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INTEREST: Ikeda Riyoko Production Responds to Claims Moschino's Fashion Line Copied Rose of Versaill


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Brand



Joined: 30 Jan 2006
Posts: 1024
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:58 am Reply with quote
Why do people keep doing this and thinking they can get away with it in today's global market like no one is going to notice. This looks so bad too, like 90's hookups level ripoff level. Ugh.
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druv



Joined: 17 Nov 2020
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:14 pm Reply with quote
Brand wrote:
Why do people keep doing this and thinking they can get away with it in today's global market like no one is going to notice. This looks so bad too, like 90's hookups level ripoff level. Ugh.

I guess it depends on what you mean by "get away with it". I mean, some anime fans are upset, but I don't see them taking it down or having to pay actual money to the Rose of Versailles rights-owners.
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Lady Multi



Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 647
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:28 pm Reply with quote
sure....that's definitely not a copy....just like that one "trendy" clothing store definitely didn't steal artwork from DeviantArt and slap it on shirts and get sued about it...and just like Nick Simmons didn't rip off (plagiarize) a whole host of Shonen manga to make his own. And just how Simba wasn't original designed as a white lion in a jungle and Disney prevented the animated Leo Jungle Emperor movie from being localized in theaters (a cease and desist letter btw).
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Kadmos1



Joined: 08 May 2014
Posts: 12980
Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:45 pm Reply with quote
The line between being similar or inspired by and flat-out plagiarizing or similar is so blurred at times.
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kawaiibunny3



Joined: 10 Aug 2008
Posts: 518
Location: Houston, Texas
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:32 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
"we [Ikeda Riyoko Production] thought that their way of referencing the designs was so crude that not only the creator but fans of the manga would be shocked,"


I'm laughing at this really polite way to say "we're not pressing charges because the art's so ugly it's not even worth it."
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Cardcaptor Takato



Joined: 27 Jan 2018
Posts: 3014
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:46 pm Reply with quote
While one could argue there are too many similarities between Kimba and The Lion King, many of the claims made on the Internet are either heavily exaggerated or simply not true, like the supposed Kimba lawsuit which ANN covered in great detail. animenewsnetwork.com/the-mike-toole-show/2019-09-03/.150186 There are other stronger cases one could point to of plagiarism related to anime to make the same point. As an example, Naoko Takeuchi frequently based her character designs in Sailor Moon on real world high class fashion that she never gave any proper credit to. And the composer of the Kai version of DB plagiarized his music which resulted in him being fired later on.
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Mizuki-Takashima



Joined: 10 Sep 2011
Posts: 194
Location: Central Illinois, USA
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:21 am Reply with quote
Child: "I want some Rose of Versailles"
Parent: "We have Rose of Versailles at home"
The Rose of Versailles at home: MoschinoCrudeDrawings.jpeg
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CrownKlown



Joined: 05 May 2011
Posts: 1705
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:38 pm Reply with quote
No offense but her style is hardly unique, looks like every early generic should Manga from aim for the ace to Utena and so on. Then if the throw in the fact but are referencing a similar time period sure they will look similar .

There are some unique art style you can peg to individuals or groups like ghibli relatively simple style , toriyama and his pretty angular features , oda and his cartoonisly bad style etc . But Ikeda style is just generic shoujo and she did a work set in fictional Europe . She isn't going to take action because she probably wouldn't win.
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ATastySub



Joined: 19 Jan 2012
Posts: 217
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:49 pm Reply with quote
CrownKlown wrote:
No offense but her style is hardly unique, looks like every early generic should Manga from aim for the ace to Utena and so on. Then if the throw in the fact but are referencing a similar time period sure they will look similar .

There are some unique art style you can peg to individuals or groups like ghibli relatively simple style , toriyama and his pretty angular features , oda and his cartoonisly bad style etc . But Ikeda style is just generic shoujo and she did a work set in fictional Europe . She isn't going to take action because she probably wouldn't win.

There's a lot here that's just blatantly wrong, but that's to be expected when you're just kinda looking for reasons to defend what happened here and wildly throwing out whatever. The part that is impossible not to laugh at is the fact you think her style isn't "unique" is because of how influential it is and how many things reference or copy her style. Truly amazing job here.
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LadyKuzunoha



Joined: 18 May 2011
Posts: 76
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:09 pm Reply with quote
CrownKlown wrote:
No offense but her style is hardly unique, looks like every early generic should Manga from aim for the ace to Utena and so on. Then if the throw in the fact but are referencing a similar time period sure they will look similar.


Putting aside how one conflates the artstyle of Rose of Versailles with the one in Utena (yes, both "shoujo" style and have a lot of flowers/roses, but still noticeably different), I think you might need to look at the first tweet in the article again. Note the overall image composition in addition to the artstyle that you claim is "generic". There are enough similarities between the two pictures that frankly, coincidence is out of the realm of possibility: it looks like a trace job that someone erased and redrew details out of to try and muddle the fact that they lifted it.
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AkumaChef



Joined: 10 Jan 2019
Posts: 710
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:26 pm Reply with quote
CrownKlown wrote:
No offense but her style is hardly unique, looks like every early generic should Manga from aim for the ace to Utena and so on.

The reason for that is that Rose of Versailles is one of the biggest cornerstones of shoujo manga in general. It's not that Ikeda draws "generic shoujo" it's more like generic shoujo artists copy her. Her art style's influence on the genre is massive because she was one of its most important early artists.

Quote:
Then if the throw in the fact but are referencing a similar time period sure they will look similar .

That's actually part of the problem. The red dress that she is drawn in doesn't really match the time period. Google historical paintings of Marie Antoinette and you will see that it's very rare for her to wear red. And there's the other obvious similarities well beyond the artistic style: same pose, same framing, the details are nearly identical. So given these two choices:
1) Someone at Moschino ripped off Ikeda's artwork
2) Two totally different artists chose to draw Marie Antoinette; by pure coincidence both happen to use the same art style, pose, unusual dress color choice, and put nearly identical details into their works

No, I'm not buying #2. Occam's Razor.
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paulIsia



Joined: 20 Feb 2020
Posts: 3
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:18 pm Reply with quote
Ironic given how Ikeda herself has all but plagiarized her contemporary artist, Yamagishi Ryoko to recreate her historical manga about Shoutoku Taishi except with no-homo. No wonder they won't be pressing charges for 'crude imitations'.
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lostrune



Joined: 09 Jun 2012
Posts: 296
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:37 pm Reply with quote
Brand wrote:
Why do people keep doing this and thinking they can get away with it in today's global market like no one is going to notice. This looks so bad too, like 90's hookups level ripoff level. Ugh.


A lot of times people do get away with it though, even people who trace or copy from people in their own industry.

Kadmos1 wrote:
The line between being similar or inspired by and flat-out plagiarizing or similar is so blurred at times.


Think it basically boils down to a simple formula of

If: I like it? Then: inspired by / homage / love letter to
If: I dislike it? Then: rip-off / redundant / carbon copy of
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CrownKlown



Joined: 05 May 2011
Posts: 1705
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:04 pm Reply with quote
It has been a while since I studied in law and not sure how it would play out with art styles, but in trademark and copyright law if your mark becomes so generic as to be common place then you lose protection . Kleenex is a good example. So I don't think it would be a stretch for a court to apply that same reasoning to style .

Also most of the suits and cases that went in favor as being plagerized were literal copies of an existing picture of work . I this company would have to basically take a scene from the work and just tweak. So like I said in doubt she has a case.

I don't get why people are getting so offended, her art is terrible , so is tezuka, and God forbid we bring up Jojos okama art style. A work can still be great and have lasting impact even if ypu don't blindly praise every aspect of it . No one is going to sit hear an argue Mario Bros from the nes or ff7 are aesthetically pleasing despite the leaps at the time.

But i see much like in any field media etc you will have some zealots that get offended by any criticism of their beloved work like they made it.

Peace out.
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AkumaChef



Joined: 10 Jan 2019
Posts: 710
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:08 pm Reply with quote
CrownKlown wrote:

I don't get why people are getting so offended, her art is terrible , so is tezuka, and God forbid we bring up Jojos okama art style. A work can still be great and have lasting impact even if ypu don't blindly praise every aspect of it . No one is going to sit hear an argue Mario Bros from the nes or ff7 are aesthetically pleasing despite the leaps at the time.


Whether or not a work is pleasing has nothing to do with whether or not this is a case of plagiarism; those are entirely separate questions and they are not mutually exclusive.

I personally don't like her art style. And it doesn't offend me that someone copied it--when your work is famous that happens. But as to the unrelated question of whether or not this is plagiarism? Sure looks like it to me. I think we all owe it to stand up for the rights of others--whether we like the work or not--because the alternative is nobody standing up for our rights when they are being challenged.
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