Forum - View topicFate/Zero (TV).
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Spotlesseden
Posts: 3514 Location: earth |
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I think the rule for the Holy Grail is that the hero doesn't have to exist or already existed. It can be myth hero or future hero.
Last edited by Spotlesseden on Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:24 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Yttrbio
 Posts: 3824 |
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Yeah, it's the rare Kajiura soundtrack that doesn't scream "I'm a Kajiura soundtrack!!!" Unfortunately, that's kind of what she does best. I'm not sure Kawai's work would fit all that well here, either. Slopping heaps of atmosphere on the audience isn't as important in this show as it was for F/SN, as the art does the heavy lifting. |
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Errinundra
Moderator
 Posts: 6694 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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Agree totally. Along with the action and the characters themselves. |
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Gon*Gon
 Posts: 679 |
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Well that's not too surprising. F/SN's Berserker is Heracles, who was pretty much a barbarian to begin with even before becoming the class. Whereas this one is...a certain knight. But completely opposite of what Heracles was. I guess this Berserker only lives up to his name when he sees Saber. Seeing Berserker wield that lamp post like a staff like that made me really wish one of the Servants was Sun Wukong. Something in me made me glad I only semi-spoiled myself, because there were a lot of things I didn't expect, like how non-berserky Berserker's actions were.(compared to Heracles swinging his axe around like a caveman)
Well duh, yuri couples are ALWAYS better than plain normal straight couples.  (even if the normal straight couple is a depressed japanese man and the whitest german in existence)
My personal theory is that most of the time, it's usually the legend's version of the hero that is summoned, as in what people saw him/her as. That was why Sasaki Koujiro was able to hold up against a mythological figure like Saber despite having no special weapons like Excaliber...whereas the real version, regardless of how good he might have been, wouldn't last a second. That should also explain why Iskander is so...batshit awesome in this show and nothing like the man we read about in History courses. |
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damien007
 Posts: 180 |
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That is incorrect, there is most certainly some historical basis to king Arthur. He's is mentioned many time in ancient historical texts as a king / warrior who helped fight off the Saxon invasion of England. Although it isn't a concrete source Wikipedia has a good deal of information regards to the debate over king Arthurs existence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_arthur). I'm not claiming the he exists, only that it is debatable. Also with regards to my other post when I said the figures in the show had to have some basis in reality I didn't mean they had to actually be real. All the characters who aren't (supposedly) real are mythological, which is different to fictional. A mythological story is one that is claimed to have been real at some point in the past. Heracles and the other Greek legends were almost definitely considered real by the ancients Greeks. On the other hand Frankenstein's monster is purely fictional and never makes any claim to be true in any way shape of form. If the heroes could be entirely fictional we would have people like "the doctor" or Macbeth running around. Which while entertaining is not really what i think the show is going for. Last edited by damien007 on Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:41 am; edited 1 time in total |
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egoist
 Posts: 7762 |
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That berserker is just awesome. Really curious about his identity. Rider is still very entertaining, and I suppose there's a custom set up for masters, but not completely.
Everyone is after Saber as usual. Lancer usually doesn't agree with its master and is usually the one mostly regarded as a tool by its master. Saber gets a righteous master. Berserker gets a weak master. Rider gets a coward for a master. Archer comes to the one who looks at the big picture. Now the last two don't really connect as well: Assassin to a sneaky master. The FSN assassin was more of a knight class, he just lacked the armor. And finally Caster to a cold blooded killer. You could argue otherwise because he (Caster's master in FSN) seemed kind, but there's plenty of evidence to prove otherwise.
How would they fight? Throwing legislations at ya? Well, their Noble Phantasm could be the ability to summon a small army of American peasants holding shovels and pitchforks. |
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Errinundra
Moderator
Posts: 6694 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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Illya was the strongest mage in F/SN as far as innate magic goes. Tactically she was pathetic. Remember, in F/SN, that Sakura was originally spoiler[Rider's master. Shinji stole her command seals.] Yes, Berserker stole the show (getting back to FZ), despite Rider's best efforts. Last edited by Errinundra on Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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egoist
Posts: 7762 |
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Hmm I don't mean their innate magic because as far as that goes both of them seem to be able to supply sufficiently, but as far as combat or support goes they're both pretty weak. The clear difference between them and Rider's masters is simply the level of courage. You'd think the serial killer is pretty weak as far as the holy war goes, but I'm sure he'll get some support magic from Caster at some point, which is gonna be interesting because that guy is completely nuts.
Shinji didn't have any but he turned out to be the strongest master. Tactically both are pathetic. The guy who spoiler[threw a wild dog into a pack of wolves. Not that different from what Illya would do though.] A better way to describe Caster's FSN master would be a neutral evil who fell in love. Opposed to the current one who is just a chaotic evil. Actually, I think that system is pretty good at identifying the heroes and its masters here. |
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Kirkdawg
 Subscriber Posts: 742 Location: California, USA |
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Just in case anyone wasn't aware, Berserker's master consumes massive amounts of mana just to control his servant in a meaningful way. We can see very clearly the series hinting at this fact when spoiler[his master throws up blood and some worms he allowed into his body. He was supposed to last another month, but he realizes here that after consuming so much mana in that battle, Berserker and his master might not last a week....which puts a bit of a time crunch on the duo.]
Episode 5 was a great watch, the animation in this series is superb on top of the music and editing (film techniques). Really top value production in all regards and to boot it's on one of my favorite franchise-what's not to like? Release more episodes per week! 
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Gon*Gon
Posts: 679 |
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Well the difference between the Matou and Ilya is that Ilya actually had control of Heracles. That, and Ilya and Heracles is far stronger than Fate/Zero's duo, Master wise and Servant wise.
I think a more obvious difference between the two is F/SN is more secretive and collected, whereas this Caster and Master in this series are both deranged psychopaths. _______________________________________________________________________________________________________ As for episode 5....Berserker easily stole the show. But, how come Berserker was animated in CG? I guess it looks kinda neat, and as far as CG in anime goes, this one actually looks decent, but...why? |
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Kirkdawg
Subscriber Posts: 742 Location: California, USA |
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But Matou IS in control of Berserker, it just requires an absurd amount of mana. As such, any lengthy fight will take a significant toll on him. It's not perfect control, but it's fairly close.
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Raftina
 Posts: 3282 |
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Kariya said outright that spoiler[he lost control of Berserker when it saw Saber.]
Most likely, Berserker is animated in CG because the particle effects surrounding him is much easier to animate in CG. It's more seamless to integrate a CG character with the background than it is to integrate a cel character with the smoke. Last edited by Raftina on Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Kirkdawg
Subscriber Posts: 742 Location: California, USA |
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His control isn't perfect, this is probably a hint between the two's relationship. The mere fact that there's any relationship at all narrows Berserker's identity considerably. |
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Gon*Gon
Posts: 679 |
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That's my one small nitpick about this series...I wanted more characters that are unrelated, yet have similarities only in their nature or story.
For example, Iskander and Saber relating to each other from being Kings. Or Gilles mistaking Saber as Joan of Arc thanks to their uncanny resemblance.
Then how come Berserker have those particle effects? Don't get me wrong, I like his look, and Berserker was awesome, I just found it odd that he's the only one in CG. My original guess was because of his Mad Enhancement...but then I remember Heracles never having it. |
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jl07045
 Posts: 1527 Location: Riga, Latvia |
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Use the link with caution. It may spoil Berserker's identity to you. Though I had narrowed this down to two possibilities after the current fight anyway, when I read it.
http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/For_Someone%27s_Glory EDIT: Thanks, Etrien for pointing out my slip-up. Last edited by jl07045 on Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:09 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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