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This Week in Games - Kingdom Hearts III


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meiam



Joined: 23 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:25 pm Reply with quote
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Little did I know how essential these experiences would be. Rather than thinking of these titles as side stories, they're best regarded as parts of Sora's journey just like the main numbered entries and they're full of important details relevant to the central story.


And that's the main reason I don't really care about KH3, I haven't played any of the portable/mobile game and have no interest in doing so since the one I did play were severely inferior to the console version and I don't own every system.

At this point the lore is a convoluted non sense, full of retcon and plot hole. The keyblade started as a unique artifact that people fought over, now there's so many they must be selling them in bulk at costco. And I'm pretty sure everyone in the world is either Ansem or Aqua, or maybe both? Who knows anymore.

I mean dunkey did a recap: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8o1ieehttdA) which might sound like a joke but is actually mostly what factually happen in the games.
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Greed1914
It's Over 9000!It's Over 9000!


Joined: 28 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:27 pm Reply with quote
At least some of the uproar about the Epic store getting exclusives is coming from people that don't want to have to install yet another client to play only certain games. Basically, they would like to be able to choose which to use. It's pretty similar to what we're seeing now that major networks and studios are trying to build their own streaming platforms, rather than share their content.

I don't necessarily blame companies for switching since Epic is offering a much better deal. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing Steam have to step up in ways that are more customer and game-maker friendly since a lot of their arbitrary application of rules, such as restrictions on pages for VNs even referencing that you could go to the company's site and get the adult version patch, seemed like something that was only possible when they felt like they were the only way for small companies to get eyes on their games.
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prime_pm



Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 2020
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:50 pm Reply with quote
Yeah you know what? I only really played the first Kingdom Hearts; I'll just stick to the wikis on all the rest. I do not have the time or energy to sit through every single incarnation of this series across five different systems just to witness a death battle between Mobius and Uncle Remus. It was fun the first time, I pretty much got the picture.

Won't be surprised if all the cutscenes are already on Youtube.
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Morry



Joined: 26 Jun 2016
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:53 pm Reply with quote
meiam wrote:

And that's the main reason I don't really care about KH3, I haven't played any of the portable/mobile game and have no interest in doing so since the one I did play were severely inferior to the console version and I don't own every system.

As someone who's only played Birth by Sleep and watched the rest as cutscenes, but I definitely considered it superior to KHII combat. Not to mention there have been console rereleases so it's not like you can't play/watch them.

Anyhow, I agree the series has written itself into a convoluted mess. The moment I heard Nomura claim KHIII was just the end to the Xehanort saga, I rolled my eyes. More casual fans have tried to brush over this title as like some experiential fever dream, but it's just romantic sophistry. The series has always followed a basic shounen formula without much depth to it and just kept raising the twists and stakes until we reached the FF critical mass that is III's endgame. It's just flash and bombast at this point.

But hey, at least it's fun.
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Beatdigga



Joined: 26 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:37 pm Reply with quote
KH3 is an incomprehensible mess that can’t even bother to take advantage of the massive amount of franchises the mouse now owns, and makes about as much sense as the finale of Lost. Neither side makes up for the others deficiencies.
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Scion Drake



Joined: 25 Nov 2017
Posts: 257
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:43 pm Reply with quote
Jeeez the hate KH gets, too funny. Laughing

Ah looking forward to play III.... after I finish the rest of the stuff.
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AiddonValentine



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 1507
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:07 pm Reply with quote
-Metroid Prime 4: Yeah, that was pretty big, though nothing new for the series if you know about the original Prime's history (Retro was essentially a circus until Nintendo whipped them into shape). And I'm still confident this will be out before the FFVII Remake

-DBZ: Ugh, get me Kale and Caulifla already for FighterZ. Also interested in the RPG, but I want to see how it'll be different. Recreating the series with games like Legacy of Goku is nothing new, so it'll be interesting what CC2 brings to the tables

-Epic: Yeah, I'm getting really, REALLY tired of Steam and am all for them taking out a bit of Valve's market share, if only to knock them out of complacency and be a little more serious.

-KHIII: This is the Metal Gear Solid of Squaresoft i.e. horrendously convoluted, full of retcons, melodrama, opaque lore, and made by a man who clearly takes it more seriously than it should be
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LightningCount



Joined: 04 Mar 2018
Posts: 73
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:29 pm Reply with quote
The thing about Retro Studios is we don't know who's working there now...

The Metroid Database website reported on those not there anymore who worked on the Metroid Prime series: "This includes people like former producer Bryan Walker, game director Mark Pacini, design directors Karl Deckard, Mike Wikan, Lead Artist Todd Keller, and engineering leads Jack Matthews and Andy O’Neil." IGN.com listed a few more since then, too, like Kynan Pearson, level designer; Marco Thrush, engineer; Elben Schafers, principal artist; Frank Lafuente, engineering director; Mark Haigh-Hutchinson, senior engineer.

All who are left, reportedly, are: Michael Kelbaugh, President & CEO; Kensuke Tanabe, Metroid Prime Series Producer (who also produced Federation Force); and Dax Palotta, Principal Animator.

Its since been reported (though not officially confirmed) that Retro made a convincing pitch to take over the project, though. So, we'll have to wait and see. I'm hoping for something more ambitious than just a Metroid Prime clone. It's time to do more 3rd-person 3D like Breath of the Wild.
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Terry Lang
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Joined: 10 Jan 2017
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:53 pm Reply with quote
Thanks for that youtube link, made me laugh. Don't know if I'll end up playing KH3 yet.
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phia_one



Joined: 15 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:28 pm Reply with quote
To be completely honest, I never cared about the KH story. I keep coming back to play around in Disney themed worlds.
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Zeino



Joined: 19 May 2017
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:58 pm Reply with quote
I'm very much in the "story of KH3 is a big honking letdown" camp, and honestly I'm just going to pretend now that the games ended back with KH2. And it's a shame, because there is good stuff in here even in just the story department, including the Disney integration, but like... the stuff that's bad, is almost disgustingly bad for me because it's so... ugh.

spoiler[The treatment of some of the original characters, primarily Kairi, is just... gross. Super gross. I'm sick of waiting around for Kairi to get to do something impressive that isn't just vague "Princess of Heart power" stuff and actually lets her become a worthy Keyblade fighter, but it seems pretty clear that that just isn't happening. Or if it is, it's happening way too late to be worth it for me. And fridging her just to force Sora to perform a heroic sacrifice... Double ugh.

Organization XIII being largely a rehash is disappointing, and calling attention to it doesn't make it any less disappointing. The fact that they have too many members after apparently having tried at least three times to obtain a thirteenth is frustrating.

And worst of all, after building up Xehanort as the big threat for so many games, going out of your way to make him an unrepentant bastard in BBS and especially 3D, only to then turn around and not only try to portray himself, his Heartless, and his Nobody sympathetically is also gross. The dude possessed someone else for ten years, sacrificed other people to exile, split someone's heart in half, trying to treat him with anything other than "you're a monster" is just... wrong. Absolutely wrong. And it's hard to say that this feels like the end of the "Xehanort Saga" when it looks like one of the main bad guys was not only manipulating Xehanort, but has been around since the third game in this ten or eleven game saga? Nothing about that feels like the end of a chapter, especially not when we've been waiting so long for III to close the door on this Xehanort thing.]
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AiddonValentine



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 1507
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:40 pm Reply with quote
Zeino wrote:
I'm very much in the "story of KH3 is a big honking letdown" camp, and honestly I'm just going to pretend now that the games ended back with KH2. And it's a shame, because there is good stuff in here even in just the story department, including the Disney integration, but like... the stuff that's bad, is almost disgustingly bad for me because it's so... ugh.

spoiler[The treatment of some of the original characters, primarily Kairi, is just... gross. Super gross. I'm sick of waiting around for Kairi to get to do something impressive that isn't just vague "Princess of Heart power" stuff and actually lets her become a worthy Keyblade fighter, but it seems pretty clear that that just isn't happening. Or if it is, it's happening way too late to be worth it for me. And fridging her just to force Sora to perform a heroic sacrifice... Double ugh.

Organization XIII being largely a rehash is disappointing, and calling attention to it doesn't make it any less disappointing. The fact that they have too many members after apparently having tried at least three times to obtain a thirteenth is frustrating.

And worst of all, after building up Xehanort as the big threat for so many games, going out of your way to make him an unrepentant bastard in BBS and especially 3D, only to then turn around and not only try to portray himself, his Heartless, and his Nobody sympathetically is also gross. The dude possessed someone else for ten years, sacrificed other people to exile, split someone's heart in half, trying to treat him with anything other than "you're a monster" is just... wrong. Absolutely wrong. And it's hard to say that this feels like the end of the "Xehanort Saga" when it looks like one of the main bad guys was not only manipulating Xehanort, but has been around since the third game in this ten or eleven game saga? Nothing about that feels like the end of a chapter, especially not when we've been waiting so long for III to close the door on this Xehanort thing.]


spoiler[Yeah, when I heard about Kairi I was FURIOUS. She actually did more in KHII than this. In KHII she at least got to go places and even fought alongside Riku in a cut scene. But then again, I feel this is a pattern of behavior with Nomura. He just doesn't seem to be interested in writing female characters that actively contribute to his story lines .
Also, a bit of a fan pet peeve, but where are the FF characters? Seriously, where did they go? Not even Cloud or Sephiroth show up, so there goes that whole arc with those two.

It's just so frustrating. Nomura keeps just piling stuff on to create mystery but the mystery either isn't worth it or obtuse. Somewhere Tetsuya Takakashi and Yasumi Matsuno are going "Dude, settle down and SAY IT PLAINLY!" He's basically become the gaming equivalent of JJ Abrams in that he makes all this hype and then it's really not that big of a deal.]
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Scion Drake



Joined: 25 Nov 2017
Posts: 257
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:51 pm Reply with quote
Zeino wrote:
I'm very much in the "story of KH3 is a big honking letdown" camp, and honestly I'm just going to pretend now that the games ended back with KH2. And it's a shame, because there is good stuff in here even in just the story department, including the Disney integration, but like... the stuff that's bad, is almost disgustingly bad for me because it's so... ugh.

spoiler[The treatment of some of the original characters, primarily Kairi, is just... gross. Super gross. I'm sick of waiting around for Kairi to get to do something impressive that isn't just vague "Princess of Heart power" stuff and actually lets her become a worthy Keyblade fighter, but it seems pretty clear that that just isn't happening. Or if it is, it's happening way too late to be worth it for me. And fridging her just to force Sora to perform a heroic sacrifice... Double ugh.

Organization XIII being largely a rehash is disappointing, and calling attention to it doesn't make it any less disappointing. The fact that they have too many members after apparently having tried at least three times to obtain a thirteenth is frustrating.

And worst of all, after building up Xehanort as the big threat for so many games, going out of your way to make him an unrepentant bastard in BBS and especially 3D, only to then turn around and not only try to portray himself, his Heartless, and his Nobody sympathetically is also gross. The dude possessed someone else for ten years, sacrificed other people to exile, split someone's heart in half, trying to treat him with anything other than "you're a monster" is just... wrong. Absolutely wrong. And it's hard to say that this feels like the end of the "Xehanort Saga" when it looks like one of the main bad guys was not only manipulating Xehanort, but has been around since the third game in this ten or eleven game saga? Nothing about that feels like the end of a chapter, especially not when we've been waiting so long for III to close the door on this Xehanort thing.]


Alright so the games decent at least, good to know, thanks.

Cause anything that inspires this much venomous hatred must not be that bad.
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Pidgeot18



Joined: 19 Jul 2015
Posts: 83
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:53 am Reply with quote
Kingdom Hearts: it's a more complex story than Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicle, where spoiler[the main character is the son of the reincarnation of his clone, all three of whom have the same name to make them easy to tell apart].
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
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Location: Another Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:39 pm Reply with quote
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Here's what I don't get: people seem to love getting angry at Steam (most recently, they pulled a bunch of visual novels off the storefront again for nebulously defined content violations), but now that there's a genuine competitor popping up, they're suddenly demanding companies’ loyalty.


Oh, I can explain that. There are two reason behind it.

1. The first is that the people complaining something is not on Steam are different from the people who are complaining about Steam. You're seeing two sides of a Broken Base here. It's like with Smash Bros., where people complained about the existence of Subspace Emissary in Brawl, calling it a waste of space and development time and money. Then when Smash Bros. Wii U/3DS didn't have one, people complained that there wasn't a story mode to sink their teeth into.

2. People are complaining because Steam isn't an ideal shopping experience for them. That ideal would be every game they want available on Steam and exactly as how they imagine it to be. As someone who's worked retail for some time, I can say with certainty that lots of customers (perhaps a majority of them) have an image of the ideal way the business should be working (usually unrealistic). Of that, a large amount of them get upset when the business doesn't fit that ideal image.

meiam wrote:
At this point the lore is a convoluted non sense, full of retcon and plot hole. The keyblade started as a unique artifact that people fought over, now there's so many they must be selling them in bulk at costco. And I'm pretty sure everyone in the world is either Ansem or Aqua, or maybe both? Who knows anymore.


Well, in a sense, a lot of long-running shonen series can become like that too. One Piece can feel convoluted and overwhelming if you haven't read or watched the entirety of it, and while it's all in one format, it's still a monstrous undertaking.

Tetsuya Nomura is, at his core, a product of his environment.

prime_pm wrote:
Yeah you know what? I only really played the first Kingdom Hearts; I'll just stick to the wikis on all the rest. I do not have the time or energy to sit through every single incarnation of this series across five different systems just to witness a death battle between Mobius and Uncle Remus. It was fun the first time, I pretty much got the picture.

Won't be surprised if all the cutscenes are already on Youtube.


Extra Play is currently going through the entire series right now. The host, Dan Floyd, is the former host of Extra Credits, who is both a Disney fan, a Square-Enix fan, and a 3-D animator, so he has a lot of insight into some things that the designers assume the player will know and why character movements make you feel certain things about the characters (such as Sora's energetic jumps in the first game).

Morry wrote:
Anyhow, I agree the series has written itself into a convoluted mess. The moment I heard Nomura claim KHIII was just the end to the Xehanort saga, I rolled my eyes. More casual fans have tried to brush over this title as like some experiential fever dream, but it's just romantic sophistry. The series has always followed a basic shounen formula without much depth to it and just kept raising the twists and stakes until we reached the FF critical mass that is III's endgame. It's just flash and bombast at this point.

But hey, at least it's fun.


Part of why Nomura didn't say it was the end of the series is because he has to play by Disney's rules. If Disney wants another game, Nomura's going to make another one. The other reason is that Nomura himself may want to continue Sora's adventures, as people have grown rather fond of Sora as a character. What Nomura is saying is that any future Kingdom Hearts games will have a different antagonist. (Much like how any Legend of Zelda game set in the Wind Waker timeline but after it cannot have Ganondorf or Ganon as the antagonist, as canonically he was defeated for good in Wind Waker.)

Frankly, I don't see how it would end here, really, considering the Kingdom Hearts franchise has become one of the most profitable video game franchises tied to Disney, if not THE most. It's also bringing in a lot of revenue for Square.

Scion Drake wrote:
Alright so the games decent at least, good to know, thanks.

Cause anything that inspires this much venomous hatred must not be that bad.


Indeed. I've heard some advice from people who have run entertainment companies say that when people are throwing vitriol around, that means your fans are passionate and paying attention. The worst you could have is if people are silent about it all, because it means they've stopped caring and the passion is gone (or was never there in the first place).

I've also noticed some heightened negativity here at Anime News Network compared to elsewhere online. In this case, I've seen criticism of Kingdom Hearts III elsewhere, but I'd see more people praise this game as everything they dreamed it would be. (it's not just KH3, but pretty much anything that's popular. There must be a lot of hipsters here. Either that, or the people, well, enjoying KH3 and coming here are keeping to themselves, and the ones who are angry are the ones who come here to complain.)
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