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angelmcazares
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:22 pm Reply with quote
There have been constant complains about the quality of subtitles in the anime that Netflix has. I don't necessarily believe that the circumstances behind Evangelion's localization are unique.
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Kicksville



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:22 pm Reply with quote
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As for what happened with Evangelion, I honestly think that a lot of complaints about the final product are rooted in nostalgia for previous translations, and a lack of understanding of linguistic subtleties. But that said, there are definitely some choices made in the Netflix versions that no native English speaker would make.

That seems to about sum it up. I am genuinely bothered by how people are choosing to create super bad guys to attack over this whole thing...it's exhausting.
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#HayamiLover



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:36 pm Reply with quote
angelmcazares wrote:
There have been constant complains about the quality of subtitles in the anime that Netflix has. I don't necessarily believe that the circumstances behind Evangelion's localization are unique.


This is not the first such case, and as far as I can judge from Russian translations, this “problem” is wider than any language barriers. For example, the Kaworu case is already the third love / like case in the last year, not to mention the eternal controversy surrounding daisuki. I am so used to this that lately I have only reacted to serious translation errors.
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Marzan



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:39 pm Reply with quote
Evangelion will always get the hysterical attention it gets from some fans due to its unique place in anime history. No two ways around it.

It's always hard to say as someone who's grasp of japanese is elementary at best, if something constitutes a good translation. Dub or sub. What linguistic/semantic concessions were made in order to ensure flow in the translated version? Does it alter the meaning significantly? For a show like Evangelion, being as literal as possible might not be the worst idea. The ADV translation (and the one in those old VHS tapes I first watched it in) might have had taken some liberties I cannot grasp.
That being said, I still think that something like the insistence in using the plural "Children" when referring to an individual is very odd. I'm sure that was not a professional translator's choice.
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samuelp



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:42 pm Reply with quote
angelmcazares wrote:
There have been constant complains about the quality of subtitles in the anime that Netflix has. I don't necessarily believe that the circumstances behind Evangelion's localization are unique.

Credits confirm the subs for Eva were done by Dan Kanemitsu, who has been employed by Khara since the rebuild movies to do all their subtitle tracks, so I think whatever issues there are in Eva's case _are_ unique and not related to other Netflix's in house subbing issues.

Except maybe the subtitle timing/lack of on screen text translations.
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Merxamers



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:47 pm Reply with quote
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Some demand approval over casting decisions for dubs.


Really? That's shocking to me. I'd always kinda assumed that the Japanese studios couldn't really care less about the english dub of their shows.
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Cardcaptor Takato



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:55 pm Reply with quote
Tiffany Grant also spoke up recently about the extreme oversight from Khara they had to work with on the 3.0 dub which if rumors are to be believed were due to the a rowdy con audience that disappointed Khara at a con premiere. https://twitter.com/chryco4/status/1142154028085911552 It's interesting to compare the extreme literalism Khara insisted on with their oversight over the Eva redub to Ghibli's oversight over the Disney dubs of their films which I feel like were generally more relaxed with taking liberties in the dub script even though Ghibli was very insistent that all changes had to be approved by them.

Last edited by Cardcaptor Takato on Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:59 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Ajc228



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:57 pm Reply with quote
Kicksville wrote:
Quote:
As for what happened with Evangelion, I honestly think that a lot of complaints about the final product are rooted in nostalgia for previous translations, and a lack of understanding of linguistic subtleties. But that said, there are definitely some choices made in the Netflix versions that no native English speaker would make.

That seems to about sum it up. I am genuinely bothered by how people are choosing to create super bad guys to attack over this whole thing...it's exhausting.

To piggyback on Justin’s quote, I think a lot of the complaints have been overblown. The translation is a bit literal and makes some awkward choices. However, I don’t think these decisions “RUIN” the anime or change the thematic content in any qualitative way. I would much rather watch the remastered footage than petulantly stamper off and claim the ADV translations are the one and true gospel. There is an art to smooth translation. I’m not saying the new one is perfect but it seems that people are getting a little hung up on mostly one line of dialogue that can be translated a couple different ways. I certainly believe some are mining the outrage for views and clicks. This is not to say there can’t be discussion about the matter. People have a lot of love for the show and relate to it on a deep emotional level, that’s great. But it seems they personalize it so much that won’t accept any variation in what they believe to be the “true” translation. There was no way the translator was going to please both his superiors at KHARA or the very particular fans.
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luisedgarf



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:06 pm Reply with quote
It should be noted that most of the problems behind the EVA's English dub are very specific from them, as other foreign dubs has their own quirks behind them.

As an example, while the Latin American Spanish used the English dub as proxy translation, at the end they did they own translation based from previous translations, outside the translation is somewhat inconsistent at times. It also helps they managed to bring most of the dub cast from previous dubs as much as they could. They same seem to happened to the Brazilian Portuguese dub as well.

On the other hand, the Italian dub was even more controversial and even worse than the English dub was, as the translation sounded archaic and stilted, as far what I managed to find from the net.
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AmpersandsUnited



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:58 pm Reply with quote
angelmcazares wrote:
There have been constant complains about the quality of subtitles in the anime that Netflix has. I don't necessarily believe that the circumstances behind Evangelion's localization are unique.


My only other experience with Netflix subs is Aggretsuko. The songs especially are not translated very well, if at all and instead they choose completely new lyrics. But Evangelion's is a case where people are mad because this time around it's more accurate to the Japanese script rather than defecting from it.
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TnKtRk



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:16 pm Reply with quote
Guess it's only the new English dub that had such oversight, since it seems the Spanish dub, in my opinion, is leagues better than the new English one. No "third children" or "I like you" in Spanish. Wonder what the other dubs are like?
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Zalis116
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:34 pm Reply with quote
Kicksville wrote:
That seems to about sum it up. I am genuinely bothered by how people are choosing to create super bad guys to attack over this whole thing...it's exhausting.
Indeed, it looks like many in the anime viewerbase with anti-industry attitudes are looking to make this incident fit the "Western infidels defile sacred cow" narrative that's been running since the days of 4Kids and all the 80s/90s made-for-TV dubs. I guess they just can't handle the truth that a beloved Japanese creator could ever make decisions that create unenjoyable results.

Merxamers wrote:
Really? That's shocking to me. I'd always kinda assumed that the Japanese studios couldn't really care less about the english dub of their shows.
That's part of another popular viewerbase narrative, namely "We don't really matter to Japan, we're just chump change to them (so it doesn't matter how we consume anime)"

luisedgarf wrote:
On the other hand, the Italian dub was even more controversial and even worse than the English dub was, as the translation sounded archaic and stilted, as far what I managed to find from the net.
I've seen some comments indicating that the Italian dub called the EVAs' foes "Apostles," rather than "Angels." Curiously, "Apostle" is a more accurate translation of the Japanese term used (shito / 使徒), so I'm surprised they stuck with "Angels" in English. Maybe because "Angels" appears in English in the opening?

Marzan wrote:
That being said, I still think that something like the insistence in using the plural "Children" when referring to an individual is very odd. I'm sure that was not a professional translator's choice.
They wanted ADV to use "Children" as well, back in the day. Matt Greenfield et al managed to talk them out of it in the late 90s, but they got their way this time.
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Cardcaptor Takato



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:41 pm Reply with quote
I can understand Anno's insisting on things like Kaworu's line and "Third Children" as more "accurate" even if I still don't personally like them, but what I don't understand are some of the weird oddities in the script, like Ritsuko referring to Misato's bad ramen noodles as "boil in the bed food," or Misato telling Shinji not to bother Pen-Pen's fridge because they "don't want to wake the sleeper." The script just often sounds like a very rough draft and you can tell this is made by someone not familiar with how most English speaking people talk in daily conversation.
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luisedgarf



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:44 pm Reply with quote
TnKtRk wrote:
Guess it's only the new English dub that had such oversight, since it seems the Spanish dub, in my opinion, is leagues better than the new English one. No "third children" or "I like you" in Spanish. Wonder what the other dubs are like?


Which one, the Latin American or the European one? I haven'r reached the final episodes yet.
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Primus



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:10 pm Reply with quote
Merxamers wrote:
Quote:
Some demand approval over casting decisions for dubs.


Really? That's shocking to me. I'd always kinda assumed that the Japanese studios couldn't really care less about the english dub of their shows.


The staff behind the flavour of the month anime probably doesn't care. But the prestige, vanity projects or big-name shows? The Japanese companies are usually involved. Sunrise sent some of their staff to Vancouver to oversee the dubbing of the original Mobile Suit Gundam and that was back in like 2000. It's even easier for them to be involved nowadays.
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