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NEWS: 3 Japanese Men Arrested, Charged with Uploading Anime


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DmonHiro



Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 3278
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:44 am Reply with quote
Are things getting serious? Maybe, maybe not. It would help to know how many people were getting convicted. I mean...this is the first arrest in one month right?
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samuelp



Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 2132
Location: San Antonio, USA
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:07 am Reply with quote
The fact is anyone still using "winny" to share files in Japan is a fool and a dinosaur.

Most people have long since moved to share (as mentioned in the article), and there is no evidence that share's anonymity has ever been broken (although I hear it's theoretically possible).

Furthermore, even if Share gets compromised there's already a third, even more anonymous network whose name I won't mention that the japanese would move to.

The only effect this might have is in scaring some of the episode cappers out there. But, kind of like fansubbers, when one stops another will take his/her place. It's a losing battle, and really mostly for publicity, I think.

Chances are these people (with the exception of the virus guy) will get fines of around 5,000 10,000 thousand dollars and be released. On the other hand, in the US, a woman gets sued by the RIAA for sharing a few songs and has to pay $222,000 dollars!

I mean, the CREATOR of winny only got a $12,000 fine.
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fxg97873



Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 211
Location: Houston, TX
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:01 am Reply with quote
samuelp wrote:
The fact is anyone still using "winny" to share files in Japan is a fool and a dinosaur.

Most people have long since moved to share (as mentioned in the article), and there is no evidence that share's anonymity has ever been broken (although I hear it's theoretically possible).

Furthermore, even if Share gets compromised there's already a third, even more anonymous network whose name I won't mention that the japanese would move to.

The only effect this might have is in scaring some of the episode cappers out there. But, kind of like fansubbers, when one stops another will take his/her place. It's a losing battle, and really mostly for publicity, I think.

Chances are these people (with the exception of the virus guy) will get fines of around 5,000 10,000 thousand dollars and be released. On the other hand, in the US, a woman gets sued by the RIAA for sharing a few songs and has to pay $222,000 dollars!

I mean, the CREATOR of winny only got a $12,000 fine.


Share got compromised about a year ago. It's as unsafe as winny and there's even a program available (a free lite version as well) that will collect data on each node (IP, Data).

But yes, there is a program that has succeeded it.
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PonSquared



Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 132
Location: Lost in the Catskills
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:38 am Reply with quote
Quote:
As it is currently written, Japan's Copyright Law only prohibits unauthorized uploaders. It expressly allows people to download for private use, which is why prosecutions in Japan have almost exclusively targeted uploaders.


Best news EVER!

Quote:
The Japanese government is pushing a ban on downloads as well, despite receiving thousands of messages from citizens opposing the ban.


Worst news EVER!
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Fallout2man



Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Posts: 274
Location: San Diego, CA
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:08 am Reply with quote
Why is it that everyone Japan busts seems to be using Winny? It makes me wonder why people even use it at all if that's what all the news is about. I guess it's a culture thing or something. I remember over here when the lawsuits were going people kept jumping ship from program to program every year or so. (I've been following the whole peer to peer battles in the news since the days of napster and metallica.)
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Shadowrun20XX



Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 1908
Location: Vegas
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:47 am Reply with quote
Banning Japanese downloads,is the outrageous thing,Japan needs, to stop piracy.What is meant by,ban downloads,though?I want to hear their definition.Most above 40,(excluding ANN forums jockies)refuse to acknowledge,or even learn the ways of current technology.Severing everyones connection,would be a more simple route,sure,but I believe it would hurt(innocence),more than it would help(Copyright holders). Agreed,something must be done,but putting a ban on the area is an overreacting,display of power.They really need to work on getting rid of cell torrents.

This has all been said before,and is nothing new.
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ilikehotaznz



Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:21 am Reply with quote
//going on filesharing rant...

Suing people for digitally transmitting data is not the answer to the filesharing debacle. Over 15 million Americans alone engage in filesharing-- what are they going to do, sue all of them? Artists want everyone to be able to view their works, and digital hyperdistribution allows that. The only problem is that there hasn't yet been a viable economic business model for digital hyperdistribution of copyright works.

I think a global taxpayer-funded collective licensing regime as a mechanism that would fairly compensate artists and rights holders for P2P filesharing is a better way. The more popular their works, the more they are compensated, so all the entertainment industries would be fighting over a larger piece of this pie. The governments of the world need to get together at their next international trade conference and make this a reality before it's too late.

The recording industry and motion picture association have been going after low-hanging fruit, instead of going after the real pirates-- the people trying to profit from their work.

I'm surprised that an attorney general hasn't yet gone after the **AA under RICO statutes (racketeering), because what they are engaging in is a form of racketeering, and is more illegal than any minor copyright violations. It is only a matter of time before we start seeing realistic solutions—one that let people consume content however they want, wherever they want, on the device that they want, while compensating the rights holders.

They also haven't been able to convince people that copying is stealing, or even what is legal and what is not. The amount of copyright laws have become so bloated that like the tax code, it is close to impossible for a single individual to understand or even care about the law.

It's also disconcerting when one considers the enormous amount of money the rights holders spend to lobby senators and congressmen to write laws in their favor. Copyrights started with a 14 year lifecycle, and thanks to lobbying from the rights holders have been extended to 90+ years, and they are trying to extend them into infininity. During your lifetime, you may not see anything enter the public domain. Is this not a serious problem?

As a final note, I only hope for the best for the innocent victims of the filesharing debacle. These are people who have been placed in show trials and nailed to a cross. Shouldn't we be better than the communists? We will see a solution to this problem within the next few years, and hopefully everyone who was damaged by the **AA will be refunded.

//end of filesharing rant


Last edited by ilikehotaznz on Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:33 am; edited 4 times in total
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ilikehotaznz



Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:24 am Reply with quote
Shadowrun20XX wrote:
Banning Japanese downloads,is the outrageous thing,Japan needs, to stop piracy.What is meant by,ban downloads,though?I want to hear their definition.Most above 40,(excluding ANN forums jockies)refuse to acknowledge,or even learn the ways of current technology.Severing everyones connection,would be a more simple route,sure,but I believe it would hurt(innocence),more than it would help(Copyright holders). Agreed,something must be done,but putting a ban on the area is an overreacting,display of power.They really need to work on getting rid of cell torrents.

This has all been said before,and is nothing new.
You sound like the people that tried to destroy and ban Gutenberg's printing press. They claimed it was a work of the devil. The internet is the largest printing press concievable, and the countries of the world need to sit down at their next international trading conference and divise a way for people to download AND for artists to be compensated for their work. What you cannot do is put the filesharing genie back into the bottle. Impossible.
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Moomintroll



Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 1600
Location: Nottingham (UK)
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:41 am Reply with quote
ilikehotaznz wrote:
I think a global taxpayer-funded collective licensing regime as a mechanism that would fairly compensate artists and rights holders for P2P filesharing is a better way.


Who exactly would administer this global licensing regime? And how would they enforce it?

Quote:
The more popular their works, the more they are compensated, so all the entertainment industries would be fighting over a larger piece of this pie.


How do you determine what's been downloaded and in what quantities?
And why should the people that download little or nothing have to pay the same tax as those with six hard drives full of downloaded media?

Quote:
The governments of the world need to get together at their next trade conference and make this a reality before it's too late.


I'm sure they'll get right on it... Rolling Eyes
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mufurc



Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 612
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:02 am Reply with quote
Fallout2man wrote:
It makes me wonder why people even use it at all if that's what all the news is about. I guess it's a culture thing or something.

It's not a culture thing. People who still use winny usually don't know better or are not tech-savvy (geek) enough to change to Share or its successor. Downloading Share is not easy (at least it wasn't easy back then) if you don't know where to look, and the third software is still in development stage, and has a not particularly user-friendly interface that many people find confusing. People use winny because it's convenient, and they hope they won't get caught. And, well, sometimes they get caught.
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ilikehotaznz



Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:07 am Reply with quote
Moomintroll wrote:

Who exactly would administer this global licensing regime? And how would they enforce it?

How do you determine what's been downloaded and in what quantities?
And why should the people that download little or nothing have to pay the same tax as those with six hard drives full of downloaded media?

I'm sure they'll get right on it... Rolling Eyes
These are good questions.

1) While tracking what people are downloading wouldn't be perfect, it would be a lot easier to track than what people are watching on television or listening to on the radio, because of network logs that can be examined without violating anyone's privacy. As soon as downloading becomes standard and accepted, groups that preform like nielsen media ratings can work to determine what is being consumed, what is popular, and the percentage of each cut.

And why should the people that download little or nothing have to pay the same tax as those with six hard drives full of downloaded media?

2) This comment is a valid argument, but the argument relies on venues for entertainment staying stagnant. We are coming to a boiling point, where 30-second advertisments no longer have the effect they used to have. What's eventually going to happen is television will be distributed digitally and on-demand, and time slots will become a thing of the past.

I will refer you to the UK, where citizens pay 125 pounds a year in order to support the BBC-- the rest of the world is slowly shifting towards this type of economic model for several reasons:

a) Downloading through fileshareing, youtube, and other digital networks. Also, wireless internet connectivity is going to make filesharers harder, if not impossible to hunt down (the **AA's nightmare.)

b) Technologies such as DVR's, PVR's, Tivo's, and other recording devices.

c) The entertainment industry will collapse if there is not a solution to the above problems. You can joke around and pretend to roll your eyes, but this is a serious problem. There is an obvious social and cultural benefit to having Japanese entertainment, American entertainment, British entertainment etc. It is also economically beneficial if the industry stays afloat, even if it eventually becomes an artifical industry supported by tax dollars.

The age of the 30-second advertisment is coming to an end. It is becoming too easy for people to skip over, to edit out, to ignore 30-second advertisments. Channel flicking has evolved into consumers skipping over advertisments alltogether.

Personal recordings and skipping over advertisments are just as damaging to the entertainment industry as is filesharing. The only reason that the entertainment industry is suing people for filesharing and not people for recording is because they can. If they could sue people for recording, they would, but the supreme court decided that time-shifting was legal, so they have no argument to make.

If the entertainment industry could have it's way, they would force people to sit down, shut up, and watch what's on. That's not how it works.


Last edited by ilikehotaznz on Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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minakichan



Joined: 12 Nov 2003
Posts: 1105
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:23 am Reply with quote
So Males A and B are only charged with uploading a single episode? I mean, I suppose they probably did upload others, but being charged for just one if kind of extreme. What's next, prosecuting for uploading licensed images or fanart?
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ilikehotaznz



Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:29 am Reply with quote
minakichan wrote:
So Males A and B are only charged with uploading a single episode? I mean, I suppose they probably did upload others, but being charged for just one if kind of extreme. What's next, prosecuting for uploading licensed images or fanart?
Perhaps. These are show trials designed to scare people into digitally distributing copyrighted content, and these types of trials should be illegal.

What the governments of the world and the rights holders of the world don't understand is that change has occured, and has left them behind. Two of these Japanese men, the exception being the virus writer, are innocent, and are simply colateral damage as a result of the government and rights holders failure to adapt to new methods of distribution. On the other hand, the one who wrote the virus should obviously be prosecuted.

I think that most people would agree that we need change. What people don't seem to understand, is that change comes from the bottom up. Change doesn't come from the top down. Only average people like you and I can force the industry to make change, and I only hope that the number of people downloading increases until change is made.


Last edited by ilikehotaznz on Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:36 am; edited 2 times in total
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Fallout2man



Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Posts: 274
Location: San Diego, CA
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:33 am Reply with quote
mufurc wrote:
It's not a culture thing. People who still use winny usually don't know better or are not tech-savvy (geek) enough to change to Share or its successor. Downloading Share is not easy (at least it wasn't easy back then) if you don't know where to look, and the third software is still in development stage, and has a not particularly user-friendly interface that many people find confusing. People use winny because it's convenient, and they hope they won't get caught. And, well, sometimes they get caught.


Why not use an American or european developed application like say a bit torrent or gnutella client with a japanese translation though? Most software these days is written with unicode support built in and if popular enough has translations that can at times number into the hundreds of languages.
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crilix



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 208
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:38 am Reply with quote
minakichan wrote:
What's next, prosecuting for uploading licensed images or fanart?
That should've happened a long time ago from a pragmatic standpoint. The doujin industry, while not in its entirety based on other copyright works, is worth around 15% of the total "otaku" market (anime, Japanese games, figurines etc.). That's a lot of money that people are throwing at an alternative industry, no matter how you look at the situation or the principles that industry is built on.

But it's too late to do that now because the public would take it as an assault on the fandom and just ignore the prosecutors' products.
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