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The Mike Toole Show - The Soundtrack and the Fury

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Joined: 23 Sep 2010
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Location: Iscandar
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 12:22 pm Reply with quote
A very informative read Mike. I was aware of music being replaced, but that has fortunately not affected my enjoyment of anime shows. There was a weird example of music being replaced in 2012's Kokoro Connect. The song in the OP was performed by eufonius, but it was replaced after an scandal that involved a voice actor being harassed.
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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 12:28 pm Reply with quote
I'm never a fan of replaced music. Eden of the East and Speed Grapher are my top examples of series that work so much better with the original music.

My dad was a fan of the replaced music in the Dragon Ball Z movie Cooler's Revenge, really because he's a big Deftones fan.
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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 1:10 pm Reply with quote
My go-to example for replacement music in anime (and the resultant scene being much less cool than the original) is Girls und Panzer replacing the fantastic scene of the Russian girls singing Katyusha in episode 8 with Tetris music in the international releases. That was a rights/clearance issue, though, not a plagiarism issue.
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Joined: 21 Jan 2009
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Location: Idaho Falls, Idaho
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 1:29 pm Reply with quote
Since you mentioned the Yamamoto controversy with Dragonball Z Kai that not only affected the anime but some of his video game scores as well. He plagiarised some music in the original Dragonball Z Budokai 3 video game. When they released the game again as part of the Budokai PS3 HD Remastered collection they replaced the Budokai 3 soundtrack with music from the Budokai Tenkaichi series. It's still good music, but not as good as the original.

I want to continue the Dragonball Z music trend as well. Not only do you have the Bruce Falconer music for the Funimation dub of DBZ. There is also the other original score composed by Shuki Levy for the edited DBZ episodes released by Funimation and Pioneer in collaboration with Saban Entertainment and the Ocean Group in the 90s. This included the first 3 DBZ movies as well. Of course this resulted in the famous Rock the Dragon opening theme song. I actually enjoyed this soundtrack quite a bit. It gets forgotten by most but not by me. Luckily Funimation released it in all its Glory in the Rock the Dragon DVD set. It's actually quite expensive and a collector's item now.

Then you can go further and talk about the different Canada only produced dubs and original scores of DBZ as well. Go Google it and read for yourself. I'd already went too far in this rabbit hole and I'd rather not write a historical document on this matter. Haha
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Joined: 14 May 2017
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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 1:50 pm Reply with quote
The example of this I was reminded of while reading the article was K-On!, where a cover of Tsubasa wo Kudasai in the first episode was replaced on both audio tracks in Bandai Entertainment's release of the show, though I don't know if this persists in Sentai's reissue of the show. It's worth mentioning that another version of the song plays during a climactic scene in Evangelion 2.22, and remains in Funimation's release.

The tidbit about the Gundam trilogy also reminded me of the same happening to the Patlabor movies. Both films underwent a 5.1 remix for their DVD releases, and only the first movie had its Japanese dialogue rerecorded, but both films have bits of different BGM here and there (off the top of my head, the music playing right before the opening credits of Patlabor 2 differs between versions). Thankfully, the region 2 Blu-rays have both the original stereo and newer surround versions on the disc. I am pretty sure Akira has had similar soundtrack changes over the years, gotta check the Honneamise disc, that actually has three different Japanese mixes on it.

Last edited by helveticastndrd on Sun May 14, 2017 2:02 pm; edited 3 times in total
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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 1:55 pm Reply with quote
My fav example is the replacement of the 1st ending in Nana A little pain with the 2nd ending of Starless night. Did not know the reason for the change. I think the first song was plagiarizing a kelly clarkson song? Not sure about that bit it did pissed me off a little...
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Sakura Shinguji

Joined: 09 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 2:27 pm Reply with quote
People avoid talking about it, pretend it's not real, or are just blissfully unaware, but it should be mentioned that the majority of the music that Yoko Kanno has composed is taking its cues from something else, to a remarkable and sometimes blatant degree.

It's not outright plagiarism (though some folks might want to argue as much in a few instances), but it very often goes beyond simply a vague, hand-waving semi-influence as you can find with most (all?) musicians.

Maybe she's just not as clever as others at making things her own, and can't help but wear her influences super-obviously on her sleeve. And really, if your ear isn't that good and/or your breadth of familiarity with all types of music isn't that wide, then you'll have never noticed how pervasive the issue is (read: most fans). For those who do have that ear and that knowledge, Kanno suddenly becomes at best boring, and at worst disappointing.

As for something already mentioned in the article, it's worth pointing out that almost every BGM song in The Big O is also paying homage to, or ripping off of, existing instrumental pieces, which is why it was always interesting to me that the theme songs were the ones that Sunrise kept having to dodge around. One more obvious example is a clear riff on the theme from The Twilight Zone. Another is a blatantly obvious and straightforward take on Vangelis' ending theme to Blade Runner (regarding Vangelis and Gunbuster, I guess the song from Chariots of Fire is just more well known).
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Top Gun

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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 2:50 pm Reply with quote
Big O is still probably my all-time sentimental favorite anime series, and the original Bandai complete set of season 2 was my very first anime DVD purchase. I'm by far most familiar with the original "Big O!" opening theme, as that's what was being used in most of the [adult swim] reruns I saw in the mid-2000s and I love the hell out of it for all its campy Queen-inspired goodness. I don't remember hearing "Respect" too much at all, outside of its use in snippets as background music, and I wouldn't have recognized it from Gerry Anderson's work anyway. It took me a while to buy season 1, and by then Bandai had re-released both seasons as Anime Legends sets, with the Japanese logo on the cover instead of the familiar giant O. I was disappointed that they'd replaced the classic theme with the "Show Must Go On" theme, not only in the intro but even as an insert song in one of the first few episodes. It bugged me enough that I even went so far as to track down a copy of the original season 1 complete collection with the proper music, and passed along the first one I'd bought to a friend. It'll be a bummer not having the original shows on the Blu-ray, but I guess that's the price one has to pay.

And yeah, it's always a bummer when prominent OP/ED songs have to be replaced due to the costs involved to license them. At least FUNi managed to squeak out a single instance of "Falling Down" for Eden of the East, because it was just a perfect match; poor "Girls on Film" wasn't as lucky. (Though I did have someone who'd seen it say that the OP was the only decent part of Speed Grapher, but your mileage may vary.) I'm still not sure how "Paranoid Android" has managed to stay intact on the various Ergo Proxy re-releases over the years. Beck was a real killer, because not only was it a well-known song, but it played a pivotal role in the climactic scene of the entire series. I watched that one with some friends, and despite how good the dub was, they insisted that we all switch over to an old fansub file for the episodes in question. Above all else, I'm eternally grateful that Jojo Parts 1-2 got to keep "Roundabout," because there would have been words.
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John Thacker

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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 2:55 pm Reply with quote
The original TV broadcast of Vandread used Louis Armstrong's original version of What a Wonderful World in the episode of the same name. The Japanese home video release replaced Satchmo's version with a cover, and the US release replaced the song entirely.

Maison Ikkoku had exactly one episode with Gilbert O'Sullivan opening and endings, not preserved in the US release either.
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John Thacker

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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 2:58 pm Reply with quote
TV Tropes has a pretty good list of these awfully suspicious songs in anime too.
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Get off my lawn!Get off my lawn!

Joined: 11 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 3:14 pm Reply with quote
The original release of the visual novel Muv-Luv has a BGM song, "Conspiracy", which is such a shameless ripoff of Ricky Martin's "Livin' La Vida Loca", that someone has effortlessly mixed the two together on YouTube as Livin' La Vida Muv-Luv. And it is the funniest damn thing. The BGM song was replaced in subsequent releases, including last year's English-language Steam release.
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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 3:41 pm Reply with quote
I always had a weird fondness for a music cue in the first Yozakura Quartet TV series that was a very obvious lift of the beginning of "Dazed and Confused" by Led Zeppelin. Both because it was pretty shameless lift and because "Dazed and Confused" has it's own long, weird history of being a pretty blatant example of lifting/plagiarizing another song. Regardless, it always amused me.
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Lord Geo

Joined: 18 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 4:42 pm Reply with quote
I've come across some pretty blatant examples in anime when the music composer might have gone a little too far with sampling. A perfectly egregious one is in Yakitate!! Japan, where Taku Iwasaki's BG song "Daybreak Symphony" completely relies on the backing beat of Queen's "We Will Rock You" for the entire song. Granted, it's an outstanding song, but it's impossible to ignore. To be fair, though, Iwasaki is kind of known for heavily sampling or reinterpreting other songs, so this isn't anything surprising.

Also, Iwasaki isn't the only person in anime to outright use "We Will Rock You" so blatantly. The OP theme for DT Eightron, "Hi wa Mata Nobori Kurikaesu" by Dragon Ash, also features the same backing beat, but at least here it's only for the beginning, solely to set up the rest of song.

Without a doubt, though, the funniest one I've ever come across was in the anime Monkey Turn, a sports anime about kyotei racing. Since there is seemingly no OST release I can't find the exact title of it, but one song in Daisuke Ikeda's soundtrack for the first season absolutely, positively copies beat to "Where is the Love?" by The Black Eyed Peas wholesale, less than a year after the song originally debuted. It's generally used during more upbeat moments between characters, so it appears in the show rather often.

As for theme songs being removed due to "rights issues", look for further than any time Tokio does an anime theme. Johnny & Associates values that boy band so insanely high that very few anime actually feature songs by them, but every single time one does it's never included for international release (supposedly because the costs J&A asks for are insane), as seen with their songs for Kodocha & The Skull Man (not sure if their Soar High! Isami theme was kept in, but if so it might have helped lead to the death of Hirameki). The most annoying part of this is that J&A aren't necessarily overvaluing Tokio, because the group is honestly rather good, and all of the themes I've heard from the group are really enjoyable. Coincidentally, though, a Tokio song hasn't been used for anime since Skull Man, so maybe Japanese companies got smart to J&A's scheme.

A really interesting oddity, though, is when theme songs are seemingly removed after-the-fact in Japan. For example, Grappler Baki's theme songs by Project Baki ("Ai Believe" & "all alone") got replaced by "Child Prey" by Dir en grey for FUNimation's release of the show, but then that change has been kept in Japan ever since 2006's internet airings & even on Animax (at least, according to Wikipedia Japan). Another example is for Yamato Takeru. The first OP theme, "Manatsu no Tobira" by GLAY, has apparently only ever been used for the initial TV airing (& maybe the old VHS releases), but since then all releases just use the second OP, "Flower of Desert" by Naoko Hamasaki, for the entire show; the first OP's animation is kept, but Hamasaki's song is used & even credited.

Man, music rights are just crazy.
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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 5:18 pm Reply with quote
Ocean also did a dub of the second half of DBZ, using FUNi's script, that aired exclusively in Canada and parts of Europe in the early 2000s. It's hard to find now, and really not very good, but it recycled lots of music from the Mega-Man cartoon from the 90s. No idea why.
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Joe Carpenter

Joined: 29 Oct 2011
Posts: 499
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 5:42 pm Reply with quote
Big O! Big O Big O Big OOOOOOOOO!

That really sucks that they replaced that song. Sad
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