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DARLING in the FRANXX At Crunchyroll Expo 2018


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Kadmos1



Joined: 08 May 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:15 am Reply with quote
How were Kokoro and Mitsuru's gender roles seen as controversial?
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seltzermx
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Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 51
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:40 am Reply with quote
Kadmos1 wrote:
How were Kokoro and Mitsuru's gender roles seen as controversial?


It was controversial to the ANN staff reviewing the show. Because "heteronormativity" or something. Apparently they've never seen an anime where a boy and a girl end up together.
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FilthyCasual



Joined: 01 Jun 2015
Posts: 1211
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:58 am Reply with quote
Wait, they winged the story? That explains the aliens.

At any rate, I'm glad they got the great reception that they deserved! I'd have liked to be there.
Kadmos1 wrote:
How were Kokoro and Mitsuru's gender roles seen as controversial?

Since robots = sex at first, Mitsuru being mad that Hiro forgot their promise to ride together = Mitsuru loves Hiro. Then robots stopped equaling sex so clearly and Mitsuru shacked up with Kokoro. I like Franxx, but that was not the logical development given what viewers originally got.
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your fly is down



Joined: 14 Jan 2018
Posts: 22
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:30 pm Reply with quote
Writes the most homosexual male and female character in an anime.
Male character finds closure in suppressing desires and becoming the most heterosexual character in anime.
Female character is never given closure and dies early in a from a disease so that others can live better (and maybe gets a partner in last episode)
Character with eating disorders never clears up his state of mind grows a moustache and has kids.
Two characters experience no growth whatsoever.
One character just leaves and comes back to become a dad.
Main couple live forever together in their heterosexual love.

Yeah seems like logical writing. Be straight and be happy or be homosexual ( or obese) and give up on yourselves.

Look i get it the story was made up as it went along and was made to appeal to as many people as possible who would be willing to buy products (just like gundam) well im not one of them cause none of the characters were written well enough to warrant me likeing em
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BodaciousSpacePirate
It's Over 9000!It's Over 9000!


Joined: 17 Apr 2015
Posts: 2550
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:01 pm Reply with quote
I found it interesting that -- despite the fact that it's stated that there wasn't a "message about gender" planned out in advance -- the director's seemingly off-the-cuff statements about gender sounded very similar to what critics claimed the show's message about gender to be.

your fly is down wrote:
Writes the most homosexual male and female character in an anime.
Male character finds closure in suppressing desires and becoming the most heterosexual character in anime.
Female character is never given closure and dies early in a from a disease so that others can live better (and maybe gets a partner in last episode)
Character with eating disorders never clears up his state of mind grows a moustache and has kids.
Two characters experience no growth whatsoever.
One character just leaves and comes back to become a dad.
Main couple live forever together in their heterosexual love.

Yeah seems like logical writing. Be straight and be happy or be homosexual ( or obese) and give up on yourselves.


Putting aside the idea of whether a character can be "most homosexual" or "most heterosexual" or not, I think that the story's treatment of these characters does logically follow from the views on gender that the director expresses in this interview. The extent to which I disagree with these views or messages doesn't seem particularly relevant to how sensical I found the storyline. In a lot of ways, I find the plot developments that you frame as illogical to be fairly similar to something like Shakugan no Shana, in the sense that people behave out of character in order to move the story towards the author's desired endgame.
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Kicksville



Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Posts: 655
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:12 pm Reply with quote
That whole explosion over episode 14 certainly was embarrassing, especially considering it was over a fairly typical plot development that usually is (and was) resolved in an episode or two. I want to believe it was all bratty 12 year olds who just discovered anime, but, siiiigh, I know better...
BodaciousSpacePirate wrote:
In a lot of ways, I find the plot developments that you frame as illogical to be fairly similar to something like Shakugan no Shana, in the sense that people behave out of character in order to move the story towards the author's desired endgame.

Sounds about right. The results were massively disappointing, but, sounds about right.
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Zhou-BR



Joined: 28 Feb 2008
Posts: 894
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:14 pm Reply with quote
When I look back on this show, I just get frustrated that they gathered such a talented staff of artists and forgot to hire a decent head writer.
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your fly is down



Joined: 14 Jan 2018
Posts: 22
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:15 pm Reply with quote
Except in shakugan no shana most characters were given some closure and the story felt like it had some catharsis.
Where as in franxx from episode one the show seemed to be about the idea of male and female interaction in respect to a greater society ( like how from episode one of EVA it was about shinjis growth in relation to society)
Not saying the plot was illogical just saying in terms of a story attempting philosophy it broke down into a show about conservative ideals.
It all made sense in the creators mind but not in the audience who were left angry about how all the build up since episode one was meaningless.
I realise it was my mistake to think of the show as any form of food for the mind. But my disappointment is immeasurable and my experience is ruined.
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Jonny Mendes



Joined: 17 Oct 2014
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Location: Europe
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:33 pm Reply with quote
your fly is down wrote:

Not saying the plot was illogical just saying in terms of a story attempting philosophy it broke down into a show about conservative ideals.
It all made sense in the creators mind but not in the audience who were left angry about how all the build up since episode one was meaningless.


It all depends on the audience. The show was not controversial for his main target, the Japanese audience (expect the mentioned episode 14). Even in most of the mainland European audience there was not the backlash that come from parts of the US audience.

My main issue was the alien plot and the bittersweet last episode. But overall was a entertaining anime and i loved Hiro x Zero Two pair and the giant space waifu.
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Scherzo



Joined: 27 Feb 2013
Posts: 145
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:36 pm Reply with quote
I think one of the weirdest thing, thematically, to me is the sort of bait-and-switch of the heterosexual pairings seeming to be mandated by a totalitarian regime, only for it to half way through decide 'no actually heterosexual relationships are transgressive'. It's such a weird deal, IMO, and hard to characterize other than clumsy.
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jenthehen



Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 696
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:53 pm Reply with quote
Scherzo wrote:
I think one of the weirdest thing, thematically, to me is the sort of bait-and-switch of the heterosexual pairings seeming to be mandated by a totalitarian regime, only for it to half way through decide 'no actually heterosexual relationships are transgressive'. It's such a weird deal, IMO, and hard to characterize other than clumsy.


The biggest issue, I think, is that while it was airing, fans kept trying to figure out what all the metaphors and symbolism MEANT and how it all tied together ... when none of it meant anything. Fans were giving the creators way too much credit and assuming it was going to be smart ... when it was really just stuff the creators thought looked cool and imagery and tropes stolen from better shows.
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Aquasakura



Joined: 01 Jan 2014
Posts: 577
Location: Chesterfield, Virginia, U.S.A
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:55 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Fukushima spoke about the harassment he faced on social media after the airing of episode 14. “My Twitter account exploded halfway through the series, but for better or worse I learned that a whole lot of people watched this series, not just in Japan. I kept hearing all the voices from Japan and overseas – it made me feel like people are actually watching what I'm doing, so it was actually a good feeling in the end. I can't go to sleep when the Twitter notifications are going off, though, so please hold off on your passion for a bit.”


Quote:
Well, the reaction for episode 14 was unexpected. Episode 13 created a little hubbub, but episode 14 just exploded – mostly it was from overseas. Not many Japanese people expressed hatred, but we got plenty of hate mail from America and Europe. We were taken by surprise, but it isn't going to change how we do things. Besides, all that feedback died down by episode 15.


I am impress with how Yūichi Fukushima handle the harassment. It seems that instead of letting the toxic messages get to him he decided to view in a much different light. In his case he saw it as fact or reminder that there are also people outside of his country who are watching and care about the anime he help make. I do not know if I am that emotionally strong myself, and being reminded of what happen months ago makes me a bit furious at those people who sent him those messages on the inside, but Yūichi must really have good resilience.
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#MuhBael



Joined: 05 Sep 2018
Posts: 8
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:24 pm Reply with quote
Really happy with this interview. Props to Nishigori for sticking to what he believes
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PrecureOjisan



Joined: 09 Jan 2018
Posts: 11
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:32 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Q: The gender politics of the show were quite controversial, particularly the relationship between Mitsuru and Kokoro. What message were you trying to communicate and what sort of response did you expect?


I really don't get what's the big deal with gender and romance in media nowadays. If the creator wanted to make a media that focuses on het romance then that's it, period. Why do people feel the need to harass the creators for that? It's their creation, it's how they wanted things to be.

Same thing with shows like Granblue Fantasy and the upcoming Fate/Grand Order anime. Technically if it follows the game the sex of the MC doesn't matter. The creators just decided to make the MC a male. For all we know they decided by flipping a coin. When does the sex of the MC decide whether or not a show is going to be good or bad?
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Jonny Mendes



Joined: 17 Oct 2014
Posts: 890
Location: Europe
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:58 pm Reply with quote
PrecureOjisan wrote:

I really don't get what's the big deal with gender and romance in media nowadays. If the creator wanted to make a media that focuses on het romance then that's it, period. Why do people feel the need to harass the creators for that? It's their creation, it's how they wanted things to be.
The harassment was because of Ichigo's actions in episode 14 during the love triangle between Hiro, Zero Two, and Ichigo. #Bitchigo hashtag was created during that period of harassment.

Nothing to do with the Franxx gender controversy that happened in US
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