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ANNCast - Do You Mean "Anime" Anime or like, Actual Anime?


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Swissman



Joined: 11 May 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:06 pm Reply with quote
A live action Once Piece would be fun to watch if it were made with lots of love and silliness like these parts made by french anime supernerds back in 2005 ;-)

What is "anime"? ... Easy: It's animation for japanese made mostly by japanese.

Don't make it too difficult to define it. Think of the main target demografic. The same goes for "manga".

Agressive Retsuko: Of course it's an anime. Just because it's streamed on Netflix doesn't mean it isn't "anime". The target audience are still the japanese.


Last edited by Swissman on Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:07 pm; edited 3 times in total
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VerQuality
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:48 pm Reply with quote
"It's okay if it evolves, but it does have to make sense." - quote of the discussion for me
I think a big part of the problem is how much disdain there has been for the American animation industry for decades (Disney being -until recently- a notable exception). So any attempt to market animation outside the very narrow traditional niche of American animations (the mentioned "adult" comedies) is difficult to pitch to the marketing execs, and the general public, without using a different term (although I'd still argue animation is far enough away from "cartoon" that it should be enough).
When it comes to anime as a product of Japan, I'm not sure that I fully buy Zac's objections on the basis of 'gatekeeping.' Anime's perspectives, philosophies, and stories are naturally filtered though a Japanese cultural lens, and I think that's something that we as anime fans, and as fans of world animation generally, should celebrate.
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angelmcazares
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:04 pm Reply with quote
I am of two minds on regard to Netflix being involved in anime. On the one hand I think it is a net positive that they are injecting lots of money into the anime industry. But as a BD/DVD collector, I fear that the great majority of anime licensed and produced by Netflix (Evangelion included) might never receive a physical release.

Last edited by angelmcazares on Sun Feb 02, 2020 11:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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NormanS



Joined: 15 Aug 2014
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:06 pm Reply with quote
To me, anime is simply defined as having a large chunk of the project's production committee is Japanese.

I think its important to keep the label as anime as being "Japanese" because it helps identifying a subsection of the large umbrella "animation". Like Jpop/Kpop/Cpop under the Pop music umbrella.

On another note, i think The Legend of Korra should be distinguished as south korean animation because its one of the strongest productions and helps brings focus to the korean animation industry. Having Korra being labeled as "anime" would misdirect people who were interested in Korra into looking for (and supporting) Japanese productions instead of Korean productions.
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Jen Bigby



Joined: 20 May 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:21 pm Reply with quote
VerQuality wrote:
I think a big part of the problem is how much disdain there has been for the American animation industry for decades (Disney being -until recently- a notable exception). So any attempt to market animation outside the very narrow traditional niche of American animations (the mentioned "adult" comedies) is difficult to pitch to the marketing execs, and the general public, without using a different term (although I'd still argue animation is far enough away from "cartoon" that it should be enough).
When it comes to anime as a product of Japan, I'm not sure that I fully buy Zac's objections on the basis of 'gatekeeping.' Anime's perspectives, philosophies, and stories are naturally filtered though a Japanese cultural lens, and I think that's something that we as anime fans, and as fans of world animation generally, should celebrate.


The low opinion of American animation is precisely why companies like Netflix call shows anime when they have nothing to do with Japan. "Anime" is cool, "cartoons" are not. Anime is a cultural phenomenon and popular and people and companies want to capitalize on it. Comics went though a similar phase back during the manga boom when "OEL manga" was a thing. It was important for people to know those weren't comic books, they were manga, just like the titles you loved at the time like Inuyasha and Naruto. It always was and still is a marketing gimmick.

As far as fandom goes, the whole argument always seemed like it was just pedants purposely trying to start conflict over the word even though they knew exactly what you meant when you said anime. Thankfully the trend is all but gone aside from the occasional Netflix production. Most networks and staff seem content with being called cartoons now and the American industry has found it's own identity again and every other show being made isn't trying to capitalize on anime anymore like in the 2000s.
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CatSword



Joined: 01 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 6:07 pm Reply with quote
Hmm, I wonder how they'll start this podcast-

"WHAT IS ANIME?"

Of course! Laughing
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BodaciousSpacePirate
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Joined: 17 Apr 2015
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 6:32 pm Reply with quote
CatSword wrote:
Hmm, I wonder how they'll start this podcast-

"WHAT IS ANIME?"

Of course! Laughing


I felt really nostalgic when I heard it. Laughing
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Beatdigga



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 6:57 pm Reply with quote
Live action One Piece with a bigger budget than Game of Thrones.

That’s the kicker. People expect this to succeed, (or it’s the world’s biggest scam and we’re living in The Producers). Think about all that money. Think about the fact that this show is supposed to be spoken of in the same breath as The Mandalorian and The Witcher. Then have a good laugh at it all.
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kotomikun



Joined: 06 May 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:59 pm Reply with quote
Beatdigga wrote:
Live action One Piece with a bigger budget than Game of Thrones.

That’s the kicker. People expect this to succeed, (or it’s the world’s biggest scam and we’re living in The Producers).

The Producers, like any work of fiction, was partly based on reality. Any multi-billion-dollar industry contains some amount of laundering schemes; show business is no exception. Whether they intend for this thing to flop, I don't know, but whatever happens, some people are going to make a lot of money. Nothing really "loses" money, after all; it's gotta go somewhere.

That said, the general cluelessness about the compatibility of animated concepts with live-action applies here, too. You'd have to be pretty out-of-touch to think One Piece could be transplanted into live-action and not end up looking unbelievably ridiculous. But quite a lot of rich people in the movie/TV realm fit that description. So either they actually are that out-of-touch, or it's a Producers plan. 50/50.
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Treeborn



Joined: 30 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:55 am Reply with quote
I think of anime as "Japanese style animation," and, as was pointed out in the podcast, there are various different aesthetics to anime. Ping Pong, SAO, a Silent Voice, Ga Rei, Ghibli and so on. Western style animation also has various different aesthetics. There's the Steven Universe aesthetic, Simpsons, Klasky Csupo, Ed Edd n Eddy, DC Universe, Hey Arnold and the list goes on. Just because certain regions popularized a certain style doesn't mean other regions can't utilize it - a company here can produce a series that looks like The World God Only Knows in the same way that a company in Japan can produce a series that looks like South Park. Both should still be considered anime and Western style animation, respectively, and not dismissed simply because of nationality.
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gridsleep
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:09 am Reply with quote
Anime is "anime" because most Japanese people cannot pronounce "cartoon" properly without tons of practice. It's that simple. Don't make a Federal case out of it.
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Nonaka Machine Gun B



Joined: 03 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 7:38 am Reply with quote
[pushes up nerd glasses and rubs hands together]

Re: Dead people dying in BLEACH. The series uses a reincarnation aspect; if you die in one plane of existence(the living world/Soul Society) you are reborn in the other. So the "stakes" are losing your consciousness and physical form. In the early parts of the show, the hook was keeping souls between worlds in balance.
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MarshalBanana



Joined: 31 Aug 2014
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:49 am Reply with quote
The part of Anime production being partly done in Korea, overlooks the concept of outsourcing. Simpsons has always been animated in Korea, it is still an American animated show.

Saying that a show is Anime, limits what it can be, as you are trying to fit it into a square peg. How can a title stand out when you're trying to conform to the abstract idea of what Anime supposedly is.
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Ryo Hazuki



Joined: 01 Jan 2008
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Location: Finland
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 11:11 am Reply with quote
As far as I know, no one has ever tried to call The Matrix a Hong Kong movie, despite being influenced by them and even having Yuen Woo-ping as the martial arts choreographer in it. Either anime means Japanese animation or some specific style. I don't think it can mean both, since Japanese animation has several different styles.
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El Hermano



Joined: 24 Feb 2019
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Location: Texas
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 11:24 am Reply with quote
gridsleep wrote:
Anime is "anime" because most Japanese people cannot pronounce "cartoon" properly without tons of practice. It's that simple. Don't make a Federal case out of it.


Just in case you're not being facetious, Japan actually does use the word cartoon. The Cartoon Network channel exists there, after all. It's not as widespread as anime is here, since the western animation fandom is fairly niche in Japan, but the biggest convention dedicated to western animation in Japan is called Toox Mix. So Japan actually does differentiate between the two mediums, at least the more knowledgeable people and dedicated fans who do like American works. Panty and Stocking was advertised in Japan using the word カートゥーン to describe it's influence, and Yu-Gi-Oh specifically called Pegasus' monsters トゥーン monsters . And we know Hiroyuki Imaishi and Kazuki Takahashi are knowledgeable about American animation and comics.
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