardless, this is, quite literally, the point of the movie. Just looking at the title of the film should be enough to quell people's blind rage. It's simple critical thinking and philosophy. Ghost in the Shell. It's a philosophy questioning the idea of a soul (ghost) and how it can live outside of a body (shell.) Its a story diving into the concept of if one's ghost can live outside one's shell, and if one's shell is even necessary in the first place. (Basically, any comments regarding race or ethnicity are petty and show a poor understanding of the material.)

And all this has literally nothing to do with whether she's Caucasian or not. This doesn't prove anything.

R315r4z0r wrote:
SHD wrote:
2. And that might be because
-she lives in Japan (was presumably born in Japan, too), and is a Japanese citizen who works for the Japanese government

A toaster made in Japan and is used in a Japanese government building in Japan could also fill this description.

So? A toaster made in Japan is a Japanese toaster. It probably has Japanese buttons and a Japanese language manual.

R315r4z0r wrote:
SHD wrote:
-is pretty much a secret agent who needs to blend in (do you know one of the best ways to not blend in in Asia? be white and look like ScarJo)

No, she isn't, really. Who exactly is she trying to hide from? Why does she need to blend in? In fact, it seems to me that she often goes out of her way to stand out. Why? Because she can just hack away her existence from people she doesn't want to see her. And, regardless, a full prosthetic body doesn't have to be asian in an asian country. You have no basis for this claim.

Dude, she's basically James Bond. She's member of a secret govt. force. If she mindhacked everyone that ever meets or sees her she would have no time to do her job.

R315r4z0r wrote:
SHD wrote:
-she goes by a Japanese name

Which, according to SAC, is actually an alias she came up with herself. Because, despite your body's looks not being important, having a Japanese name in a Japanese country is.

That's why I said "goes by". But 1) it's a name she came up with herself so clearly it's tied to her sense of self, 2) having a Japanese name and a Caucasian body would be quite silly.

R315r4z0r wrote:
SHD wrote:
-the Oshii movies which this movie seems to be aping really hard, but IIRC the manga as well, make it clear that her body is a mass-produced model (only of course heavily customized). Do you think that mass-produced cyborg bodies in Asia would be Caucasian?

Why not?

Just... think about that for a second. Do sit down and think.

R315r4z0r wrote:
SHD wrote:
(Also, just because she's a full cyborg doesn't mean she can just jump in and out of bodies. Her body is state of the art technology equipped with all sorts of extra stuff that you don't get in bodies for civilian use. It's not like she can just pick and choose random bodies to use whenever she feels like it, and still be able to do her job.)

So, did you not watch SAC at all? Because she swaps between a decent amount of bodies in that series.

She does, and she keeps returning to the one that is her "main" body, and the one that has all the nifty military customizations. Note how she rarely ever fights while in another body.

R315r4z0r wrote:
Yes, it's obviously true that the cast a well known white actress in order to get the movie green lit. But what ISN'T true is that the role was white washed.

Oh for pete's sake. It was. Get over it.
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