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minakichan



Joined: 12 Nov 2003
Posts: 1101
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:16 am Reply with quote
Ughhh, Pocky is SO overrated. There are so many better cheapo Asian snacks, like mocha cappuchino chocolate flute wafers and Hello Panda. But no, everyone goes for the Pocky. And the ramen. Disgusting.
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Zac
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:17 am Reply with quote
minakichan wrote:
Ughhh, Pocky is SO overrated. There are so many better cheapo Asian snacks, like mocha cappuchino chocolate flute wafers and Hello Panda. But no, everyone goes for the Pocky. And the ramen. Disgusting.


Personally, I prefer those chocolate-filled koala bear cookie things, whatever they're called.
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Zalis116
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Joined: 31 Mar 2005
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Location: Kazune City
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:17 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Where are your offices so I can burn them down. you will pay for destroying kodomo no jikan.
It's funny how the flakes that ask questions almost never include question marks. And last I checked, Kodomo no Jikan still exists -- as a manga in Japan, and it's airing (censored) on Japanese TV. Reminds me of all the wackjobs who make claims like "Bandai is gonna destroy Lucky Star by dubbing it!" Yes, not only will Bandai not release the Japanese track, they'll systematically eradicate it so that no one can listen to it EVER AGAIN Rolling Eyes

The person asking about swearing in English dubs should watch more English dubs on DVD and less on TV...I've never seen a fansub with more f-bombs than ADV's Gantz dub, to name one example.
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Aromatic Grass



Joined: 31 Dec 2003
Posts: 2424
Location: Raleigh, NC
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:40 am Reply with quote
minakichan wrote:
Ughhh, Pocky is SO overrated. There are so many better cheapo Asian snacks, like mocha cappuchino chocolate flute wafers and Hello Panda.

Yes, I agree. What are those little chocolate cones with ridges called? The ones that are half strawberry-chocolate and half regular chocolate? Anyway, those are my favorites.
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jsevakis
ANN Director of New Media


Joined: 28 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:41 am Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
Personally, I prefer those chocolate-filled koala bear cookie things, whatever they're called.


Could it be Koala Yummies?! Those ARE awesome.

Though unfortunately they changed the English name back to the Japanese name, "Koala's March." Guess someone told the Japanese what a candy-ass name Koala Yummies is (even though it's much more appropriate than Koala's March). Oh well.
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Jih2



Joined: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 403
Location: East coast
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:51 am Reply with quote
Quote:
The person asking about swearing in English dubs should watch more English dubs on DVD and less on TV...I've never seen a fansub with more f-bombs than ADV's Gantz dub, to name one example.


Agreed. Annoys me that Zac didn't mention the chance that fansubbers aren't translating correctly. There was also a failure to mention thirteening...
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Zac
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:14 am Reply with quote
Jih2 wrote:

Agreed. Annoys me that Zac didn't mention the chance that fansubbers aren't translating correctly. There was also a failure to mention thirteening...


It seemed a little unfair to say that the fansubbers were "wrong" for dropping a load of English swear words in the translation and simultaneously saying there wasn't anything wrong with American R1 companies excising all the swearing for the sake of broadcast standards.

Neither is "right" but neither is "wrong".
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tasogarenootome



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 593
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:17 am Reply with quote
I'm just waiting for salmon onigiri to show up at Otakon - then Pocky can do whatever the hell it wants.

Nice long column this week Zac. Happy Thanksgiving all!
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LavenderAna



Joined: 01 Aug 2007
Posts: 20
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:46 am Reply with quote
Aromatic Grass wrote:
minakichan wrote:
Ughhh, Pocky is SO overrated. There are so many better cheapo Asian snacks, like mocha cappuchino chocolate flute wafers and Hello Panda.

Yes, I agree. What are those little chocolate cones with ridges called? The ones that are half strawberry-chocolate and half regular chocolate? Anyway, those are my favorites.


You mean Caplico? I agree, those are the best Very Happy
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mufurc



Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 612
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:55 am Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
Swearing in English is an unsubtle art, whereas directly translating these Japanese swears requires subtlety that wouldn't sound natural to an English-speaking person watching a cartoon. (...) That's not to say there are no swear words in the Japanese language, but the "real" swears aren't used on television.

Not quite - it's just that Japanese swear very differently. Yeah, there are swearwords, but aggressivity is usually expressed in different, not particularly subtle ways. Many anime/manga characters actually have very aggressive speaking patterns (even some main characters - Kurosaki Ichigo, for example) that, if they were translated more closely in style, would probably be full of fucks and shits and all that, because that is the English equivalent. And it would be definitely quite jarring to hear/read - even in Japanese they can only get away with it because they're anime/manga characters, and this style is, naturally, greatly exaggerated. No-one speaks like that in real life, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a very aggressive, hypermasculine style.
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Cain Highwind



Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 237
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:07 am Reply with quote
[quote=Zac]1. The proper way to pronounce that suffix is "chawn"(although I think "chän" is probably a better representation of the phonetic spelling), like you're hearing in those dubs and con videos. People are used to saying "Chan" like "Charlie Chan" or "Jackie Chan" and so the word gets mispronounced. Also, I'm not sure about your Japanese listening comprehension skills but I've never heard the suffix pronounced "Chan" like "Jackie Chan" in a Japanese language track.[/quote]

Thanks for answering my questions Anime smile

Yeah I know a lot of A's in Japanese are supposed to be pronounced like "Ah" Otherwise we'd have titles like "Wanma". But, I guess I'm just going nuts because a lot of "Chans" seem to sound like that to me. Oh well, mystery solved, thanks again.
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Tenchi



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 4258
Location: Ottawa... now I'm an ex-Anglo Montrealer.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:26 am Reply with quote
Worst manga... do doujinshi count?

Because I found this Slayers scat doujinshi once. I don't think I need to go any further into detail, other than, perhaps, saying that Naga's "fudge factory" was an important plot point.
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jsevakis
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Joined: 28 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:35 am Reply with quote
mufurc wrote:
it's just that Japanese swear very differently. Yeah, there are swearwords, but aggressivity is usually expressed in different, not particularly subtle ways. Many anime/manga characters actually have very aggressive speaking patterns (even some main characters - Kurosaki Ichigo, for example) that, if they were translated more closely in style, would probably be full of fucks and shits and all that, because that is the English equivalent. And it would be definitely quite jarring to hear/read - even in Japanese they can only get away with it because they're anime/manga characters, and this style is, naturally, greatly exaggerated. No-one speaks like that in real life, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a very aggressive, hypermasculine style.


Uh... well... I'm not quite sure where you're getting that, but that's not true. Plenty of young, thug types speak even more rough and masculine than the anime character you mention. And if we're talking about the typical Japanese expletives as common in anime, "kuso," "shikusho" and "shimatta," people use those words every day. Granted, you won't find them in Japanese society as often as you would swearing in English speaking society simply because Japan is much more formal in many circumstances. Kids say 'em, thugs say 'em, and even salarymen will shout 'em when drunk.

However, those expletives are acceptable enough that they can be said on kids' TV shows, and most parents wouldn't bother scolding their kids for saying them. They're simply not bad words, just a little crass. Same with casual (and contexutally, rude) ways of saying "you", like "yarou" (commonly translated as a--hole). They don't carry the (largely outdated) taboo that their English equivalents carry. So, when translating, you either have to add that unintended taboo element, or substitute a lesser (and possibly sillier) expletive in its place. Also, let's not forget that if you get TOO creative in coming up with something in its place, the fans jump all over you for being "inaccurate" whether they know Japanese or not. Regardless, that choice has to be made, and nothing you chose will be right on the money.

The REAL taboo words in Japanese culture are usually particularly vicious insults or anatomical references. (See: Ebichu, and the censored for TV version)


Last edited by jsevakis on Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:03 am; edited 2 times in total
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baisengan



Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 26
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:40 am Reply with quote
i can't believe people think that fansubs are protected by the 1st amendment...
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Fallout2man



Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Posts: 271
Location: San Diego, CA
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:40 am Reply with quote
I know I'm an ass for doing this, but I feel unable to stop myself. :p

The first ammendment does not say anything about harmful speech, in fact it flat out says congress cannot make any law abridging the freedom of speech very plainly.

The whole harmful speech thing stemmed from the majority opinion in the supreme court case of Schenck v. United States back during WW1.

That said, you were right about everything else. *thumbs up* and damnit, now I want some pocky. -_- I hate being poor.
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