Forum - View topic
The Mike Toole Show - Canada's Anime Legacy


Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
dragonmastr



Joined: 09 Feb 2012
Posts: 105
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:58 pm Reply with quote
Nostalgia galore!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jr240483



Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 3949
Location: New York City,New York,USA
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:24 pm Reply with quote
dragonmastr wrote:
Nostalgia galore!


unfortunately for some, the bad outway the good. especially when it came to the nelvana versions of CCS, and kiddie shows like beyblade (though it improved somewhat with the heavy metal series) , & bakugan battle brawlers! its bad dub like those that made some US born anime fans into hardcore dub hating/sub only elitists!


Last edited by jr240483 on Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:38 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Posts Sometimes



Joined: 27 Jul 2014
Posts: 26
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:53 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
nobody can watch Primo TV unless they live in the parts of Provo, UT and Spokane, WA that get the channel over the air

Huh? I thought Comcast carried that channel most places (or at least places unfortunate enough to be stuck with Comcast). I get it in Virginia.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sakura Shinguji



Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 133
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:56 pm Reply with quote
In my mind, the most regrettable thing about Ocean's dub work is that its legacy among people who were into anime from that time tends to be one of "oh, the studio with the kinda bad dubs."

Their various work on more liberally-adapted titles tends to stick in the mind, as well as their uneven work from their early days of leaning too heavily on WordFit. I very much agree with Mike about how clunky some of their dubs ended up due to using WordFit as a cure-all to save money by cutting down on booth time; I believe it was Mark Hildreth who in some interview or another recounted his time recording for Heero in Gundam Wing being a lot of SINGLE TAKES that would just get massaged into place via WordFit in post.

But it's worth highlighting how in the 2000s they dumped WordFit and seriously upped their quality game. I believe it was Pioneer/Geneon at a certain point who was willing to entertain the sort of budget and scheduling required for "better" dubs. Certain fans can point to Ocean's dub of The SoulTaker as more or less a turning point for Ocean dubs. And dubs for titles like Black Lagoon and Gundam 00 can easily go toe to toe with any of their contemporaries from other studios.

Even the oft-maligned Blue Water studio in Calgary, versus the flagship in Vancouver, was putting out quality work. The dub they produced for Strawberry Marshmallow is seriously underrated (as is the show itself, in my opinion).

So, it's very unfortunate that a studio that was really the best it had ever been, was at that point cut out of the U.S. anime production scene. Considering how workmanlike some dubs can get from the existing studios, particularly under such circumstances as Funimation's simuldubbing timelines, it's a shame that there isn't another player in the arena, to at the very least provide some variety.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SnowWarren



Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 185
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:05 pm Reply with quote
Don't forget Monster Rancher, they did that one too.

In the UK, it was always the Ocean and Blue Water dubs of Dragon Ball, Z and GT that aired and it's those voices I think of when I imagine the characters. I definitely wouldn't mind a copy of each of those to own. Same with the original Sailor Moon and Cardcaptors dubs.

I'll always hope that one day we'll start getting a few more dubs from Canada just for some variety.

Hopefully Toei reaches a deal with Wow TV and we finally get to see the long awaited Ocean dub of DBZ Kai.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Silver Kirin



Joined: 09 Aug 2018
Posts: 11
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:25 pm Reply with quote
It's really interesting as a latin-american to discover that not all english dubs were done in the United States, though to be fair the English I studied was British English and most media I consume is from the US so I am not familiar how Canadians talk.
Speaking of which, here in lat-am most dubs are made in Mexico, but some series mentioned in this article like Beyblade were dubbed in Venezuela using Nelvana's version as the basis. It was really easy to tell the difference which anime was adapted from the Japanese version and which was dubbed from the english version (westernized names as the article said, the omision of openings and endings). However, some spanish dubs were made in Los Angeles, mainly TMS shows like Rayearth and Detective Conan
I'm glad that series like Cardcaptor Sakura and Digimon were translated from the japanese here, but the american adaptations like Pokémon, Medabots and Beyblade were also enjoyable.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GoldCrusader



Joined: 25 Apr 2017
Posts: 850
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:30 pm Reply with quote
I'll forever be sad that Nozomi is re-casting Gundam SEED/DESTINY . It always had some of the best dub performance out there imo. Patrick Zala, Gilbert Durandal, Mu la flaga, Andrew Waltfed and the most glorious and unbeatable Mark Oliver as Rau le Creuset. Episode 43 of SEED is GOAT material.

Inuyasha and Wing EW are some other fav of mine. I love my Canadian dubs. They are great.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GeorgeC



Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 615
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:53 pm Reply with quote
Silver Kirin wrote:
It's really interesting as a latin-american to discover that not all english dubs were done in the United States, though to be fair the English I studied was British English and most media I consume is from the US so I am not familiar how Canadians talk.


If you want a better example of how Canadians REALLY speak (generally), watch the Kids in the Hall comedy TV series and avoid the old SCTV "McKenzie Brothers" skits.

With some celebrities, they tend to emphasize their "local accents" to give them a bigger, broader screen persona hence the McKenzie Brothers REALLY amping up their Canadian accents and using words like "hoser" a billion times more often than most Canadians ever did. The McKenzie Brothers were played as morons so the comedians emphasized what they thought was partying, moronic behavior in their characters. The late Steve Irwin (the Crocodile Hunter) was infamous for "broadening" his Australian accent to make himself stick out more. Half the people in his home country hated his guts from playing up the old Aussie accent and abusing the word "Crikey!"

(Of course, The Kids in the Hall, were also trying to get jobs in the US because it's a bigger, better-paying market than Canada is generally so they had incentive to lose any major accents they might have had. Those guys were also generally good mimics, too!)

Just like the US, the Canadian accent can be very local. People in Nova Scotia may not talk like guys from Calgary or Vancouver. Honestly, the last time I was in Canada, I was in Vancouver for about a month and I hardly noticed any differences from what I'm used to in the US and I'm from the Midwest US, capital of the bland accent unless you're from Minnesota and those guys sound like half the people living in the suburbs outside of Toronto! (Many Minnesotans sound like the McKenzie Brothers!) Btw, if anybody HAD talked any way that I thought sounded funny (and I NEVER ran across that and there were plenty of different people in Vancouver; lots of Asians, btw) I would have kept my mouth shut anyway because A) I was a visitor to their country and didn't want to get in trouble with the locals(!) and B) I actually LIKE hearing different accents. It's sometimes a challenge to figure out what people are saying but it's more interesting than if everyone DID talk the same way! So, no, I don't have a problem with accents. I understand WHY they don't hard accents in most TV productions and films but in real life it'd be boring if everyone spoke exactly alike!

I have heard a bit of an accent from my cousin's wife (who's from the Toronto area) but it's not a huge thing. Same with slight differences in vocabulary. They seem to like using the word "bloody" quite a bit (like the British) when they curse but that's not a big thing.

Most Canadian actors, if they want to work in the US, work on getting rid of their "Canadian accents" but I imagine they have an easier time of it than people from the Deep South US who have to get rid of their "Georgian" accents and learn to speak more like people from the Midwest or Pacific West.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ashley Hakker



Joined: 31 Aug 2016
Posts: 71
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:13 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
the old Ocean Studios dub of Escaflowne was more or less replaced by a new Funimation version, as part of their Kickstarter campaign. After some steady complaining on the parts of completists (yours truly included), Funimation threw in the older dub as a separate, DVD-only deal; it was still no longer the definitive English version.


Er, My Escaflowne Bluray set DEF has both dubs on the Blu-ray discs as well. Infact, since there was a 'broadcast edit' for the first 7eps of Escaflowne, there's a seperate disc for these eps with the old dub and the Japanese dialogue, and another disc with the uncut eps and the new dub and Japanese dialogue. Though Eps 8-26 the discs just have both dub tracks since there's no new content to account for. So unless you meant 'Home video only, and not streaming' when you said 'DVD only', it was def not 'DVD Only'.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Primus



Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Posts: 2355
Location: Toronto
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:25 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Obviously, my first question was, “Where the hell are the other ten episodes?!”


Maybe Ammo Content only picked up the first 52? The new dub was done for all of Black Jack 2004, including 21.

It's really strange how the dub features localized names. Because this was a new company and not Ocean, it's hard to know if they did that on their own, or if they were instructed to.

Quote:
There is one enormous chunk of Canada's anime legacy that hasn't yet been overwritten or tossed aside, and that's Beyblade, the massive battlin'-top toy franchise that's up to about four or five hundred TV episodes, every last one of them dubbed in Toronto or Vancouver.


Beyblade's relation to Canada is a pretty unique one. It started with Nelvana licensing the first series, but the next time around they directly co-produced the shows. It was common for kids anime to feature replacement scores in the west. For these Beyblade shows, the original scores were composed in Toronto. That includes in the background music in the Japanese version. The composers have shared their thoughts on the experience:

Quote:
Second is Beyblade. It was an extremely challenging show as I was working directly with Japanese production. I had translators and everything… EXCEPT PICTURE! I’d get endless lists of music requests with a brief description and the number of seconds required, like, “Image of courage bursting through heart of dragon: 120 seconds”. All notes were translated from Japanese—lots of humorous confusion. I was literally writing blind. The Music Supervisor at Nelvana, Norm Beaver (who’s also my Bossman on Bravest) saved my life as the client liaison. I seriously don’t know how else I’d have made it through!

http://frederatorstudios.com/neil-parfitt-the-frederator-interview/

Quote:
One of the most challenging scoring projects Marin worked on was the popular 26-episode animation series, BeyWarriors: Cyborg produced in Japan.

“I had to rely only on the character sketches and written instructions for each 2 minutes music segment,” recalls Marin. “To add to the challenge, there were about 200 minutes of music to compose with a very fast turnaround, amounting to roughly 4-5 minutes of new material per day. So, in a situation like that, the adrenaline is flowing and you feel exhilarated when you complete the task.”

https://www.videomaker.com/article/f12/19140-how-catalin-marin-built-his-career-as-an-award-winning-film-composer

But something went off as that second generation of Beyblade was coming to an end. The last of three spinoffs produced for the western market, never launched here. While Nelvana co-produced the show like usual, with Toronto musicians doing the opening/ending themes and background score, they ducked out. The show would later wind up airing on Toonami in South East Asia ... with an English dub recorded in Hong Kong.

Nelvana has largely been uninvolved with Beyblade Burst, though they represent the property for merch licensing in Canada and France. They're currently working with TMS and Spin Master on a Bakugan reboot. They're also developing stuff with Sumitomo and OLM is helping them out with a new domestic series. Nelvana were cooking up a Battle of the Planets reboot with d-rights, but they haven't said a word on that in a few years.

Quote:
I'm pretty sure that the latest show to be screened on YTV was originally titled Beyblade Burst God, as in “God, I can't believe how much damn Beyblade there is.” The franchise's currently-airing-in-Japan season will probably show up on YTV sometime next year, like clockwork.


Just a minor correction here, Beyblade Burst airs on Teletoon, not YTV. YTV dropped all anime programming (which didn't amount to much) in 2014, with most of the remaining series winding up on Teletoon. YTV and Teletoon are both owned by the same company, but YTV is in more households.

The Canadian broadcast landscape has been pretty dire for anime since the 2010s rolled in. As it stands, anime on English Canadian TV is limited to just Beyblade, Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh. French Canada also has those three and Chi's New Address on Radio-Canada. I noticed that the Canadian Viceland channel was the only English-language Viceland to not run any anime. The American, Australian and British versions have all run at least one show. Thankfully, most (though, not all) of the geo-blocking that kept us away from streaming services in the late 2000s and early 2010s have fallen.

Sakura Shinguji wrote:
Even the oft-maligned Blue Water studio in Calgary, versus the flagship in Vancouver, was putting out quality work. The dub they produced for Strawberry Marshmallow is seriously underrated (as is the show itself, in my opinion).


First impressions are important. When Blue Water started, there wasn't much of a voice acting scene in Calgary. The city has just never been a media production hub like Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver. Pre-Blue Water, it's difficult to come up with any animated shows that were recorded there. Maybe some of those actors had roles in the very early Bioware games? That likely would've been it. So those early projects would've been with actors entirely new to voice acting, with their first two big projects being part of established franchises ...

Unfortunately, I'm not sure Blue Water will ever shake the stigma from those early shows. Like the mother ship in Vancouver, they've largely shifted to working on children's shows that don't appeal to the typical anime fan. That's not to say they haven't improved, because they really have. Kiznaiver is very well done and that is predominantly an Alberta cast. If it weren't for some weak performances from the supporting cast, I'd say the current Cardfight Vanguard reboot's dub is the best a trading card commercial has ever sounded. Heck, even Pretty Cure, which is almost 10 years old now, marked a significant jump over what they did before and in many respects is a much better production than what the franchise would later see with experienced LA anime actors.

Posts Sometimes wrote:
Quote:
nobody can watch Primo TV unless they live in the parts of Provo, UT and Spokane, WA that get the channel over the air

Huh? I thought Comcast carried that channel most places (or at least places unfortunate enough to be stuck with Comcast). I get it in Virginia.


I thought Comcast operated nationally? This doesn't look like national carriage to me.

There's got to be a story on how a channel with that limited distribution got interested in anime. I'm pretty convinced they're funding the Captain Tsubasa dub, which would explain why it's recorded in Miami and not LA, like all of Viz's newer shows.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Levonr



Joined: 19 Nov 2003
Posts: 587
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:02 pm Reply with quote
GoldCrusader wrote:
I'll forever be sad that Nozomi is re-casting Gundam SEED/DESTINY . It always had some of the best dub performance out there imo. Patrick Zala, Gilbert Durandal, Mu la flaga, Andrew Waltfed and the most glorious and unbeatable Mark Oliver as Rau le Creuset. Episode 43 of SEED is GOAT material.


Well I'm beyond happy SEED is being re-dubbed by a much better dub studio & cast IMO. Never liked the low quality Ocean dub. I do agree Mark Oliver was amazing but a few good performances can't save that dub for me. Don't get me started on Durandal, Ted Cole was such a miscast. I hope Keith Silverstein gets that role.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Sulfy



Joined: 15 May 2018
Posts: 76
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:47 pm Reply with quote
Whenever I read someone complaining about dubs, I remember these ones and think about how far most dubs have come.

I definitely agree that I wish some of these would be preserved in some way or another, if anything, as a testament to the work of others.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Joe Mello



Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 2055
Location: Tekkoshocon
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:30 pm Reply with quote
The one regret I had attending a Kirby Morrow (Miroku from Inuyasha) panel was not asking what he thought about working with MacGuyver.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NJ_



Joined: 31 Oct 2009
Posts: 1846
Location: Wallington, NJ
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:59 pm Reply with quote
Been playing Mega Man X8 lately from the second Legacy Collection (on my fourth playthrough right now) and in addition to the game being as good as I remembered playing in 2004, the Blue Water dub cast still holds up to me and this game, along with Command Mission, Maverick Hunter X (which both REALLY should have been in this collection) and Powered Up, is the main reason why the Blue Water cast will always be a favorite to me.

Quote:
There are obviously gonna be some hurdles to getting the old material out there; the original Sailor Moon dub is so heavily edited it would have to be a stand-alone product, and there might be weird licensing issues with the western-made background music. Still, Viz probably could at least include the Cloverway dubs of Sailor Moon S and SuperS on those releases, but they're absent.


The Cloverway dubs weren't exactly uncut either since the next episode previews were missing and to include it in Viz's sets would require either creating a second "song & sign" sub track (with Japanese audio for the previews along with a disclaimer like with Ranma) or inserting a music-only version of the preview themes for each of them (like Media Blasters did for Magic Knight Rayearth's remastered anniversary DVDs).

The movies not having the old Pioneer dubs there is no excuse for because those were uncut, had the Japanese score (unlike the TV and edited VHS versions which had the DiC score) and should have been included in the Viz sets with their new dubs.

Quote:
Of these examples, only Dragon Ball Z got a fair shake after the fact. Long after Funimation took DBZ dubbing in-house to get the show finished, and later circled back to get the earlier material dubbed by their cast, they released something on DVD called the “Rock the Dragon” edition—a release that included every Ocean Studios Dragon Ball Z episode that aired on American TV, just as it was. I don't think that this version broke any sales records (though it bears mentioning that every last copy eventually sold out and it goes for $200ish on eBay; remember, when your discs go outta print, you'll make a mint!), but Funimation recognized something interesting and important about how the show was originally presented.


And yet nothing for the original dub of the first 13 episodes & movie of Dragon Ball...

The Rock The Dragon release was interesting but also flawed.

Pro: Some of the episodes were from the original syndicated run, as shown here, the Pioneer single DVDs had episodes that were shown when the old dub went into re-runs so there are dialogue differences between them.

Con: The movies were the edited TV versions and in the case of movie 3, was the original version (which can also be considered a Pro for collectors because this particular dub was never released on video prior to this set).

FUNi has done nothing with the uncut Ocean dubs of those three movies since Geneon's distribution license expired in 2003. Hopefully this changes now that Japan is releasing their own HD remaster of the movies (and FUNi's going to want it because it's better than their own remaster and people will want to buy them again).

Quote:
This old stuff is worth saving, so I'd love to see a “Fighting Evil by Moonlight” edition of Sailor Moon from Viz.


Would be great but I'm not getting my hopes up.

Quote:
About a decade back, Toei decided that they wanted to turn their Pretty Cure series into a hit in North America, so they went to Ocean Studios to get the first series dubbed, and shopped it around aggressively at licensing shows like MIPcom. Nobody took a chance on Precure… except YTV, who duly aired the adventures of Cure White and Cure Black a good year or two before the franchise became a neverending cult hit with magical girl nerds around the globe.


And the UK got it on the PopGirl network (with the dubbed next episode previews missing) and IIRC, it also aired on Cartoon Network in Australia & New Zealand.

Quote:
Toei may have worked with their partners to put aside the old Sailor Moon dubs, but they better not take Canadian Pretty Cure away from me. I want Hannah Goddamn Whitestone and Natalie Bloody Blackstone on Blu-Ray, dagnabbit!


SD Blu-ray that is (or DVD), I want that dub on disc myself but not another garbage upscale (which I expect it to be when Japan starts releasing the earlier seasons on the format).

Quote:
A significant but as-yet-unknown quantity of World Trigger was dubbed at Ocean at the behest of Toei, who wanted to make it the next Shonen Jump hit series. Sadly, the anime is nowhere near as good as the manga...


Got that right, the show was produced during one of Toei's worst periods (2014-2016, half of which they had way too many other shows produced at the same time) and turned out to be a worse adaptation than Toriko. Still surprises me that Toei even bothered to have it dubbed here.

Quote:
Also Ocean. SEED might be facing a redub, but Sunrise and Nozomi are getting ready to release a fancy-pants collector's set of G-Gundam that includes the corny, altogether wonderful dub made in Calgary. I look forward to once again hearing Mark Gatha and Dave Pettit as Domon and Master Asia starting the series off with these halting, shouty performances, then gradually growing into their roles to neatly match the show's titanic finish.


Looking forward to that Ultra Edition myself, was hesitant at first but went for it as soon as I learned the Imagawa text interview from Bandai's DVDs are exclusive to the book that's included......plus the Tequila Gundam shot glass is a pretty funny thing to include with this set. Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kadmos1



Joined: 08 May 2014
Posts: 11660
Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:29 am Reply with quote
If the economy was better, along if Geneon and Bandai USA had not folded, then I think we would have seen a higher output of recent Ocean dubs.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 1 of 4

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group