Forum - View topicVampire Knight Guilty.
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JacobC
ANN Contributor
 Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
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I guess this could be merged with the Vampire Knight thread, but its title and subject are kinda...it was more about the availability of the first series, and I didn't know if reviving that was a great idea, since it's a non-issue and this is a new season. So this could be merged with the old thread, but ANYHOO...
Vampire Knight Guilty Picking up where the first thirteen episode season left off, Yuuki is conflicted about her feelings for Kaname in light of Zero's desperate situation. Zero himself is hiding the fact that he is freed from his descent into madness, at the cost of becoming a full vampire with Kaname's gift of blood. Kaname himself is scheming something involving an uprising against the purebloods' greatest enemy. With tensions on the rise and dangerous assassins lurking from all sides for Zero as a vampire and a hunter, Yuuki may have to make a choice that will change her life as a prefect. Will she become a vampire herself, fulfilling her love to Kaname at last? Or can Zero save her from such a fate, even if it means facing his dubious lifesaver, the most powerful pureblood of all, and sacrificing everything for unrequited love... I am completely fangirling over this series (as I do about any well-done reverse harem show) and episode one aired a few days ago. The OP and ED alone suggest a darker storyline even than what has preceded...certainly more violent and sensual. It was really interesting on many fronts, and I felt like they squished a lot into twenty minutes. I'll add more, I guess, when more episodes come out and other people see them too! 
(Pretty vampires, pretty vampiric men...  )
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marie-antoinette
 Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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I haven't had a chance to see it yet, since the group whose fansubs I prefer aren't done yet. But I finally got to see the OP and it looks amazing. I wonder if they'll do the same thing they did last season, where they changed the OP to reflect the current storyline. I hope they do, it was really neat.
I cannot wait to see my beloved Zero again. I have missed him, even though it's only been a few months. Edit: Okay, I've watched the episode now. OMG, I love it so much. My inner fangirl will probably be squeeing all day. I know this show isn't perfect, but it's such a great guilty pleasure and I love it so very much. The only thing I'm not happy with this episode is the spoiler[almost kiss scene, because that was used as a cliffhanger in the manga and it worked so much better than having it shown right away that it didn't happen.] And another EP that is just so beautiful, and actually has decent animation too which is unusual for EPs in general. I think I'm going to need to see if I can get one of the singer's CDs, because I just love her sound. |
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living_puppet
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I think that would have killed me, lol. I was disappointed, but not surprised.
Agreed. I'm not sure how I feel about the new OP yet. I feel like it's missing something, but I'm not sure what exactly. It could be that I'm just used to the previous one. It does have a more serious tone to it and less action. I like the bit at the end with Chairman Cross pulling down his hair - I haven't read the manga yet, but I'm hoping we get to learn more about him. The new EP is gorgeous. I love the butterfly imagery at the end, and the spider. The music good. Actually I think the series overall has a nice soundtrack to it...it's one of the things that attracted me to the first season. |
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Aylinn
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Did he? Didn't it just postpone Zero's descending into level E? I have just watched this episode and it was fairly good. It seems Studio DEEN animate Rido arc, good choice, it's already ended in the manga, so at least VKG will get a proper ending unless Studio DEEN use the cliffhanger from chapter 43. I'm going to watch Vampire Knight Guilty because there is going to be more Kaname this time
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JacobC
ANN Contributor
Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
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Technically, yes. Practically, no, I asked my Japanese bishi-loving friend Ayaka if spoiler[Zero ever has hunger pangs after this point, and she said it's not really an issue for the story.] Apparently, a pureblood's juices are strong enough to stave off any vampire devolution for Zero for a while, at least until the story is pretty much over. Of course, she's going by the manga, which I haven't read. The anime may be very different, but it would behoove them to discard Zero's degradation arc in favor of finding out what Kaname is up to for a change. That's where the story does seem to be aiming now, as of episode 1. It's already more heavily focused on Kaname, with Zero and Yuuki "emoting in the dark" and flashbacking until Kaname can reveal his plots to us. I'm more of a Zero x Yuuki girl myself, but I'll admit that we know next to nothing about our third lead in the story, which is a problem, so a new focus is probably a good thing. Zero has had a LOT more screentime, even if that never bothered me. (He's pretty tight.  )
As for that new OP and ED, I guess I fit in with the rest of you in saying that I thought the ED was gorgeous, possibly better than the first, but the OP...was passable. Part of it may be that after hearing the OP for the first season a couple times, I could hum the whole thing easily. This second season OP...I can remember the dadadadada-DA-dadada part, and then the middle falls away in my mind, because it just didn't have that catchy flow that the original did. I like the first bar or two though...
You know, I considered entirely a guilty pleasure when I first started watching it, but I don't think that's entirely fair at this point. Apart from employing the overused device of the "underappreciated identical twin," this story has had a lot of welcome little twists, and I think it's very well-written, vampire bishis or no vampire bishis, there is a story there, and it's well-crafted. Even that twin was an interesting guy in execution. (But why an identical twin? That's SO cliche!) ANYWAY! Episode one: what do we know now? As Aylinn pointed out, we know that Zero's going to be okay, but still is in danger of succumbing to bloodlust. It's no longer a survival urge, but it terrifies him when he realizes he has the SAME reaction to the thought of drinking blood, especially Yuuki's. Once a vampire, always a vampire. We also know that he's not at all grateful to Kaname. Zero wasn't born yesterday, he knows that Kaname had ulterior motives for helping him and he suspects that those ulterior motives involve a great enemy to the purebloods. Maria Kurenai told him that her master Shizuka planned on playing Zero for a pawn in the upcoming battle, and Zero knows that Kaname probably has the same thing in mind. This is a huge problem for Zero because he's stretched out in all directions anyway, and doesn't have the freedom to investigate Kaname's schemes. I mean, Zero's having to fight his own vampiric urges, protect Yuuki from Kaname, himself, and the powers-that-be, and fight against the vampire council and (I suspect) the Hunters' Organization too, so they won't kill him! He's on the edge of a knife already, without the thought of being some chess-piece to a pureblood plaguing him. Angst angst angst, but it's well-deserved. Poor guy. On Yuuki's end of things, she feels pretty useless. Kaname is looking out for her, Zero is looking out for her, but she feels completely out of the loop. Zero is now rejecting her blood, the one thing she thought she could do for him, and he won't tell her why. (It's complicated.) Kaname is treating her like a child and won't take her seriously when she's seriously upset about the lies swirling around and manipulating Zero, and he won't tell her why he's putting up with it, either. (It's MORE complicated.) All across the board, Yuuki feels helpless and childish and wonders if she's doing the right thing or just doesn't know enough about what's going on. Her roommate (name escapes me) tells her, however, that feeling immature is okay, and that there's a lot of good behind Yuuki's impulsive, intrusive way of helping others. Kaname is STILL an enigma, but he wants that enemy to the purebloods gone, and he didn't trust the emotionally damaged Shizuka to do it without disgracing the order, so he's taking part of her plan and integrating it with one of his own. Oh, and he hates Zero. I get the feeling that this arc will involve a lot of betrayal on the part of Yuuki, further convoluting the love triangle that we THOUGHT was more Zero-open at the end of the last season. She's still infatuated with Kaname and is more "indebted" to Zero, so any more emotional confusion is just going to pull her towards the pureblood...gosh, what if he bites her?!  I think this series will go downhill if Yuuki becomes a vampire, at least too early on.
Oh yeah, one more thing: It may be emotional fanservice, but I thought the "almost-kiss" was forced. It felt slapped into the scene, and I didn't really go for it or go for how mushy Zero turned so quickly, nightmare or no nightmare. There must be something else going on with him, else it was a reaction to OVERWHELMING STRESS. |
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Aylinn
Posts: 1684 |
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Sure but in the manga it happened later on. This scene where Zero drinks Kaname's blood was probably used in anime so early in order to make a cliffhanger, so they may still use it.
It's because anime is a bit jumbled up. At that point in the manga he was under overwhelming stress. The scene when Zero drinks Kaname's blood is chronologically later than the scene when Zero has the dream, so in the manga he was still afraid of descending into level E. |
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living_puppet
Posts: 13 |
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I'm with you on that. Zero definitely got a lot more character development last season, and Zero/Yuuki seems to be the more believable pairing so far (in my opinion). Kaname has been more in the background, mysteriously plotting away. It's obvious why Zero loves Yuuki (she's been there to support and protect him every step of the way, and has given him a reason to keep going), but it's not yet clear to me why Kaname feels so strongly about her. It'll be interesting to see. I agree with you, I suspect she will become closer to Kaname this season.
Heh, I don't care how cliche it was, I loved all the Shizuka/Ichiru stuff. Shizuka was a fascinating villain, I only wished she could have had more development (oh well I guess there's always fanfic). So Maria has inherited her blood, is that right? Then that leaves open the possibility for Zero to become a full vampire in the future does it it? Perhaps there is still hope for him yet. |
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JacobC
ANN Contributor
Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
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Thanks for the insider cues on the manga, Aylinn. I think pushing Zero's Kaname-gorging up to the end of the last season was a wise decision on their part so, again, Kaname x Yuuki could be more the focus of our second season.
But I think the almost-kiss should have been placed elsewhere, instead of at the end of a contrived dream sequence. What should have been a really "oh my gosh!" moment felt forced, and that, quite frankly, bites. (Pun-pun-pun...)
Isn't he already, though? I mean, Maria is much the same as Ichiru in that she was healed from drinking pureblood, but never had hers taken in return, so she was indebted to Shizuka, but not her "slave." (The only difference between them is that Maria is a vampire, Ichiru is a human.) I don't know as her having some of Shizuka's blood, however, has ANYTHING to do with Zero because... ...he already drank Shizuka's blood. It was inside Kaname. Two for the price of one: he's both pulled out of Level E status by drinking Kaname's blood, and released from any ties he had to the dead woman or her line from drinking Shizuka's blood via Kaname. As for the full vampire thing, that's either going to be revealed later as obtainable through a different method, or it's simple impossible and Zero is just a defused time bomb. It's asserted very frequently that "All humans who are forced to become vampires WILL sink to Level E." It's only a matter of when, but with the juices of two purebloods in him, one of whom was his master, Zero is probably years off or something. He's not the libidinous beast he was in the first season, we've had enough of that, probably for the rest of the story. But he's still a vampire, that pisses him off. 
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living_puppet
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There was a scene in particular were Maria is talking about Shizuka possessing her body, and she says that she has "inherited" her blood. I could be remembering wrong or reading too much into the translation...she might have been referring to Shizuka's blood curing her. If Kaname's blood has only postponed things since he was not Zero's original creator, then Maria might be the next best thing in the end. That's a good point, Kaname did drink Shizuka blood also. As I said, I haven't read the manga either so I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens. Confession - I kind of want to see him fall to a level E, though. 
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JacobC
ANN Contributor
Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
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Right, right, well, you could be right and I'm just missing it there, but I THINK the implication is that Zero got Shizuka's blood through Kaname. We'll know if that's accurate or not through Maria's actions in future episodes (or lack of, if she just steps out of the story). Don't feel bad about wanting to see crazy-thirsty monster Zero. I wanted to as well, but I figured we got to see that already at the end of episode 13, right? He looked pretty Level E to me while STILL being attractive. (The last thing to go in that devolution is your good looks, apparently. Everything else in his behavior communicated brain-dead ravenous demon...that loves Yuuki. Awwwww.) |
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living_puppet
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Those level E's should stop taking so much crap from everyone. I mean, being hunted by both humans and vampires, they just can't catch a break, lol. No, but seriously, I'm a sucker for tragic endings. I'm rooting for Yuuki/Zero, but if that's what should happen by the end of the story... I will probably still like it. Actually, I'll be happy to get a satisfying ending, or at least one that will flow nicely into the manga continuation. I just finished watching Zombie Loan, which I suppose has some similar themes (although I wouldn't say it's as good as VK) and it spoiler[just... ends. On a huge cliffhanger. Ugh.] |
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marie-antoinette
Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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As far as the Level E thing goes, I'm going to relate a discussion I had with my friend whom I made watch the first season with me. She pointed out that there are inconsistencies with the vampires, mainly when it comes to sensing blood and bloodlust. I then pointed out that in fact all the inconsistencies surround Zero. And the reason for this I think is something that I've heard speculated about by others: the idea that Zero wasn't originally supposed to be as major a character as he ended up.
I think that in the original plan, he probably was going to fall to Level E permanently and then Yuuki would have to kill him (and thus leave her open to hook up with Kaname). However, obviously Zero turned out to be a major player, so I think that left the mangaka struggling to find a way for him to not have to be killed. Which not only helps explain why there might be inconsistencies about how he reacts to blood, but also over whether or not he is a full vampire or whether he will still fall to Level E and all that stuff. Of course, it's just speculation, but it makes a lot of sense. And yes, living_puppet, the manga spoiler[near kiss] was rather horribly mean to the spoiler[Yuuki/Zero shippers], even if it wasn't exactly that surprising. It also didn't seem quite as forced in the manga either, though I don't feel that it's too bad in the anime. It was the only moment of disappointment in the episode. |
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JacobC
ANN Contributor
Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
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I haven't read the manga, so I can't comment on this speculation, if only to ask: what are the inconsistencies? Zero's curse makes a lot of sense to me, but then again, I haven't read the manga, so maybe some things were painted over in the anime?  '
The way I see it, Zero is a Level D vampire, correct? He has been since the incident four years ago. As a Level D, he's a once-human vampire, so not real high on the power chain, but a true vampire, albeit impure and half-baked. Real vampires are immortal, and they don't HAVE to have blood, they just want it for nourishment, pleasure and passion. So Zero had less trouble resisting any urges by denying his vampire-ness. The story actually begins when he's somewhere in between D and E. E levels aren't considered real vampires because they NEED blood and all they do is attack people and gorge themselves. A disgrace to the dignity of the real thing, and a result of two incompatible species (human and vampire) decomposing their host to a starved demon. It was because he was becoming more and more Level E that he "needed" blood, and the more Yuuki gives him, the more he needs. After Kaname gives him blood, he just re-stabilizes at D level, where he was before the series began. He doesn't need blood, but he's pretty pissed that he still wants it. It makes sense to me. Where are the holes, or were they more present in the manga? The one stipulation I have with the theory was originally a throwaway character is the idea of the love triangle. Reverse harem with a school setting and a love triangle is a staple of anime and manga, and I figured the manga-ka would be writing to that. Since Aidou is the only "extra" character with a more developed role, maybe he was supposed to be the third wheel originally? If the anime and the manga aren't TOO different, I think the creator just planned on saving Zero at some point...and didn't know how until she had written several chapters. |
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marie-antoinette
Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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The main inconsistency that was pointed out is that sometimes Zero goes absolutely crazy at the scent of blood, while other times he doesn't react as strongly. This happens a few times in the first season.
I guess another reason I feel that the theory about Zero could be right is the fact that I have never seen the series as a reverse harem. Yes, I do think that Zero was meant to be part of a triangle, but I think of it more along the lines of how things are in most love triangles in the manga of Watase Yuu: it's always blatantly obvious who the heroine will end up with. And my feeling is that originally, Kaneme/Yuuki (not Kaname/Zero, why do I keep trying to type that, silly inner yaoi fangirl ) was supposed to be The Couple (TM), while Zero was a rival but not a serious contender.
But then he became a more important character and so they had to figure out a way to keep him around. Which is why Zero went from needing Shizuka's blood to being able to make due with Kaname's, at least for the time being. Though, as has been pointed out, they did move that scene up quite a bit from where it happens in the manga, which obviously changes things even more. On another topic I have been thinking about...Yuuki's assertion that she feels young. I'm thinking that she actually should be considered a bit younger than her actual age, because of the years of development she lost with her amnesia. While she wasn't quite back to infancy, what we've seen of her after Kaname rescued her shows that she lost a lot of basic skills and probably was about as functional as a toddler. So I'm thinking as far as mental and emotional development go, she really is 2-3 years younger than her actual age. I might be thinking a bit too much about my admitted guilty pleasure
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JacobC
ANN Contributor
Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
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Makes sense. I do know that Zero is more wildly popular wit da ladies than Kaname, so this probably influenced her writing regardless of what she planned on doing with Zero. You said events were switched around in the manga, so I don't know if this applies but...that thing with needing Shizuka's lifeblood is not a plothole. They don't say "Oh, Kaname's will suffice." Shizuka is in Kaname, (hee hee, dirty me) so he does get what he wants/needs, post her mortem. About it being obvious who her female characters would end up with, it seems EXTREMELY obvious to me that this story can only end properly with Zero and Yuuki together. That being said, I am suspicious of what this season's commercials have been hinting at, which is that Yuuki betrays Zero for Kaname in some way, whether she becomes a vampire or whatever. One of Zero's biggest character traits is his stubbornness and tendency to hold DEEP DEEP DEEP grudges for grievance. So, the only way I can see Yuuki and Kaname together is if Zero is so hurt by Yuuki in some way that he decides to hate her in a radical, deeply hurt emotion-flip, like he did with his brother...but even that can be turned around. 
As for Yuuki, I never thought about it, but what you're saying makes a lot of sense. (Remember that scene with her trying to dress herself and being embarrassed that Kaname was watching? Awww.) She is childlike in so many ways that I think you're on to something there, you're right. (I wonder if it's important...hm.) On another end of things, she often says she feels like a child after she tries to reach the boys on an emotional level and fails because they're keeping secrets from her. She feels like they treat her like a child, and hates it because she can't really tell them they're wrong. She feels pretty useless being so in the dark about everything and having no power over the tragedy sweeping through the school. I think Kaname really does treat her like a child in some ignorant attempt to protect her and still make himself appear confident and attractive to her (douche). Zero doesn't intend to treat her like a child at all, but he doesn't tell her anything because he's scared to open his heart and admit any kind of affection beyond a duty to protect her from himself and any other vampires (silly little boy). They're both frustrating, aren't they? I like Yuuki more than Kaname or Zero, but I like Zero infinitely more than Kaname because he at least has a simple, stubborn will to do right no matter the cost. Kaname, however, is rather an officious, manipulative douchebag...with nice pecs.
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