Forum - View topic
Manga Answerman - Is the Distinction Between Manga And "Manga-Style Comics" Going Away?


Goto page 1, 2  Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Gemnist



Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 1348
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:08 pm Reply with quote
It’s still a personal wish to have a Scott Pilgrim anime - I know it’s formatted like a traditional graphic novel, but the artwork is just too reminiscent of anime to pass up.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Haterater



Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 1470
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:36 pm Reply with quote
As long as I like the art and story, I'm there. No labels necessary.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Manga
TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 3816
Location: Virginia, United States
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:15 pm Reply with quote
For me, manga will always be a Japanese thing. When I was a teenager, I grow up with comic books, like Kamandi and the Fantastic Four. As I got older, Heavy Metal got me interested in French comic artists. Later, Masamune Shirow, Kenichi Sonada, and Johji Manabe got me into manga. Manga first, then much later Shirow corrupted me into doujinshi.

I kind of agree, that calling something manga, that didn't come from Japan, is more a marketing ploy than anything else.

But, whether you are a French, American, or Japanese (or etc) artist, who really cares whether it is considered manga or a comic. If you put out great artwork and a great story you will find an audience. Everyone says labels are evil, yet we all seek to label ourselves anyway.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Shiflan



Joined: 29 Jul 2015
Posts: 403
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:24 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
This is tough, because when these newbie creators call their work “manga,” they're inviting comparison with the best work by creators with years of experience that's coming out of Japan today.


Frankly, I think that quote from the article is a bit ridiculous. Does that mean that anyone who claims to be a "painter" is trying to put themselves on the same level as Van Eyck or Rembrandt? If I say that "I play guitar" does that mean I consider myself on the same level as Hendrix or Steven Stills? Or for that matter, does everyone who draws American-style superhero comics consider himself on par with Stan Lee or Jack Kirby? This is nonsense.

I think the only thing anyone intends when they claim that their work is "manga" is that it resembles the artistic styles typical of Manga; it is not some absurd claim that they are on the same level as Tezuka or Takahashi.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
I_Drive_DSM



Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 127
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:39 pm Reply with quote
^ I was a little irritated by that explanation as well.

I think a better way it should have be analyzed is in similar concept to the sort of genres that exist in art itself. You can paint Renaissance but do you align your inspirations to Early or High Renaissance, for example? I don't think anyone who draws in a manga -style believes themselves that their works are compared to long-established artists, and if anything it seems it the critics - something immediately reinforces with that bit in the article - that critiques non-Japanese artists with manga influences unfairly against Japanese manga artists.

It's really a 'damned if you do' situation of sorts from my eyes.

Quote:
The art is sometimes awkward, the dialogue is stilted, and the storytelling is drab and predictable


There's a lot of Japanese manga that can be lumped into all of that as well.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Shiflan



Joined: 29 Jul 2015
Posts: 403
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:48 pm Reply with quote
I_Drive_DSM wrote:

Quote:
The art is sometimes awkward, the dialogue is stilted, and the storytelling is drab and predictable


There's a lot of Japanese manga that can be lumped into all of that as well.


Agreed. Just because something (art, music, cooking, etc) is done in a particular style does not mean that it is necessarily good or compares favorably to masters of the genre. I've read plenty of bad manga. And those statements are especially silly in the context of art, where a lot of it is the matter of the reader or viewer's preferences. It's subjective.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Fenrin



Joined: 19 Dec 2015
Posts: 430
Location: Southern California
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:47 pm Reply with quote
I don't mind at all foreign works getting the anime treatment and regarded as in the same ballpark as 'Japanese masterpieces,' the more the merrier. In fact there are still a bevy of foreign works out there that deserve adaptions in my opinion (in the name of all that is holy PLEASE give us a Tower of God anime). Recently we've seen China partner with Japan on several works, so hopefully we will see a broader range of partnerships going forward.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
residentgrigo



Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Posts: 1518
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:58 pm Reply with quote
Japan was used as farming ground for animation for decades before they became too expensive. Its interesting to see the opposite occur and we shouldn´t forget all those Marvel anime. So many... and only X-men was watchable. Urgh. Those were specifically targeted at Japan, which explains why they heavily relied on simplistic canon and Japanese charters or trips to Japan.

I´ll disagree with Justin that the lines are blurring more than usual recently when it comes to anime but Korean and Chinese comic artists crossing over to Japan has become a small trend in the scene. Likely one with staying power.

The Radiant "bande dessinée" is lastly the definition of a 5/10 copy cat. Its better than some of the things it aspires to be though, as for example Fairy Tail. I´ll give it that. Lol.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
Caramichael



Joined: 07 Mar 2015
Posts: 114
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:27 pm Reply with quote
I agree with what others said, wether or not it is good or bad, if someone draws in a manga style, to appeal to a manga fandom, they have the right to call their work manga. It's like refusing to call Comic style work Comics because they are not published by an American editor.

Like Debi* said, we are living in an incredible artistic period with the internet and globalization, people read comic books from across the world and are inspired by those to create their own work. Today they call them according to their influences, but who knows one day we'll see the birth of new styles like Webcomics did.

*corrected, givin dues where it's due.


Last edited by Caramichael on Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dfens



Joined: 08 Feb 2013
Posts: 429
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:22 pm Reply with quote
If you guys bothered to pay attention Justin didn't write this particular article it was given to Debi Aoki who is a person who knows her stuff when it comes to Manga.

I pretty much agree with her views what she said in her article.

To me if you call your work Manga because it looks similar to it then I'll probably get flak for this but I don't care I'll come out and call you are a Poser looking for some sort of validation.

Look not all painters are claiming they are the next Vango or Da Vinci etc because they are also painters, but their hasn't really been anybody in recent history that will go down in the history books as a modern comparison showing how high the bar is.

Their is tons of Mangaka who's work is crap. From the story telling to the horrible low level artwork and guess what theiir title is canceled real fast as a response. So not everything the native Japense put out in the Manga world is a success.

These foreign authors should just call their stuff comics and be happy if people like it and purchase their work. Instead of trying to shoe horn in that title Manga which is widely known as a Japanese thing but for some reason people think that it's wrong to say that a non-Japanese can't also create Manga.

A big reason I stopped reading Amercica Comics was I didn't like that various level or artwork but I was tired of the same old decades ongoing super hero crap. And the few artistist's I did like to collect well that got lazy or greedy and stopped putting out regular work. One in particular that I liked and my best friend idolizes by buying all his crap J. Scott Campbell, he draws cover art for other artists books for Marvel etc and that's it. And the rest of the book doesn't match his level of detail and he makes more money doing just covers than drawing a entire book and it's just one image so takes less time.

This whole debacle reminds me of the whole OEL Tokyo Pop crap from years back, call your work Manga or what ever you want you ain't fooling anybody and the sales/success prove that the consumer knows what's what and is willing to plop down their money for it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
reanimator



Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 1238
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:22 pm Reply with quote
I've noticed that some of people here got irritated by the Answerman's view on how non-Japanese artists drawing manga-style comic getting compared with established Japanese publications. Before calling for "internationalization/globalization" with manga-style on comic books, I do think that both fans and artists missing the most important point of what makes manga such a powerful comic medium that took over the world.

Before getting angry by the comparison, drawing in "manga-style" is just superficial and both fans and comic artist tend to overlook effective visual storytelling told in manga.

Like it or not, manga fans will subconsciously compare manga-style comic book with Japanese counterpart because how the word is branded. Manga = Japanese; Manhwa = Korean; Manhua = Chinese; and the list goes on.

When I was a kid, I remember manga got flak from comic book nerds for being different from usual Marvel and Image superhero comic books. They didn't like cute cartoony character designs common in manga. Fast forward 20 years, you see more kids paging through manga than comic books in local bookstores and libraries. Why is that?

Word of mouth and TV anime are one of the reasons, but the reason why (young) people read manga because of its easy-to-digest visual storytelling.

When I pick up comic books, I get turned off by most of them because they have too much unnecessary narrations and overstuffed word bubbles and illustrations don't do a good job making the story easy to understand. I don't have time to lounge around and getting obsessed with detailed artworks while on lunch break. I want quick and fast entertainment set to my pace. Character designs and archetypes come and go, but without good storytelling that comic book is good as dead in the water.

Even if a comic book artist perfectly applies latest & hottest manga-style on his characters in his comic, but if his storytelling is bad then potential reader (not some comic art nerd) will put it down because the reader can't follow the story.

FYI, I used to dig Adam Warren's Dirty Pair comics when I was a young anime fan in 90's, but I ditched his works because as I discovered manga that fits my taste. In my opinion, he gets manga style storyboarding and expressions really well, but I think he's still stuck on superhero genre which I'm not fan of.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lord Oink



Joined: 06 Jul 2016
Posts: 789
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:27 pm Reply with quote
I mean, as someone who used to read American comics, I'd say there's quite a huge different in the industry and mindset that just doesn't exist outside of Japan and would never work in America, even if you look beyond big company comics and at the indie industry, and believe me, they tried to cash in on the manga crazy back in the early 2000s. It's ultimately why I lost interest in comics.

France, Korea, and other markets are a whole different beast. France has been influenced by manga a lot longer than America has, and their industry is also much larger. Ditto for Korea.

TarsTarkas wrote:
I kind of agree, that calling something manga, that didn't come from Japan, is more a marketing ploy than anything else.


The thing is even if you somehow manage to will the definition of manga to be a genre or style in America, you'll just have people start saying 'I like Japanese comics' instead of 'I like manga'. It's an argument based on semantics when you get down to it.

Dfens wrote:
A big reason I stopped reading Amercica Comics was I didn't like that various level or artwork but I was tired of the same old decades ongoing super hero crap. And the few artistist's I did like to collect well that got lazy or greedy and stopped putting out regular work. One in particular that I liked and my best friend idolizes by buying all his crap J. Scott Campbell, he draws cover art for other artists books for Marvel etc and that's it. And the rest of the book doesn't match his level of detail and he makes more money doing just covers than drawing a entire book and it's just one image so takes less time.


Nothing like seeing a cover by Alex Ross, Scott Campbell, or Frank Cho, and then the inside art is done by some C-tier guy Laughing Then again, those last two get a lot of flak and blacklisted by modern comic writers and readers because they draw characters 'too sexy' so who knows how much work they get at the big two these days.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 3816
Location: Virginia, United States
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:20 pm Reply with quote
reanimator wrote:

FYI, I used to dig Adam Warren's Dirty Pair comics when I was a young anime fan in 90's, but I ditched his works because as I discovered manga that fits my taste. In my opinion, he gets manga style storyboarding and expressions really well, but I think he's still stuck on superhero genre which I'm not fan of.


I loved Adam Warren's Dirty Pair comics. Wished he kept up with it, but I love his Empowered series too.

If the art and story are great, especially the art for me, I don't care if it is manga or comic.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
reanimator



Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 1238
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:34 pm Reply with quote
TarsTarkas wrote:
reanimator wrote:

FYI, I used to dig Adam Warren's Dirty Pair comics when I was a young anime fan in 90's, but I ditched his works because as I discovered manga that fits my taste. In my opinion, he gets manga style storyboarding and expressions really well, but I think he's still stuck on superhero genre which I'm not fan of.


I loved Adam Warren's Dirty Pair comics. Wished he kept up with it, but I love his Empowered series too.

If the art and story are great, especially the art for me, I don't care if it is manga or comic.


I just found about Warren's Empowered series with quick Google search. He dropped off from my radar because I got preoccupied with latest anime of that time and his Dirty Pair and Bubblegum Crisis comics were already past their prime as 2000's rolled on.

Actually I'm starting to have interest in Walking Dead comics thanks to TV series. However their price and format is off-putting for me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
#884745
SubscriberSubscriber


Joined: 08 Jul 2018
Posts: 91
Location: Ikebukuro
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:21 am Reply with quote
When I'm saying something in Japanese, I'll say "I draw manga and write novels"
When I'm saying something in English, I'll say "I draw comics and write novels."

Now, the real issue is, should I do a full-color webtoon, or a black-and-white print comic, if I want to self-publish it in both English and Japanese?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group