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NEWS: Project-H Brand Manager Talks About Online Store Closure, Relaunch Possibilities




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#884745
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Joined: 08 Jul 2018
Posts: 231
Location: Ikebukuro
PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:06 pm Reply with quote
I feel like Western sites are getting a really toxic attitude towards erotic art nowadays, and the problem is, audiences seem to be going along with it, instead of fleeing those sites altogether like they should. I've even seen artists say they're going to stop drawing ero things just because they won't be able to post it on Tumblr.

On one hand, I hope that that means that Asian sites and markets have more control over the tastes in ero art, because their tastes are better - more BL pretty boys and less of the big hairy brutes that Westerners want males to look like - but on the other hand, banning ero art is so backwards, I wish the world would just grow up already and treat ero art the same as anything else.

If anything should get a content warning, it's graphic violence, not sex. Sex is never wrong. More sex is good for the world.
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Catsplay



Joined: 24 Sep 2015
Posts: 298
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:18 am Reply with quote
Gotta love the censorship of fictional content (That's sarcasm by the way). I'm really getting annoyed that every-time this series comes close to finally being legally available over seas it keeps getting blocked every single time by bias as fudge parties trying to restrict what can be sold to adults. Guess at this rate I'll never own physical copies of Kodomo No Jikan and will have to just download it.
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all-tsun-and-no-dere



Joined: 06 Jul 2015
Posts: 100
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:55 am Reply with quote
"No presenting children in a sexual manner" is a perfectly reasonable restriction for a privately-run service to place on its vendors. If the people who run it don't want to be involved with the sexualization of children, that's fair and, dare I say it, a more common sense attitude than anime fandom would have you believe. If I ran a service like shopify, I wouldn't want things like Kodomo no Jikan and 15-year-old gravure idols on my site either!

It isn't anti-porn or anti-erotica, it's anti-pedophilia.
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luffypirate



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 3134
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 1:00 am Reply with quote
Wow that’s crazy. I really like the manga and anime. I own it all too! Sad to see this happen.
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FinalVentCard



Joined: 28 Oct 2018
Posts: 58
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 1:02 am Reply with quote
It's almost like licensing the manga that got passed over the first time around because no store wanted to touch a manga that sexually depicted children was a bad idea.

My mother was an Elementary school teacher and some of her coworkers worked with sexually abused children. I've got nothing but distaste for this series. I'd feel bad for Project-H basically falling into a hole, but they made their bed. spoiler[They could have licensed Nana to Kaworu instead, but no.]

So, business lesson: you can take a leap of faith on something and die on a hill, but that won't make things work out for ya. There's your free market at work!
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Hiroki not Takuya



Joined: 17 Apr 2012
Posts: 1174
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 2:48 am Reply with quote
#884745 wrote:
...the problem is, audiences seem to be going along with it, instead of fleeing those sites altogether like they should. I've even seen artists say they're going to stop drawing ero things just because they won't be able to post it on Tumblr....
If anything should get a content warning, it's graphic violence, not sex. Sex is never wrong. More sex is good for the world.
To the first part, maybe audiences are telling you that they don't want ero as much as you do. To the second part, I totally agree and have said so in the forums many times. It boggles the mind that people who should know better claim depictions of violence don't desensitize viewers to it in real life and encourage it for some while it seems the same crowd love to show how offended they are by sexually explicit material.

To the last part, I suggest a proviso though. Sex is a powerful and multifacted force in people's emotional lives and even depictions of it need to be treated with respect and care, lest viewers develop attitudes toward sexual behaviour that lead to poor choices and much emotional hurt either for themselves or their partners (victims?). So there is sex which is "wrong" and more of that sort will not make the world better.
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configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 3681
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 9:39 am Reply with quote
FinalVentCard wrote:
It's almost like licensing the manga that got passed over the first time around because no store wanted to touch a manga that sexually depicted children was a bad idea.

My mother was an Elementary school teacher and some of her coworkers worked with sexually abused children. I've got nothing but distaste for this series. I'd feel bad for Project-H basically falling into a hole, but they made their bed. spoiler[They could have licensed Nana to Kaworu instead, but no.]

So, business lesson: you can take a leap of faith on something and die on a hill, but that won't make things work out for ya. There's your free market at work!

First of all maybe you should get to grips with what Kodomo no Jikan actually involves. KnJ is not even a Project-H license, since it's not hentai in the least. It was hosted on eManga NOT Project-H's site and DMP took it down as a precaution since Shopify refused to name what specific hentai titles they had issues with on Project-H since DMP didn't want the rest of eManga.com to be affected as well.

Second, the current market is hardly free considering how regulated and restrictive it is. All content is not treated equally by virtue of government coercion. Shopify being based in Canada is subject to even more restriction. The licensing of KnJ was not a leap of faith but rather answering the calls of consumers who already paid for it by their Kickstarter campaign. What does Nana to Kaworu or any other arbitrary manga have to do with it? Manga is not mutually exclusive.

Finally, despite the regulations there is still some hope because other participants in the market can currently operate. They just need to find what ecommerce services that other participants are using like Righstuf, JList, JAST, Fakku, mangagamer, etc
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johnnysasaki



Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 620
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:55 am Reply with quote
by the way,Amazon also banned the later digital volumes of To Love-Ru Darkness.Gotta buy those ebooks through other stores...
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HoboSoup



Joined: 06 Aug 2017
Posts: 332
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 1:36 pm Reply with quote
Hiroki not Takuya wrote:
#884745 wrote:
...the problem is, audiences seem to be going along with it, instead of fleeing those sites altogether like they should. I've even seen artists say they're going to stop drawing ero things just because they won't be able to post it on Tumblr....
If anything should get a content warning, it's graphic violence, not sex. Sex is never wrong. More sex is good for the world.
To the first part, maybe audiences are telling you that they don't want ero as much as you do. To the second part, I totally agree and have said so in the forums many times. It boggles the mind that people who should know better claim depictions of violence don't desensitize viewers to it in real life and encourage it for some while it seems the same crowd love to show how offended they are by sexually explicit material.

To the last part, I suggest a proviso though. Sex is a powerful and multifacted force in people's emotional lives and even depictions of it need to be treated with respect and care, lest viewers develop attitudes toward sexual behaviour that lead to poor choices and much emotional hurt either for themselves or their partners (victims?). So there is sex which is "wrong" and more of that sort will not make the world better.


Education not censorship. Stop blaming criminal behavior on entertainment. Lots of people watch violent movies, play video games, watch porn, and they never do anything to harm others. People should be taught right from wrong, a good moral compass to guide them. A lot of people are born with at least a conscience and a general desire to not harm others.

Enforcing censorship and repressing sexuality as well as violence in fictional stories doesn't work. If anything it makes things worse because you're not allowing people to fully express their thoughts (good and bad) through art. All you're saying is repression, repression, repression.
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Hiroki not Takuya



Joined: 17 Apr 2012
Posts: 1174
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 11:01 pm Reply with quote
^Not blaming criminal behavior on "entertainment", just pointing out the facts that if people are told repeatedly that something is OK and there aren't repercussions to doing them, as said "entertainment" intends to show, they will tend to do those more. If you want to reduce the number of people doing something, let them know by public announcement that people in society don't think it's OK and will ensure repercussions to doing those things. Only the most stubborn won't reconsider doing those things when they think to do them. That's not repression, it's called law.

Well, maybe repression of lawlessness. But you are right that before getting to that point, people should be embracing morality and teaching that. However, to throw the point back, plenty of people do what they know is "wrong" but won't if they are fairly certain they will be caught and punished if they do them which is why Thailand is a hotbed for expatriated American pedophiles. They aren't there because they really like Pad Thai. Law embodies morality and is the last line of societal defense.
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Lord Oink



Joined: 06 Jul 2016
Posts: 876
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 12:25 am Reply with quote
Shopify being Canadian probably has a big deal to do with it. They have very strict and terrible laws up there with this stuff.

Seeing drama like this is why I only deal with imported manga with Japanese outlets like Melon Books, Toranoana and DLsite. American/Canadian outlets seem so unprofessional and freak out over every little thing. It honestly should not take over 10 years for a series to find a way to get an actual release here after being licensed. But this one series has had to jump trough so many hoops over the decade+ here, from people protesting it to it being dropped by Seven Seas and stores. You can literally buy Kodomo no Jikan on Amazon in Japan. Not to mention bookstores everywhere. Crunchyroll streamed Lotte no Omocha, Uzumaid, Fate/kaleid liner PRISMA ILLYA, and plenty other loli series. It's no big deal anymore. I'd like to think we've matured beyond the point of being offended by it as we go into 2019. Wink
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Heishi



Joined: 06 Mar 2016
Posts: 970
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 2:50 am Reply with quote
Lord Oink wrote:
Shopify being Canadian probably has a big deal to do with it. They have very strict and terrible laws up there with this stuff.

Seeing drama like this is why I only deal with imported manga with Japanese outlets like Melon Books, Toranoana and DLsite. American/Canadian outlets seem so unprofessional and freak out over every little thing. It honestly should not take over 10 years for a series to find a way to get an actual release here after being licensed. But this one series has had to jump trough so many hoops over the decade+ here, from people protesting it to it being dropped by Seven Seas and stores. You can literally buy Kodomo no Jikan on Amazon in Japan. Not to mention bookstores everywhere. Crunchyroll streamed Lotte no Omocha, Uzumaid, Fate/kaleid liner PRISMA ILLYA, and plenty other loli series. It's no big deal anymore. I'd like to think we've matured beyond the point of being offended by it as we go into 2019. Wink


I do wonder if making a loli x loli yuri series will stir up even worse controversy than Kodomo no Jikan ever did.
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Psycho 101
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Joined: 14 Aug 2006
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Location: The Bannered Mare
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:03 pm Reply with quote
This is not going to turn into another off topic broad lolicon or sexual content/freedom of speech debate.
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Stuart Smith



Joined: 13 Jan 2013
Posts: 1298
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:08 pm Reply with quote
Heishi wrote:
I do wonder if making a loli x loli yuri series will stir up even worse controversy than Kodomo no Jikan ever did.


Anime which fall under that criteria have been licensed and released in America with little or no fanfare, so I would say probably not. I think at this point it's just that Kodomo no Jikan has become so infamous as a name. To be honest, it's not even that explicit, especially compared to more modern series which have far more explicit lolicon fanservice and scenes in them. So for it to still to be considered so taboo and controversial really makes me think it's more about the perceived reputation or myth surrounding the series.

-Stuart Smith
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