Forum - View topicProduction I.G. asks fansubbers not to fansub
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Aaron White
Old Regular
Posts: 1365 Location: Birmingham, Alabama |
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From the News section:
"A short post on the Production I.G forum, by Ghost inthe Shell: Stand Alone Complex scriptwriter Yoshiki Sakurai, calls for American fans to buy their anime instead of downloading it. The writer cites the struggling anime market in Japan, and the problems they face with bootleggers around the world." I suspect fansubbers are too invested in the whole hobby aspect of fansubbing to just stop, and the ones who don't follow fansubber ethics aren't going to straighten up at some scriptwriter's request. |
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GATSU
Posts: 16407 |
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Well I don't think you'll ever stop fansubbers. But maybe this will convince consumers that fansubbing does hurt the studios.
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ownerizer
Posts: 136 |
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But then, this leads to the whole issue of if fansubbing really does hurt the anime industry. After seeing the fansubbed series of Noir, I can't wait for ADV to release it on DVD in Febuary, so I can get it and watch and listen to the death and carnage in all the goodies DVDs offer. It's one of those cases where after watching fansubbed, I told myself "Damn. I have to get this on DVD."
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cookie
Former ANN Editor in Chief
 Posts: 2460 Location: Do not contact me for support. |
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At a con two years ago, Matt Greenfield said that fansubbing has had a noticable impact on at least some sales.
One example he mentioned was when ADV released Nuku Nuku VHS Vol. 3, its sales were several thousand units higher than Nuku Nuku 1-2. If anyone's seen sales records of the video industry, this is (typically) not the case with continuing series -- the first tape sells the best, and each successive tape sells less and less. What ADV attributed the increase in sales to is that Nuku Nuku episodes 1-4 were heavily fansubbed and distributed (after all; 4 episodes to a tape) but 5-6 weren't put out as much. Thus, one can assume (with relative safety) that -most- people who got fansubs on VHS DID NOT BUY the commercial release, for Nuku Nuku at least. This was, of course, back in ~1994-1995, too, when the anime industry was less than half of its current size. Fandom's rapid growth could trigger the increased buying (but then wouldn't fandom also be buying the older tapes?), or perhaps Nuku 3 got better distribution in stores (but... i don't recall seeing anime in non-comics stores until 1997-1998ish.) ... but the simplest explanation is that people who already have the title simply do not care to replace it with a commercial release. ... for Nuku Nuku Vols 1-2, at least. Does this apply to more modern titles? I'll wager it does, particularly because uploading/downloading is significantly easier than copying a vhs. -=- The thing is that people don't intentionally wish to harm the industry... it's just that they're lazy and forgetful. I believe the same can apply to music piracy and virtually any other form of piracy on the internet. By the time the person has enough money to buy whatever it is they were interested in, the NEXT cool thing comes along, and so they spend their money on that instead... and thus the mp3 (or anime or movie or whatever) never gets paid for. .. and slowly this piles up and people end up with thousands on thousands of dollars of illegally downloaded material that they don't feel like buying because "it's so old! and besides, there's a new cool song coming out next week!" At least, that's my 2 yen on the matter. |
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Cgoten
Posts: 390 Location: Glenview, Illinois |
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A lot of the time that isn't the case. A few people I know download stuff and don't buy it because they don't care if the companies release it here. As long as they can see it it doesn't matter. Personally, I'm a sucker and I end up buying almost everything I download. 
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hakootoko
Posts: 74 |
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I read the link given on the main ANN page, and statements here seem to be misreprenting the guy's opinion.
He said he understood why people like fansubs. But he asked that after you watch and enjoy a fansub that you please buy the legit product. So it doesn't sound so anti-fansub to me. Just a plea for us to support his livelihood so he can keep making anime. |
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Ataru
 Posts: 2349 Location: Missouri (Strikeman) |
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Once and a great while, I'll download a fansub (I'm running on 56K, so it will once and great while.), but when ever the commical release finally hits the States, say Chobits, I buy the DVD and delete the fansub. I've done that with Excel Sege, Love Hina, GTO, and GateKeepers TV. That way, I can be happy until it finally hits the US streets.
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FallenAngelFish
 Posts: 17 |
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It didn't look like the post was anti-fansub though, it mostly refers to bootlegs which obviously do hurt the industry. Fansubs are mostly in my opinion a way to catch up with what's airing in Japan. If you don't like it, don't watch, if you do buy it. I don't understand how someone could like the show and then not want to have the official release when it comes out, the quality is infinitely better.
I really wish people would be more careful with fansubs (and bootlegs too of course) because if they create a bad rep, even the good guys will go down. Also I'd like to throw in the fact that it's pointless to fansub GITS:SAC anyway since Bandai will have it here in no time. There are plenty of other shows that haven't been licensed that could use some attention. Maybe if people fansubbed them companies will pay attention and bring them over here. |
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Kain
Posts: 34 |
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The intentions are good, but looking at the situation realistically, this cry for help will fall upon deaf ears.
Remember Nancy Reagan's "Just Say No" anti-drug campaign (I know Ronald doesn't... OK, that joke was in poor taste)? Last time I checked, drug sales haven't exactly faltered because users were suddenly sent on a ethical guilt trip. And to anyone who thinks a drug/anime analogy doesn't correlate, well, anime may very well be more chemically addicting than crack. I have the T-shirt that proves it ;) |
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Cgoten
Posts: 390 Location: Glenview, Illinois |
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Yeah, but people want it NOW. As long as you can see it at least a few minutes earlier than the DVD release, people will download it. Actually, I have the first GitS episode on my computer right now... |
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GATSU
Posts: 16407 |
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Yeah, but Nancy Reagan was already on crack, and she just wanted to hoard it all for herself. OTOH, these are real people who are directly affected by loss of sales, not just politicians with cheap rhetoric. (That's why those Truth.com ads don't work, because you got people who are just spewing propaganda, and not people who have been hurt or had friends and relatives hurt by cigarettes. For example, I saw an ad where they were complaining about the tobacco industry selling directly to the poor; but they wouldn't be poor in the first place if they could find a job, and cigarettes are all that keep happy. But as long as they don't have bronchitis while they're starving, that's all that matters.)
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cookie
Former ANN Editor in Chief
Posts: 2460 Location: Do not contact me for support. |
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Some of us fail to see a significant difference between the two.
If, by 'catch up' you mean, "see what's aired within 24 hours." It's not a game of catch-up for most of these people anymore, it's almost a replacement for "normal" TV watching. Turnaround on fansubs has gone from 2-3 months... to 1 month... to a week... to 24 hours or less in some cases. It wasn't too long ago when I was watching Love Hina raw, and then seeing a friend put a subtitle track on it within 24 hours of it's broadcast in Japan. I doubt you can get -much- faster than that, but same-day broadcast, same-day translation, same-day distribution appears to be on the rise. It's about as close to 0 day warez as you can get with anime.
There are a multitude of older shows that have little-to-no potential for the US market. I recall recently seeing an episode or two of NG Lamune & Knight 40 on the 'new digisubs' lists around the net. That's something that came out in the 80s -- that's the sort of thing I want to see more fansubs of. things that -won't- be released over here. i bought the azudai boxes, fully expecting it to be picked up in the near future. now, i don't expect atashi n'chi to get licensed. that's not what most people would identify as "anime". likewise, sazae-san, and even crayon shin-chan to a lesser extent. they're not really exportable products, as they focus on japanese _family life_ (or something akin to it) much more than japanese _storytelling_. |
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Vicious
 Posts: 97 |
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But even if fansubbing is piracy(In the moral sense, obviously it is literally), what good would eliminating it do? People will rip the US release and people who are going to steal it are going to steal it. Really all stoping fansubbing would do would be hurting the want it now, pay for it later people. And while they are just being impatiant, they aren't really doing anything wrong.
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Cassandra
 Posts: 1356 Location: Birdsboro, PA |
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What about the shows where it specifically asks people NOT to fansub and distro it? Cookie was saying something in another thread about Mahoromatic season 2 specifically saying "don't fansub this" or something. Yet it's still being distributed.
I, personally, rarely download fansubs. And when I do, it's of series that haven't been licensed...usually older series. (I downloaded part of Hyper Police thinking it would never happen...two days later the license was announced, I immediately deleted it....and I buy the legit DVDs.) And I've seen a LOT of people on anime forums that talk about downloading stuff but never buying the legit DVD when it comes out. I would find that to be more of the norm than most people would like to think. |
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hakootoko
Posts: 74 |
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Unfortunately, almost no one who gets fansubs buys the dvds. So there is something to be said against fansubs.
I'm on irc a lot, and on networks like aniverse and dalnet, people openly fansub licensed shows and rip R1 dvds. They make no distinction between either of these and fansubbing unlicensed anime. Even on etg, the supposedly ethical network, I've gotten shocked reactions from people because I deleted fansubs of anime just because the show was licensed. Everyone likes to talk about what's right and what's wrong, but it doesn't make a difference because the majority seems to be out there doing whatever it can get away with. |
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