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The Skeptic's Guide to Monogatari


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Gemnist



Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 1706
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:03 am Reply with quote
As someone who hasn’t seen Monogatari, another thing that is definitely keeping people away is the lack of dubs. Die-hard Monogatari fans will always tell you that the series should never get a dub due to its fast-paced dialogue and deep references to Japanese culture, but I just don’t think that’s a good excuse. Time and again we’ve seen “un-dubbable” shows like Nichijou and Gintama (specifically the Canadian version) get the dub treatment and flourish, and the audiobook got dubbed so there’s even a precedent. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not beholden to a dub, but it would definitely increase the franchise’s audience.
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BERROT



Joined: 03 Aug 2022
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:38 am Reply with quote
So basically a reason i shouldn't watch the Monogatari series is because of the fanservice my oh my what a great way to convince me my good sir
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louis6578



Joined: 31 Jul 2013
Posts: 1675
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 10:04 am Reply with quote
Honestly, some advice. It's very draining to binge it. Watch one arc per sitting and you should be fine though.
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Spastic Minnow
Bargain Hunter
Exempt from Grammar Rules


Joined: 02 May 2006
Posts: 4390
Location: Gainesville, FL
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 10:12 am Reply with quote
Of course, one of the true barriers is if you like to own the shows you watch.
...Complete collection of used BD boxes sold yesterday on eBay for.... $1,150
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Doctorkev



Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 26
Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 11:30 am Reply with quote
Spastic Minnow wrote:
Of course, one of the true barriers is if you like to own the shows you watch.
...Complete collection of used BD boxes sold yesterday on eBay for.... $1,150


If you don’t mind region B blu-rays, then the UK releases by MVM are an order of magnitude cheaper…

https://www.anime-on-line.com/2964-Deal-of-the-Week

You can currently pick up all 6 volumes of the final season for £60 total (£10 each)
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HarveyJeckyll



Joined: 03 Aug 2022
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 11:52 am Reply with quote
BERROT wrote:
So basically a reason I shouldn't watch the Monogatari series is because of the fanservice my oh my what a great way to convince me my good sir


It is not a simple specie of fanservice. It is controversial fanservice with a pedophilia and incest context to create controversy among the community, the point of the article is to let you think about these elements before you decide whether it is the type of fanservice you are willing to set your eyes on.
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AksaraKishou



Joined: 16 May 2015
Posts: 1321
Location: End of the World
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 12:59 pm Reply with quote
HarveyJeckyll wrote:
BERROT wrote:
So basically a reason I shouldn't watch the Monogatari series is because of the fanservice my oh my what a great way to convince me my good sir


It is not a simple specie of fanservice. It is controversial fanservice with a pedophilia and incest context to create controversy among the community, the point of the article is to let you think about these elements before you decide whether it is the type of fanservice you are willing to set your eyes on.


Doesn't actually have any pedophillia or incest, so eh
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psipsy



Joined: 01 Jul 2005
Posts: 48
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 1:47 pm Reply with quote
Spastic Minnow wrote:
Of course, one of the true barriers is if you like to own the shows you watch.
...Complete collection of used BD boxes sold yesterday on eBay for.... $1,150


That's really close to how much the full set would have originally cost. I got mine incrementally from 2014 to 2020 and avoided the sticker shock. I don't think I would have bought the whole collection at once after it was all released.

On a sidenote, I tried estimating how much Manygatari would have cost if it was made back in the 90s, and thus released on LaserDisc. I came up with a rough figure of about $3500. In 1998 dollars.
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Spastic Minnow
Bargain Hunter
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Joined: 02 May 2006
Posts: 4390
Location: Gainesville, FL
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 2:25 pm Reply with quote
psipsy wrote:
Spastic Minnow wrote:
Of course, one of the true barriers is if you like to own the shows you watch.
...Complete collection of used BD boxes sold yesterday on eBay for.... $1,150


That's really close to how much the full set would have originally cost. I got mine incrementally from 2014 to 2020 and avoided the sticker shock. I don't think I would have bought the whole collection at once after it was all released.

On a sidenote, I tried estimating how much Manygatari would have cost if it was made back in the 90s, and thus released on LaserDisc. I came up with a rough figure of about $3500. In 1998 dollars.


Yeah, I was going to say it was a "bargain."
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thepepin



Joined: 22 Jun 2022
Posts: 19
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:16 pm Reply with quote
Monogatari had huge ratings in Japan, at the time racked up some of the best anime DVD sales in history, and its massive led to a ton of other NisiOisin works getting adapted. That is A. way more than "popular amongst certain subsets of anime fandom" and B. renders "has never broken into “mainstream” anime acceptance" to be not a matter of particular importance. Who defines "mainstream anime acceptance" anyway? Especially in the context of when this anime was actually released ... 2009 when Crunchyroll was still an illegal download site, Netflix's streaming channel was barely a year old, Toonami had been cancelled etc?

As for the fanservice, I think that we are forgetting that this era - the 2000s - was the fanservice one. Not anything like the current landscape where you may get one mildly ecchi title a season. This was when Queen's Blade, To Love Ru Darkness, Manyuu Hikenchou, Seikon No Qwaser, Freezing, Sekirei, Ikki Tousen, Kanokon, Rosario To Vampire etc. were huge and even milder stuff like Kiddy Grade and Nogizaka Haruka no Himitsu was packed with panty shots. In that era they even added more fanservice in the anime adaptation than was in the source material in order to juice ratings and DVD sales, as was the case with Rosario To Vampire, Demon King Daimao, Minami-Ke (especially the second season) and Rail Wars. I guess one wants to overlook exactly why Masami Oobari got so much work for so long, what was responsible for maintaining Studio Gainax's post-Evangelion success (more Mahoromatic, Magical Shopping Arcade Abenoashi, This Ugly Yet Beautiful World, Panty and Stocking with Garterbelt than His and Her Circumstances, and even milder stuff like Gurren Lagaan and Medaka Box was packed with it) etc. In the Monogatari era domestic DVD sales were far more important to the anime industry than foreign streaming revenue, and fanservice was what drove it.

That being said, the fanservice in Monogatari ... really wasn't there? I am unfamiliar with the source material, but I can definitely say that the anime adaptation was excellent at making the viewer THINK that something was being seen or done when it really wasn't. The viewer never actually SAW anything, even by PG-13 standards. There was a bunch of jokes and innuendo but none of it was ever acted on beyond high school senior Koyomi's romance with high school senior Hitagi, and even there the physical parts was merely alluded to but never depicted onscreen. For example while the mutual physical attraction between Koyomi and his sisters was constantly referenced, all that ever came of it was his kissing them (Karen in a nonsexual context and Tsukihi by accident.) Similarly, despite all the flirting with Shinobu and Yotsugi all that ever happened was Koyomi taking a bath with Shinobu and flipping Yotsugi's skirt. There was more actual racy content in one episode of - say - Joshikousei: Girl's High than all 100 of Monogatari.

Now what was actually over-the-top in Monogatari was the violence and gore. Beheadings, disembowelment, you name it. Such as the scene where Koyomi goes to a convenience store to get a bento for Shinobu and returns to see her eating a guy's heart. Yeah, Koyomi's brushing Karen's teeth was WAY more off-putting than that right?
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vampiyan



Joined: 25 Oct 2021
Posts: 63
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:38 pm Reply with quote
thepepin wrote:
Monogatari had huge ratings in Japan, at the time racked up some of the best anime DVD sales in history, and its massive led to a ton of other NisiOisin works getting adapted. That is A. way more than "popular amongst certain subsets of anime fandom" and B. renders "has never broken into “mainstream” anime acceptance" to be not a matter of particular importance


When people say mainstream I assume they mean the casual non-anime fan who knows only the most basic shows like Dragonball Z and Sailor Moon, usually through the dubs only. Maybe they watch Toonami and know a few more shows.

For the fanservice, I'll say none of that is controversial to most anime fans. Anyone who takes issue with those things is probably in the wrong hobby considering how prevalent it is. Lots of us are perfectly fine with it. Enough to make Monogatari one of the best selling and most successful anime of all time at least Laughing Everyone I know praises Monogatari for it's excelling animation and attention to detail when it comes to the fanservice scenes and girls.
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TF



Joined: 09 Nov 2003
Posts: 344
Location: Belgium
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:59 pm Reply with quote
I've got this series on my "want to see" list.
Since there are some people here who have watched it, what order whould I go with? The internet is a bit dubious about it. I've found chronological order list and as well as release order lists and people claiming that you should watch it chronological and other people saying that watching it that way ruins your experience.

What would you guys advice me? Should I go with chronological order or just watch it in the release order?
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Covnam



Joined: 31 May 2005
Posts: 3071
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 4:31 pm Reply with quote
This is a series in my backlog I definitely want to watch at some point. But it does feel like a lot to dive in to and definitely a series you have to be in the right mood for.

Spastic Minnow wrote:
Of course, one of the true barriers is if you like to own the shows you watch.
...Complete collection of used BD boxes sold yesterday on eBay for.... $1,150


I'm sure that was still better than what Aniplex originally charged Laughing

Jokes (maybe) aside, a nice priced collection would definitely help. If I could pick up the whole thing at once for a fair price (like what Sentai or Funi/Crunchy would charge), then I'd definitely pick it up and be one step closer to finally watching this!

R2 has much better pricing, but I feel like if I pick up a R2 player I'd fall down a buying rabbit hole that I just don't have the shelf space for Laughing
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meiam



Joined: 23 Jun 2013
Posts: 3259
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 4:45 pm Reply with quote
I remember watching the first season when it aired and... meh. I pushed trough because I really liked the visual, but my memory of the story was boring character talking in circle about nothing, also pedophilia for some reason.

It's one of those show that almost certainly wouldn't have been remembered if it wasn't for the production value and the puerile attempt at fan service/button pushing. Unless the next season/movie are leaps and bounds above the first season as far as writing, I'd skip this. Or maybe watch in Japanese without subtitle and assume they're saying interesting things.
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TheBossman



Joined: 23 Jun 2015
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 4:56 pm Reply with quote
TF wrote:
What would you guys advice me? Should I go with chronological order or just watch it in the release order?


Picking up this inactive account to say this...

Novel order. Chronological order might be good on a rewatch, but it is in no way how somebody should watch Monogatari for the first time. Broadcast order is fine (it's close to how I watched the series the first time), although none of the delays were done for artistic purposes. They were just that: delays. Here's a quick guide to the original (and best!) order.
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