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REVIEW: Mobile Suit Gundam Narrative


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Zeino



Joined: 19 May 2017
Posts: 567
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:52 am Reply with quote
Sounds exactly like what I was expecting really. And Kim is quite right to say it exist as mainly fan service for old-school Gundam fans because the honest and brutal truth is there really isn't that many new directions that UC time can go in anymore. Not that they'd see that as a problem

Also...

Quote:
As a side note, it's funny that Mobile Suit Gundam is popularly regarded as a “real robot” anime because of mass-produced Mobile Suits like the Zakus, when the series is filled with “super robots” that are capable of changing the tides of battle singlehandedly. That aspect felt even more prevalent in this film, which had only several identifiable pilots, making the scale of the conflict feel smaller even if the damage they were causing was massive. Narrative is over-the-top in a way that blurs the distinction between the two categories even further, so I'll be interested to see what the hardcore mecha fans say about this one.


Welcome to one of the chief lies of the fandom. Gundam has never been as realistic science fiction as it's fans like to think it is. That ship sailed as far back as Zeta Gundam when Newtype powers officially became magic. This is what makes G Gundam and fair amount of the other AU series superior in my eyes. They know that the concept of a real robot series is an convenient illusion and thus embrace the paradox of still being super robot at heart while taken the human drama they leaned from Tomino's efforts and bettering it.
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OldDirtyBastard



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:12 am Reply with quote
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The only thing I knew about Mobile Suit Gundam Narrative before I watched it was that hilarious key visual showing three characters striking an awkward pose together


The awkward key visual was based on the statue the Rape of the Sabine Women.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rape_of_the_Sabine_Women

I wonder if that was intentional in relation to the story
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Ajc228



Joined: 29 Dec 2015
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:50 am Reply with quote
OldDirtyBastard wrote:
Quote:

The only thing I knew about Mobile Suit Gundam Narrative before I watched it was that hilarious key visual showing three characters striking an awkward pose together


The awkward key visual was based on the statue the Rape of the Sabine Women.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rape_of_the_Sabine_Women

I wonder if that was intentional in relation to the story

How do you know the key visual is an allusion to The Rape of the Sabine Woman? Did a Sunrise staff member say this or are you just speculating?
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MarshalBanana



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:00 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
The action animation was solid, especially with the Mobile Suits. Although the Mobile Suits are rendered in CG
Why did they have 2D Gundams in the trailer, feels like false advertising.
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Ajc228



Joined: 29 Dec 2015
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:05 pm Reply with quote
MarshalBanana wrote:
Quote:
The action animation was solid, especially with the Mobile Suits. Although the Mobile Suits are rendered in CG
Why did they have 2D Gundams in the trailer, feels like false advertising.
I’m not sure if the Reviewer is articulating their point very well. I’ve seen the first 30 min of the film and most of the mech animation is 2d with a few shots of the Phenex in 3d(not unlike Unicorn). Unless the rest of the film is wildly different, I think there’s a good amount of 2d mech animation.
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MarshalBanana



Joined: 31 Aug 2014
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:15 pm Reply with quote
Ajc228 wrote:
MarshalBanana wrote:
Quote:
The action animation was solid, especially with the Mobile Suits. Although the Mobile Suits are rendered in CG
Why did they have 2D Gundams in the trailer, feels like false advertising.
I’m not sure if the Reviewer is articulating their point very well. I’ve seen the first 30 min of the film and most of the mech animation is 2d with a few shots of the Phenex in 3d(not unlike Unicorn). Unless the rest of the film is wildly different, I think there’s a good amount of 2d mech animation.
Oh well that's wonderful.
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Kicksville



Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Posts: 633
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:21 pm Reply with quote
I was hearing a good portion of the film was leftover Unicorn exposition dump, which is pretty silly, and it's sad to hear that crowds out the new characters to some degree. But, I didn't have terribly high hopes on this one to begin with.

I don't know that the UC timeline inherently doesn't have any more stories to tell, but it really hinges on creators doing something interesting and fresh. It sure sounds like Fukui's writing is leaning ever harder on UC Fanboy Detail stuff, full of timeline gap explanations rather than being much of its own story. Lore Maintenance can be fun on paper, but if that's what a new movie leans on...
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Fluwm



Joined: 28 Jul 2009
Posts: 175
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:24 pm Reply with quote
Sounds about what I expected: a mediocre story mostly salvaged by impressive animation and comfortably familiar tropes.

Though I'm not sure bout the power of newtypes only NOW being recognized--both Zeon and the Federation has high-profile newtype propaganda units, which game Char and Amuro some pretty major celebrity status, and subsequent newtypes have been almost just as high-profile. You'd think the Miracle of Axis would have convinced any remaining doubters.

It also doesn't seem to be exploring the Newtypes premise much, which is disappointing. A key irony of the original series, and most subsequent works, is that newtype abilities are not designed for combat, and using newtypes in combat is kind of antithetical to the core ideas of being a newtype. Granted, newtype abilities are seldom explored very much, but we're fast approaching late UC, where it's implied that technological advancements have mostly supplanted the distinct roles newtypes previously occupied, allowing newtypes to live "truer" lives of mutual understanding outside of the military. In F91 and especially Victory, we see more newtypes than ever before--but they're all civilians. And by Victory, the term newtype is so couched in militarism that it's fallen out of favor.

But NT seems to be following UC's example, and basically just rehashing the newtype stuff from MSG without adding anything new or exploring the concept from any interesting angles. For a series whose name is deliberately meant to evoke NewTypes, I hope NT can surpass UC and eventually provide us with more than just well-made fanservice.
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Lord Geo



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:52 pm Reply with quote
Kicksville wrote:
I don't know that the UC timeline inherently doesn't have any more stories to tell, but it really hinges on creators doing something interesting and fresh.


Sunrise could easily do "interesting & fresh" stories in the UC timeline, but the main problem is that there's no real money in going too far away from the 0079-0099 timespan. There could be new stories taking place in the the Cosmic Frontier Era of F91 & Victory Gundam, maybe do a new take on what F91 was supposed to be originally, or even go beyond Victory & create something that can replace G-Saviour (since most fans hate it; I'm fine with it, but we sadly don't know the entire story that was told for it), but fans in Japan (& possibly even worldwide) wouldn't want those stories. It's been proven with decades of productions that what fans support the most are stories told around that OG era of UC, and if you want to do anything too different then might as well make it an AU.

Only with these newest productions are we even starting to enter the post-0100 UC timeline, but it certainly feels like Sunrise is kicking & screaming about it by doing so as slowly as possible. It feels like if Sunrise could literally make up new numbers to keep them from reaching UC 0123 for as long as possible, then they actually would.
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:09 pm Reply with quote
Zeino wrote:

Welcome to one of the chief lies of the fandom. Gundam has never been as realistic science fiction as it's fans like to think it is. That ship sailed as far back as Zeta Gundam when Newtype powers officially became magic. This is what makes G Gundam and fair amount of the other AU series superior in my eyes. They know that the concept of a real robot series is an convenient illusion and thus embrace the paradox of still being super robot at heart while taken the human drama they leaned from Tomino's efforts and bettering it.


"Real robot" means the robot itself isn't super-powered. And no robot in the UC is. The power comes from the pilot. Even at its most out there, it's the Newtype abilities of the pilot, not the robot. The robot just channels NT power.

Also, lol at the thought of any of the AUs bettering Tomino's concepts
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forexjammer



Joined: 01 Dec 2017
Posts: 127
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:28 pm Reply with quote
For people wondering, the time travel aspect is just a dumb rumour made by Tokyosaurus. The movie doesn't imply any sort of hardcore timetravel.

Lord Geo wrote:
Kicksville wrote:
I don't know that the UC timeline inherently doesn't have any more stories to tell, but it really hinges on creators doing something interesting and fresh.


Sunrise could easily do "interesting & fresh" stories in the UC timeline, but the main problem is that there's no real money in going too far away from the 0079-0099 timespan. There could be new stories taking place in the the Cosmic Frontier Era of F91 & Victory Gundam, maybe do a new take on what F91 was supposed to be originally, or even go beyond Victory & create something that can replace G-Saviour (since most fans hate it; I'm fine with it, but we sadly don't know the entire story that was told for it), but fans in Japan (& possibly even worldwide) wouldn't want those stories. It's been proven with decades of productions that what fans support the most are stories told around that OG era of UC, and if you want to do anything too different then might as well make it an AU.

Only with these newest productions are we even starting to enter the post-0100 UC timeline, but it certainly feels like Sunrise is kicking & screaming about it by doing so as slowly as possible. It feels like if Sunrise could literally make up new numbers to keep them from reaching UC 0123 for as long as possible, then they actually would.


That's where Hathaway Flash comes in, it's not about Zeon anymore. Hopefully they tie in some Cosmo Babylonia foreshadows.
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Zeino



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:22 pm Reply with quote
The problem with going beyond the old and tired Federation vs Zeon conflict is that a other than F91, Crossbone and Victory, there is simply not much there to explore in Late UC. And for three things that we do have is A. a badly-rushed movie that Sunrise has zero interest in remaking. B. a manga-only sequal that despite constant fan-request, Sunrise also zero interest in animating and C. a complete and utter failure of a series that mostly killed off the UC Timeline until 2010 and that everyone involved in making including Tomino wants you to forget existed. And G-Reco and Turn-A close down alot of options for setting a new series even further in the future.

penguintruth wrote:

Also, lol at the thought of any of the AUs bettering Tomino's concepts


G Gundam did the environmental message better. Wing, 00 and IBO did politics better. 00 and Wing also did the theme of ending conflict through understanding one another better. X made better use of Newtypes as a message, Seed did cycle of hatred and revenge brought on by war better. And Turn A is by a Tomino who having overcame his personal demons of depression, misogyny and anger at the world and who most likely did watched G, Wing and X, acknowledges their more hopeful and idealistic outlooks as valid and worthwhile and embraces them. And as much as G-Reco is a total mess, it keeps that idealism. I'll give you Seed Destiny and AGE though.


Last edited by Zeino on Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Kicksville



Joined: 20 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:42 pm Reply with quote
Yeah, they announced a "UC NexT 0100 Project", so it seems they're pretty intent on moving the timeline along. I figure if they really thought going past that point would be a loser's game, they just wouldn't do it. Years ago fans over here were convinced they'd never bother with animated UC stories not adjacent to the One Year War, and then Unicorn came out and did great. So the precedent's already been set.

I don't personally care where whatever story is in whatever timeline as long as it's good. I mean, it's easy enough to say there's nothing more to be told in the later UCs until someone goes and does something new there. But if the only reason a show is set in that period is to muck around with nerd details and fill in gaps, whether that's in the late 0090s or the 0140s or wherever else, then I have doubts it'll be anything other than kibble to keep the fans buying than a real story. It sure sounds like that's what NT is, sadly - I feel like it's saying something that the most exciting of the upcoming UC slate is based on an old novel.
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meiam



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:41 am Reply with quote
Zeino wrote:
Quote:
As a side note, it's funny that Mobile Suit Gundam is popularly regarded as a “real robot” anime because of mass-produced Mobile Suits like the Zakus, when the series is filled with “super robots” that are capable of changing the tides of battle singlehandedly. That aspect felt even more prevalent in this film, which had only several identifiable pilots, making the scale of the conflict feel smaller even if the damage they were causing was massive. Narrative is over-the-top in a way that blurs the distinction between the two categories even further, so I'll be interested to see what the hardcore mecha fans say about this one.


Welcome to one of the chief lies of the fandom. Gundam has never been as realistic science fiction as it's fans like to think it is. That ship sailed as far back as Zeta Gundam when Newtype powers officially became magic. This is what makes G Gundam and fair amount of the other AU series superior in my eyes. They know that the concept of a real robot series is an convenient illusion and thus embrace the paradox of still being super robot at heart while taken the human drama they leaned from Tomino's efforts and bettering it.


There's two part to that, one is that it's more real robot than most of what came before it and second is that some of the side story like 8th MS team did do the grunt stuff more.

But yeah, I wish it was a lot more grounded, no more magic and anything. Maybe next alternate reality.
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Eivion



Joined: 26 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 2:32 am Reply with quote
Zeino wrote:
penguintruth wrote:

Also, lol at the thought of any of the AUs bettering Tomino's concepts


Wing, 00 and IBO did politics better.

It most certainly did not. Wing is a fun mess that never really makes much sense. The political aspects were especially poor. 00 feels about equal. IBO I agree with.
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