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GAME: Pokémon Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl


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Vent



Joined: 22 Aug 2009
Posts: 293
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:06 pm Reply with quote
Fundamentally disagree that a day one patch is a "misstep". That's how game development works in the modern era: everything to some degree is coming in hot and gets a very big update before you can even play it. If you want to talk about it as a wider industry wide issue then that's a conversation you can have, but chastising BDSP specifically for it is weird. And it wasn't "released" unfinished. The people playing before the day one patch either got the game before street date or had outright pirated a leaked copy so like...what?

I know that's a weird thing to zero in on but it kind of sums up my feeling on the article as a whole. I don't care that the author doesn't like the game ,it's whatever and most of the complaints are valid, but it has the tone of a tweet reply to some unrelated Nintendo announcement that's screeching about Dexit "Disgust", "Spat in the face of", "actively robbed" and so on. There's talk of gameplay improvements but never any elaboration on it besides the following Pokemon (which I'd argue isn't really a gameplay improvement) but a three paragraph set up for The Music's Bad felt necessary?

It all makes for a review that reads more like a set-up for a score punchline. "This game is an abomination that clubbed my childhood to death like a baby seal. C-."


Last edited by Vent on Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Bvick00



Joined: 17 Jan 2022
Posts: 34
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:09 pm Reply with quote
Ahh man, that disappointing to hear Sad . It's sad to see the current state of these newer Pokemon games lately. Hopefully Pokemon Legends : Arceus will be a step up from these games.
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JoelBurger



Joined: 14 Oct 2011
Posts: 248
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:15 pm Reply with quote
Vent wrote:
Fundamentally disagree that a day one patch is a "misstep". That's how game development works in the modern era: everything to some degree is coming in hot and gets a very big update before you can even play it. If you want to talk about it as a wider industry wide issue then that's a conversation you can have, but chastising BDSP specifically for it is weird. And it wasn't "released" unfinished. The people playing the day one patch either got the game before street date or had outright pirated a leaked copy so like...what?


There's a difference between "coming in hot", and the game apparently being so unfinished that they couldn't even have the right music and an opening cutscene when the game went gold. And yes, it effectively released unfinished. Years from now when Switch online functionality inevitably folds, all that will be left is what's on the cartridge.

Also, love the typical corporate defender mentality of "Everything you said is valid, but you're a big meanie in how you said it so I'll pretend there's something wrong with it".
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Vent



Joined: 22 Aug 2009
Posts: 293
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:20 pm Reply with quote
JoelBurger wrote:
Vent wrote:
Fundamentally disagree that a day one patch is a "misstep". That's how game development works in the modern era: everything to some degree is coming in hot and gets a very big update before you can even play it. If you want to talk about it as a wider industry wide issue then that's a conversation you can have, but chastising BDSP specifically for it is weird. And it wasn't "released" unfinished. The people playing the day one patch either got the game before street date or had outright pirated a leaked copy so like...what?


There's a difference between "coming in hot", and the game apparently being so unfinished that they couldn't even have the right music and an opening cutscene when the game went gold.

And yes, it effectively released unfinished. Years from now when Switch online functionality inevitably folds, all that will be left is what's on the cartridge.


Considering how rough a lot of non-day 1 patched games are weird music and a missing cutscene is not particularly noteworthy.

I also believe a game review should be a review of the actual game you are currently playing and not something sent back in time from the year 2036.

I think it says a lot that you jump right to "Corporate defender" as an insult. I don't own the game. I'm not going to play the game because by all accounts it's aggressively mediocre at best. I haven't bought a Pokemon game since, what, Ultra Moon? I just think the review is not very well written.


Last edited by Vent on Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Aura Ichadora



Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 2119
Location: In front of my computer
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:34 pm Reply with quote
Since I never played the original games, I went into BDSP with an open mind. Honestly, I thought it was a lot of fun! Clunky at times, yes, but fun. I haven't done much of the post-game stuff yet, other than trying to gather what I need for Ramanas Park and working on the National Dex from what I can do on my own while I wait for Pokemon Home to be updated to allow for transfers, but the main game hasn't been bad for me. Although, I will admit that it's not my favorite Pokemon game. That right still exclusively belongs to Heart Gold/Soul Silver. I will also admit that I actively enjoyed playing Sword and Shield more so than BDSP, and similarly Sun/Moon and its Ultra sequels. But I won't say that BDSP is a bad game by any means. It's still fun and was totally worth buying and playing, but I could see why people wish it had more to offer, especially given the content I know that existed in Platinum.
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JoelBurger



Joined: 14 Oct 2011
Posts: 248
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:52 pm Reply with quote
Vent wrote:
Yeah TPC really pays the big bucks for people willing to go on to a dead internet forum for a niche anime news site and call their latest release "aggressively mediocre at best". If you work in "better than watching paint dry I guess" you get a $5 gift certificate for Target.


I would hope you get something, since otherwise all you'd be doing is going on a dead internet forum for a niche anime news site to cry into the void about a reviewer (whose voice you seem to care a lot about despite being from said dead site) saying mean things about Pokemon. Sounds like a huge waste of one's limited time, but luckily you must be getting something out of it.
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ThatGuyWhoLikesThings



Joined: 04 Jul 2013
Posts: 933
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:10 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
The new party-wide exp sharing system is impossible to turn off


I fail to see how this is a problem. Unless you are going out of your way to battle every single trainer and wild pokemon you encounter, there is no reason for you to be overleveled in the first place. The new Exp Share system only removes the tedium of leveling any party member that may be lagging behind. Even with the new system always active, 90% of the time I've been about where the game expects you to be in terms of levels, and the other 10% I've actually been underleveled.

In D&P, battling every trainer you encountered was to make certain your team was sufficiently leveled. Now, it's more for the purposes of leveling up newer pokemon or pokemon in your pc that you haven't been using very much.

As for some of the content in Platinum, while I never played much of the post-game and thus am not familiar with the Battle Frontier in that game, I *did* play the Battle Frontier in Emerald and thought it was the most frustrating and unfun element in any mainline Pokemon game I've ever played, so if Platinum's version was anything like that, I'm very glad they didn't bring it back here lol[/i]
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FilthyCasual



Joined: 01 Jun 2015
Posts: 1701
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:41 pm Reply with quote
Vent wrote:
Fundamentally disagree that a day one patch is a "misstep". That's how game development works in the modern era: everything to some degree is coming in hot and gets a very big update before you can even play it. If you want to talk about it as a wider industry wide issue then that's a conversation you can have, but chastising BDSP specifically for it is weird.
A review of a game should mention that game's flaws, whether those flaws are shared by other games or not.

ThatGuyWhoLikesThings wrote:
Quote:
The new party-wide exp sharing system is impossible to turn off


I fail to see how this is a problem. Unless you are going out of your way to battle every single trainer and wild pokemon you encounter, there is no reason for you to be overleveled in the first place. The new Exp Share system only removes the tedium of leveling any party member that may be lagging behind. Even with the new system always active, 90% of the time I've been about where the game expects you to be in terms of levels, and the other 10% I've actually been underleveled.

In D&P, battling every trainer you encountered was to make certain your team was sufficiently leveled. Now, it's more for the purposes of leveling up newer pokemon or pokemon in your pc that you haven't been using very much.

As for some of the content in Platinum, while I never played much of the post-game and thus am not familiar with the Battle Frontier in that game, I *did* play the Battle Frontier in Emerald and thought it was the most frustrating and unfun element in any mainline Pokemon game I've ever played, so if Platinum's version was anything like that, I'm very glad they didn't bring it back here lol[/i]
Why would you not battle every trainer? Battling and filling the Pokedex are game goals, and battling trainers accomplishes both. Plus they tend to have funny dialogue. As for wild Pokemon, you don't get EVs, Pokerus, or the satisfaction of your Pokemon defeating others by running. Heck, if you're dodging tall grass at every turn you're not even going to encounter a shiny or new Pokemon for your dex. The EXP Share being forced disincentivizes trainers who want a challenge from engaging with critical gameplay. That's bad. If it's anything like in X & Y - and judging by the mention of affection, it is - then it's trivial to end up with your team being drastically overleveled immortal gods. Also, don't most people tend to run a squad of six throughout the game? Unless you're trying to level a freshly hatched Pokemon, a late-caught pseudo-legendary, or a replacement in a nuzlocke, you generally don't have to level extraneous Pokemon in the main game.

The Battle Tower in Diamond and Pearl was fun. The Battle Frontier in Platinum was great fun.

I'm sad to hear that this remake sucks, but at least I didn't pay $60 to find out.


Last edited by FilthyCasual on Mon Jan 17, 2022 4:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Rogural



Joined: 28 Nov 2017
Posts: 42
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:54 pm Reply with quote
I thought the patching up was a preventative method for datamines and leaks that are all too common with Pokemon games. Definitely sad that the actions of a few cause punishment for the majority since there's no full on card copy of everything.

The game itself was fine. The end was definitely the highlight and I appreciate what they've done to the Elite 4 and Champion, those were good fights. It's definitely the most fun I've had with a Pokemon game in the past few iterations, but I also think that's because it had a solid base as a remake and it'd be hard to completely mess that up.

Very cautiously optimistic for Legends Arceus, it could be great, but I don't think it'll solve or address concerns or worries about how the games have been lacking lately. Might be a fun distraction to it though.
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Kurohei



Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 567
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 4:15 pm Reply with quote
A game doesn't have to be hard to be good, but BDSP ain't easy, their difficulty doesn't exist. The game basically plays itself. Cyrus was suppose to be the big bad guy and his battle was six against four, and my guys over leveled him. I literally couldn't lose unless I tied to. I even refused to use healing items through the whole game. The only good part was the Pokemon League. Finally you had plan to win. I hear there's Youtubers who are moding the game to make it more balanced. Once that's out I'd want to give the game a second chance. I want to enjoy Pokemon, that's why I want the games to be good.
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Raneth



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 263
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 4:55 pm Reply with quote
Hearing about the change to Super Contests makes me very sad. I really enjoyed Super Contests in the original, and making a new "Show Pokemon" would have been a fun goal in the remake since the difficulty of everything else is so low. To hear that Super Contests are so radically changed (into a rhythm game of all things, really? I hate rhythm games) sealed the deal on my decision not to buy.
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Eddy564



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 340
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:06 pm Reply with quote
I’ve been enjoying the game. Anyone still on the fence after reading the review, just know that tons of people have been enjoying it. And the games have otherwise been getting pretty decent reviews.

Highlights for me include the Grand underground and the post-game content like the island that you an access once you’ve attained all the HMs. The Poketch is also a god send to have all of your HMs in a useful place so you don’t have to assign them to your Pokémon, which used to be quite restrictive in the past.

As someone that enjoyed Super Contests in the original, I was sad to see them changed and not for the better. That’s probably my biggest disappointment with the game, personally.
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meiam



Joined: 23 Jun 2013
Posts: 3232
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:06 pm Reply with quote
ThatGuyWhoLikesThings wrote:
Quote:
The new party-wide exp sharing system is impossible to turn off


I fail to see how this is a problem. Unless you are going out of your way to battle every single trainer and wild pokemon you encounter, there is no reason for you to be overleveled in the first place. The new Exp Share system only removes the tedium of leveling any party member that may be lagging behind. Even with the new system always active, 90% of the time I've been about where the game expects you to be in terms of levels, and the other 10% I've actually been underleveled.

In D&P, battling every trainer you encountered was to make certain your team was sufficiently leveled. Now, it's more for the purposes of leveling up newer pokemon or pokemon in your pc that you haven't been using very much.

As for some of the content in Platinum, while I never played much of the post-game and thus am not familiar with the Battle Frontier in that game, I *did* play the Battle Frontier in Emerald and thought it was the most frustrating and unfun element in any mainline Pokemon game I've ever played, so if Platinum's version was anything like that, I'm very glad they didn't bring it back here lol[/i]


If your leveling a pokemon to fill out the pokedex with their evolution you'd much rather all the exp go to that pokemon (or spread across 2) rather that spread out over 6.
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vidjamouse



Joined: 11 Jun 2020
Posts: 21
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:15 pm Reply with quote
Vent wrote:
I just think the review is not very well written.


Curious about your criticisms of the review if you don't mind sharing them. My main one is that it feels long-winded and repetitive at times, but I consciously weighed that against my desire to talk about all the problems I had with it rather than to just say "game bad don't play." Let me know what you think.

meiam wrote:
If your leveling a pokemon to fill out the pokedex with their evolution you'd much rather all the exp go to that pokemon (or spread across 2) rather that spread out over 6.


The fastest way to fill out the Pokedex and unlock post-game content in BDSP is to battle every trainer you see as you progress through the game. If you do that, you'll come out of the Champion Battle having met every pokemon in the region. Moreover, taking away options from the player is never a good idea. People who want it on should be able to turn it on and people who don't shouldn't have to. I think that the Exp All would be a great reward for progressing through a bulk of the game, like beating all of the gym leaders for example
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Top Gun



Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 4087
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:28 am Reply with quote
I don't particularly care about the mainline Pokemon games either way, but I want to single something out from this review:

Quote:
Unlike animation, video games are in large part a disposable medium. Games once hailed as era-defining breakthrough titles upon their release often become antiquated and awkward within a little less than a decade.


This is one of the worst takes I've ever heard in something purporting to be a piece of games journalism. If you believe that games are inherently "disposable" and become "antiquated and awkward" in a handful of years, then you're either playing the wrong games, or you genuinely don't care about the medium as a whole. The very best games are every bit as timeless as the very best films, or songs, or novels, or paintings, or any other creative work. Case in point: it was only this past year that I played Super Metroid, a universally-beloved classic, for the first time. And what surprised me the most was not how excellent the game obviously was, but how shockingly modern it felt. If you didn't know its history or have its franchise trappings, it absolutely could have been a modern indie hit. In the same way, there are legions of Mario fans out there who will swear up and down that SMB 3 remains the greatest game in the entire franchise. The original DOOM, the granddaddy of all FPS games, still has an incredibly active mapping and modding scene. None of the fans of these franchises, or many others, would consider them "disposable." The recent "remaster" trend in the industry has in many respects been a negative one, as it often compels gamers to re-buy games they already own...and it becomes flat-out destructive when the original versions of said games are usually removed from storefronts. It's an active erasure of the medium's history.

And really, you want to talk about "antiquated" games? The mainline Pokemon series is, at its core, using essentially the same basic mechanics from 25 years ago, mechanics that in some regards were already starting to show their age at the time Red/Blue came out. In the year 2022, they're straight-up archaic. Perhaps focus more on how this series has failed to evolve significantly beyond its roots (including perpetuating the extortionary practice of releasing the exact same game twice per generation and convincing its fans they need to shell out for both) before making erroneous generalizations like this.
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