Forum - View topicNEWS: Spike Lee's Oldboy Remake Presents 1st Poster
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outlawwolf
 Posts: 645 |
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Let's take a moment to reflect on the fact that the original movie also took liberties from it's original source material, which was the manga. With that in mind, let's talk about how it won't be good because it'll take liberties and make it different from the original movie.
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Tony K.
 SubscriberModerator  Posts: 11299 Location: Frisco, TX |
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I didn't even like the original movie that much.
spoiler[ In the end, the whole motive for revenge feels so completely petty. Just because the main character was a kid and blabbed his mouth about a girl sexing around with another guy who just happened to be her brother doesn't excuse the fact that the brother shouldn't have been screwing her in the first place, whether or not anybody actually knew it was incest.] spoiler[ Certainly, the main character was no saint when he grew up. But to have something like that happen to him serves as nothing more than shock value, as opposed to a fair trade or any sense of justice from either side. I'm all for revenge stories, as they're my favorite type, but I hardly think the main character deserved what he got. If anything, the plot feels "sadistic, just for the sake of being sadistic." It's cruel, non-empathetic, and twisted to the point of where I simply wanna' do nothing but hate the guy that set the whole thing up.] |
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Fronzel
Posts: 1906 |
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That's the point. It's a satire of revenge films. Notice how everything went just the way that guy wanted and yet he ended up spoiler[killing himself?] |
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Tony K.
Subscriber Moderator Posts: 11299 Location: Frisco, TX |
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But Woo-jin brought it upon himself by spoiler[ having sex with his sister in the first place. The reason for getting revenge was his own fault. If he hadn't done his sister, the rumors wouldn't have started, the sister wouldn't have killed herself, and the guy would never have had to carry out such a heinous plan just to realize how stupid he was for being the cause of the whole mess.]
In general, I think revenge can be, both, justified and needlessly destructive depending on the reason (I honestly was rooting for Dae-su to really hurt some people). But spoiler[ based on the sole fact that it was Woo-jin who catalyzed the entire plot by engaging in a sexual relation with his own sister, by the end, it defeats the purpose of realizing that revenge can be petty because he's, both the cause and effect, which evokes sympathy for Dae-su, but a total void of satisfaction or justice when Woo-jin decides to kill himself.] It's anticlimactic because spoiler[ Dae-su never truly gets to carry out his own revenge, while Woo-jin makes him suffer infinitely more in comparison and ends up offing himself.] I was really dissatisfied and angry after everything played out. Essentially, it's saying spoiler[ the bad guy wins by trying to victimize himself, the good guy suffers the ultimate humiliation for the bad guy's own mistake, and nobody's happy in the end.] That doesn't feel like irony, it feels like tragedy; really, really, horrible and senseless tragedy because spoiler[ Woo-jin just had to do his sister and blame someone else for his mistake.] |
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RAmmsoldat
 Posts: 1261 Location: North wales coast |
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on topic i like the poster, its quite simplistic but im a sucker for red on black.
And for the record I dont like spike lee but the man is capable of making a film i can enjoy (summer of sam) and as outlawwolf this is an adaptation of an adaptation....bit like the new total recall in that regard lol. |
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Gilles Poitras
Posts: 476 Location: Oakland California |
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If you have not read the manga I highly recommend it. Not at all the same story. The only thing the manga and movie has in common are: 1. Guy get locked up for years and released. 2. Guy want to find out why. |
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Tony K.
Subscriber Moderator Posts: 11299 Location: Frisco, TX |
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Yeah, I've been told and have heard the manga is much better. And given this newly found kind of resurgence, I'm really considering it.
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roseversailles
 Posts: 236 Location: Washington, U.S. |
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I don't know, the way I saw it was spoiler[Dae-Su HAD been directly nvolved in the sister's suicide. Had he not spread rumors in what was presumably a tight-knit community, thus bringing shame on her and her brother, she may not have offed herself. However, as you said, the fault still lies with Woo-jin, but something important to remember is that THE GUY'S INSANE. The girl he loved is dead, with her blood on his hands, and it's much easier to blame another guy and plot to drag him down to his level (something he devotes the entirety of his life to), then shrug and accept the blame. Dae-Su's punishment isn't fair, none of it's fair, but at the end of the day, it's "an eye for an eye." Woo-Jin didn't get the satisfaction of his revenge; neither did Dae-Su. Woo-Jin's motivation for life is now gone, and revenge has given him nothing. Dae-Su has sunk to the level of his enemy, with his revenge hollow as despite effectively killing Woo-Jin, he is devoid of triumph. The bleak circle continues, and the ending is effectively ambiguous over what will happen. Either way, it is bittersweet, as Dae-Su will either live ignorantly in sin, or guiltily in knowledge. He sought to destroy a monster, but became one in the process. Revenge is not always fair, and rarely is it truly satisfactorily. Something (often humanity) is always lost in the process. I Saw the Devil is a good example for that, if you've seen that one  ]
While I don't think Oldboy is a truly great film, I find it to be a well-made, interesting film with an intriguing premise. Its main strong points are not in the plot, but in Min-sik Choi's gutsy performance, the sweet score, some well-directed (fight!( scenes, and memorability. It's one of the better South Korean films out there, and rightly deserves its status. While I'm excited for another adaptation of the manga, I doubt it will be as wild and rough and (dare I say?) good, as the first one. |
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mdo7
 Posts: 6258 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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Well, I hope this film will be closer to the manga then the original Korean film, although I understand the Korean version had a lot of critical acclaim, but the film didn't even come close to the manga. Hope the US version could come close to the original manga.
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mrsticky005
Posts: 114 |
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I rather like the manga myself but a lot of people (mainly fans of the movie) do not. Most of the reason why I think is because 1. Slow pacing: Oldboy is the kind of manga that you should recline in a comfy chair and sip some tea or whatever while you read it. It does get rather interesting but it's not exactly visceral. 2. Mind Games There's a lot more plotting then there is actual action. It's sorta like Death Note in a way but with less hectic pacing. Plus it doesn't go to intellectual extremes where everyone is super geniuses. It's pretty down to earth 3. Little Shock Value While the movie is big on shock value the manga has little. When you boil it down Oldboy is a rather "ordinary" manga but that, I think is kind of the beauty to it. Many people don't like the motive of the main bad guy and thought it was weak. I however disagree with them. I think it's less the motive is weak but more it's difficult to understand and in a way that's how it should be. What I like most about the manga is 1. The protagonist--He's a man's man. He's slightly dark and edgy but it never goes overboard. But he's also got a more human and vulnerable side. 2. The antagonist--He's an elitist. He's got it all except the one thing he actually wants. He's almost sympathetic but at the same time he's really easy to hate. I personally like a villain like that. 3. The atmosphere-- It's very classy and noir. 4. The slow pacing--- I actually think this kind of helps the manga in a way because it allows the stuff to sink in. 5. Characters--They're archetypal and pretty simple. I suppose some would think they're flat and dull. However I think they are "comfortable" characters. 6. Realism-- It has a slice of life feel to it and although a bit stylized it has a bit of realism to it. The plot does require some suspension of disbelief towards the end but it's nothing TOO radical I don't think. It is fiction after all. |
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Tony K.
Subscriber Moderator Posts: 11299 Location: Frisco, TX |
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I did think the movie was very well-made, especially for a Korean film (production values for foreign movies can be a downer, sometimes, though, that wasn't the case, with Oldboy). And I enjoyed the plot, immensely, until the final reveal. I get that revenge can be a bad thing and is not always justifiable because so much else can be lost as collateral damage. But with Woo-jin basically spoiler[ being a villain and provoking the whole cycle on himself because of his delusional love for his sister, I simply can't accept any of his actions as being legitimate grounds for vengeance on poor Dae-su. Sure, gossiping is bad, too. But if Woo-jin just hadn't committed incest in an easily viewable public location, let alone start that kind of relationship in the first place, then the none of that mess would ever have happened. Ultimately, I saw the morals of the story to be: don't sleep with your siblings; and don't start rumors.] Haven't seen I Saw the Devil, yet, but it's at the top of my Netflix queue, now that I see it's directed by Jee-woon Kim (A Tale of Two Sisters being an absolute favorite of mine  ).
Sounds two-thirds like Monster. I'm sold. |
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roseversailles
Posts: 236 Location: Washington, U.S. |
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I get what you're saying. I saw Oldboy as tragic because, despite how messed up it was, Woo-Jin's motivation was understandable to me, and I've always found stories that question how far one can go when they lose someone they love interesting. If I were him, and in my delusional mine saw this other man as the reason for the person I love being dead (even though, realistcally, that's misplacing the blame), I would want revenge too. Would I take such a roundabout way to do it? Probably not, but then, he was trying to lower Dae-Su to his level. I understand your criticism, though, and agree to an extent
I am also a fan of A Tale of Two Sisters! I sure hated that remake, though  I Saw the Devil is not as strong a film, imo, but still worthwhile to anyone that likes the revenge genre. It's very brutal and visceral, and is actually the only film I've ever seen where the sheer spectacle of violence repulsed me (something I believe was intentional). I'm pretty stoic, so this was surprising. It's very draining as a film, but well-shot and raises some interesting notions. I hope I get to hear what you thought of it sometime!
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